My neice is playing online games with occult themes?

[ZhaneAugustine]

This is a funny thread. I suspect that those decrying fantasy and saying “Zelda is OK” are just looking for reactions.

Either that or the don’t know what they’re taling about with ‘occultic things and images.’

Let’s look at Zelda. Again, Link and Zelda are both Elves. They’re helped by fairies. The game itself is created by Japan, an Eastern Nation. All of this means that Link, Zelda and fairies are demons, again those supernatural beings that are can be either good or evil, accurding to Oriental thinking. So for the anti fantasy set who like Zelda, strike one.

Look at what Link uses. A magical shield, (true it has a cross on it, but its called a magic shield in some cases, meaning the cross has given it magical powers of defense, meaning supersition). He uses magical fire… a MAGIC WAND to produce some fire after getting a SPELL BOOK. Lets not forget the all important rings of blue and red, and of course the all important silver arrows. ALL magic. Here’s strike two.

Look at the third cave. Its a Manji! Which is an East Indian mystical symbol. If you get your pants in a knot because of the star of david, you should definately get upset at the Manji. (At least the Star of David has some Judeo-Christian element to it, unlike the Manji). So Strike Three for you Zelda loving, anti fantasy folks.

If you are worried about Harry Potter or cautious about him because of said magics and such, or Wizards 101, then you must also be cautious or worried about Zelda.

 

[ZhaneAugustine]

I’d be curious to see how many kids who’ve read Harry Potter discover magick (note spelling) as a real-world practice and decide to take it up…only to find out to their discouragement, that it’s a lot more complicated than pointing a stick at something, yelling a Latin-derived word at it and expecting things to happen.

Not only this, but numerous Druidic and Wiccan and Witch groups in England protested the movie because Harry Potter doesn’t even use spells correctly OR ride the broom stick the correct way.

 

[ringil]

Either that or the don’t know what they’re taling about with ‘occultic things and images.’

Let’s look at Zelda. Again, Link and Zelda are both Elves. They’re helped by fairies. The game itself is created by Japan, an Eastern Nation. All of this means that Link, Zelda and fairies are demons, again those supernatural beings that are can be either good or evil, accurding to Oriental thinking. So for the anti fantasy set who like Zelda, strike one.

Look at what Link uses. A magical shield, (true it has a cross on it, but its called a magic shield in some cases, meaning the cross has given it magical powers of defense, meaning supersition). He uses magical fire… a MAGIC WAND to produce some fire after getting a SPELL BOOK. Lets not forget the all important rings of blue and red, and of course the all important silver arrows. ALL magic. Here’s strike two.

Look at the third cave. Its a Manji! Which is an East Indian mystical symbol. If you get your pants in a knot because of the star of david, you should definately get upset at the Manji. (At least the Star of David has some Judeo-Christian element to it, unlike the Manji). So Strike Three for you Zelda loving, anti fantasy folks.

If you are worried about Harry Potter or cautious about him because of said magics and such, or Wizards 101, then you must also be cautious or worried about Zelda.

But you are fighting to defeat Gannon who is. . . .A PIG! Like in SATAN!

So, Zelda’s got to good then. . . . right?

 

[ZhaneAugustine]

But you are fighting to defeat Gannon who is. . . .A PIG! Like in SATAN!

So, Zelda’s got to good then. . . . right?

Maybe so, but you’re still using magic. God’s not workjing through you. There’s nothing that says that in the game. God doesn’t give you the magic sword, not does it say it comes from a deity.

The magic comes from a book and a staff to make fire. No where on the book is there Holy cross or words to make us believe its the Bible. Its just a spell book, that can help you summon fire.

Now if you went to the extreme you could condemn that. But if you take it in stride. Then fine.

Voldemort has a short, flat nose. He’s almost demonic looking. So one could say he is a symbol of Satan just as one could say Ganon is. If its okay for Link to use magic to defeat a form of Satan why is it not Harry?

 

[ringil]

I hope it’s clear that I’m kidding. I don’t worry about the “occult” in video games or even fiction for that matter.

Folks just find some random aspect of a book or a game to target and say "EVIL!.

Like LOTR, which I LOVE (book more so than movie, but anyway) LOTR is always considered fine and kosher, but Harry Potter (which I’ve never read) is considered evil. They both feature magic but one is evil and the other fine.

It’s all silliness.

You know what books have “occult themes”? OCCULT BOOKS! Not fantasy for kids and adults. . . Geez. . . . Folks need to calm down. The devil isn’t around every corner unless you put him there. . . . . . .

 

[ZhaneAugustine]

I hope it’s clear that I’m kidding. I don’t worry about the “occult” in video games or even fiction for that matter.

Folks just find some random aspect of a book or a game to target and say "EVIL!.

Like LOTR, which I LOVE (book more so than movie, but anyway) LOTR is always considered fine and kosher, but Harry Potter (which I’ve never read) is considered evil. They both feature magic but one is evil and the other fine.

It’s all silliness.

You know what books have “occult themes”? OCCULT BOOKS! Not fantasy for kids and adults. . . Geez. . . . Folks need to calm down. The devil isn’t around every corner unless you put him there. . . . . . .

No I knew you were kidding.
But someonelse might not. So I wanted to throw in some of those points that I did.

I’m on the edge. If a fiction book is clearly trying to get one to do something they shouldn’t than of course its wrong and possibly evil. I’ll go back to the Golden Compass. Clearly pro atheism. The author was quoted that he hoped those kids who read it would turn from religion. Thus though fiction it was a “pulpit fic”.

Harry Potter however has never tried to get kids to denounce normal relgion for sake of magic and the such.

 

[ElectricBlue]

It’s important for kids to be aware of the distiction between fantasy and reality I think. It is clear to me that the occult themes and stuff are very present in some games just as christian themes are also. I think the danger to the young and impressionable ones is that because their consciences may not be formed properly and so they can be led the wrong path without guidance. I think that any games which require the player to commit gravely sinful acts to win should be off limits to kids. It can be teaching the worng value system am I right.

 

[kinja]

To be fair, I don’t know much about Wizard101, but I did sign up to play it when I saw this thread. I’m–get this—an “Ice Wizard”, belonging to the school of “Ice.”

On the surface, this game looks totally innocent—maybe even cartoonish.

I think the only reason to condemn this game is if you have condemned science altogether. I mean, what in the world is the niece learning in school/Church/from parents that “magical ice spells” or whatever are thought to be something even remotely possible???

We don’t live in the middle ages. This child should be informed that you cannot just wake up one day and cast magical spells - defying the scientific laws of God’s universe. Having to even explain this makes me feel like I’m trapped in the Twilight Zone or something. Spells, really? Spells?

I don’t think she is the only one suffereing from a severe case of “escapism”. Some people on CAF have the same condition except that they “seem” to be able to separate fantasy from reality but seem to like spending an unhealthy amount of time in the former.

That said it’s not that I think that anyone can simply wake up one morning and casts spells but I do not think that her belief in the efficacy of magic spells is so absurd. Frankly the same can easily be said by non Catholics about transubstantiation and the eucharist or Peter walking on water to Jesus, Moses parting the Red Sea, Jesus’ ascension into Heaven, the Holy Spirit descending at pentecost, the talking donkey and Balaam. The list is rather exhaustive and those who choose to disbelieve or believe in all these things are well within their right to do so. Whether we believe that spells have any effect or not is irrelevent to what someone else believes so we should not scoff at it I think. The point is that using them is forbidden, as are all occult practices, by God. End of story.

 

[kinja]

No, it doesn’t. It proves that the symbol has more than one connotation.

First off, that’s not a “logical inconsistency” it’s just an inconsistency.

Second, symbols are like words. They can have more than one meaning. When a word has more than one meaning, you don’t conclude “that’s enough to destroy the inherent value of the word.” You say “this word has more than one meaning.”

Exactly. You’re proving my point now…

Uh huh…

Actually, we (or rather you and thisone35) were talking about the goat’s head in the pentagram (Sigil of Baphomet), not just any pentagram.

But no matter, both are associated with the devil, both historically, and in fiction and gaming.

Right. It’s proven that there’s more than one meaning. One of them being black/demonic.

Yes to all the above. Some don’t see and others choose to ignore. The net effect is the same: evil gets more of a foothold as the “good” pretend that it does not exist and is not pervasive.

Have you played a game called Uncharted 3 yet by the way? I am playing it now and the amount of occult themes and concepts I have seen in the last few chapters I’ve played are unmistakeable. Don’t get me wrong. I think the game is very entertaining and so far the protagonist does not appear to be involved in anything occult but he has been uncovering occult things incidentally.

Now the game has everything from secret societies, John Dee and Aleister Crowley’s hexagram to the concept of duality and the “As above so below” quote. The seven pointed star (heptagram) from Kabbalah and the OTO. Hemaphroditism and duality and the gnostic and occult undertones and overtones in the game are pretty obvious.

Skeptics may say that the symbols have meaning in non-occult or christian contexts and they would be right. However if the symbols are taken all together along with the words and concepts as presented in the game it becomes obvious that occult concepts are what are being presented here and not christianity.

 

[Matrix_Refugee]

Not only this, but numerous Druidic and Wiccan and Witch groups in England protested the movie because Harry Potter doesn’t even use spells correctly OR ride the broom stick the correct way.

Now that’s a new one! I’ve heard of Christians protesting HP, but this is the first time I’ve heard of pagans objecting to it.

 

[kinja]

Now that’s a new one! I’ve heard of Christians protesting HP, but this is the first time I’ve heard of pagans objecting to it.

I think that based on both the contents of the book AND what Rowling herself is claimed to have said, many Christians have a right and reason to disprove and object to the HP literature.

I read an article by one “ex-witch”. She said that words like "Erised, Hermes and Draco among others used in the HP series are names of familiar spirits or demons witch could be conjoured or “worked with” by witches in real life.

Also this is enought to get any responsible Catholic parent at least very concerned.

In her own words in an interview, author J.K.Rowling admitted that she studied witchcraft and mythology in order to write her books more accurately. She said, “I do a certain amount of research, so when I’m mentioning a creature, or a spell, I will find out exactly what the words were, and find out exactly what the characteristics of that creature or ghost were supposed to be.” She went on to say that about one-third of what she had written is based on actual occultism. (J.K. Rowling interview on The Diane Rehm Show, WAMU, NPR, 10/20/99)

 

[kinja]

Now that’s a new one! I’ve heard of Christians protesting HP, but this is the first time I’ve heard of pagans objecting to it.

 

[Fone_Bone_2001]

I read an article by one “ex-witch”. She said that words like "Erised, Hermes and Draco among others used in the HP series are names of familiar spirits or demons witch could be conjoured or “worked with” by witches in real life.

“Erised” is “desire” spelled backwards. The “Mirror of Erised” in the first book shows you what you most desire. No spirits involved.

“Hermes” is a Greek god. People need to learn the difference between reality and fantasy.

“Draco” I’m not sure of off the top of my head, but given that the HP character who bears the name is just a normal person, I don’t see what the problem is.

There is nothing wrong with Harry Potter, which - as the actual context of various Rowling interviews establishes - bases its “magic” on strictly symbolic literary alchemy. There’s nothing occult in it whatsoever.

 

[ZhaneAugustine]

It’s important for kids to be aware of the distiction between fantasy and reality I think. It is clear to me that the occult themes and stuff are very present in some games just as christian themes are also. I think the danger to the young and impressionable ones is that because their consciences may not be formed properly and so they can be led the wrong path without guidance. I think that any games which require the player to commit gravely sinful acts to win should be off limits to kids. It can be teaching the worng value system am I right.

Bingo

 

[ZhaneAugustine]

I think that based on both the contents of the book AND what Rowling herself is claimed to have said, many Christians have a right and reason to disprove and object to the HP literature.

I read an article by one “ex-witch”. She said that words like "Erised, Hermes and Draco among others used in the HP series are names of familiar spirits or demons witch could be conjoured or “worked with” by witches in real life.

Also this is enought to get any responsible Catholic parent at least very concerned.

While I can understand concern it must be mixed with caution and rational thinking as well. Or least it becomes superstition.
Her series is based in witchcraft and wizards. So obviously as a writer she’d need to see how certain words/familiars/ghosts, etc. Were used and henchforth. What is needed to be wary of, is if she showed the ‘exact’ ritual from such books and put them in her stories. That can be dangerous and should be very WORRYSOME.

But speaking as a writer, the fact that she looked all of this up doesn’t concern me to the point of throwing it all out the window. I do the same things when I write either history or ghost stories.

 

[ZhaneAugustine]

Now that’s a new one! I’ve heard of Christians protesting HP, but this is the first time I’ve heard of pagans objecting to it.

I read it in my newspaper just as the first movie was coming out, I believe.

 

[Barbkw]

Hello,

my neice is playing online games that have strong occult themes, and I just found out that there is going to be a harry potter game online. It’s going to be called “Pottermore”. My 12 year old neice has a strong interest in the occult. She has expressed desires to become a wizard in real life. She spends all day on the computer playing Wizard101, which is her favorite game, and is forever saying she wishes there was a harry potter games. She talks about if she could do magic in real life, and this scares me. With the internet I’m not sure what she’s getting into. Should I be worried? If she did get into occult websites, would she hurt me? We’ve had a bumpy relationship, and everytime I try to talk to her about religion she seems to get unsettled. Ideas?

Thanks

Continue to remind her of reality and the differences between reality and the occult world and the magic that Harry Potter displays.

She’s in 6th grade and has probably explored the internet enough to begin believing in the seduction and delusion of magick.

Harry Potter and Wicca are the appropriate “marriage of ideas” for lonely young people on computers.

Once her hormones kick in, she’ll begin gravitating more and more toward magick and Wicca in order to push aside Christ and His Commandments.

 

[ZhaneAugustine]

Continue to remind her of reality and the differences between reality and the occult world and the magic that Harry Potter displays.

She’s in 6th grade and has probably explored the internet enough to begin believing in the seduction and delusion of magick.

Harry Potter and Wicca are the appropriate “marriage of ideas” for lonely young people on computers.

Once her hormones kick in, she’ll begin gravitating more and more toward magick and Wicca in order to push aside Christ and His Commandments.

Well I don’t know about lonely people on the computer and Wicca. But Magick especailly dark magick is definately alluring to younger people.

Not all Wiccan’s practicise dark magick. In fact, no Wiccan I’ve ever spoken to practises it. NOT THAT I AGREE with them using magic at all. But most here Wicca and think evil. Which, while its not Christianity, its not. Any more than Buddhism or Hinduism. At least not ALL EVIL.

There ARE some ammounts of TRUTH in ALL faiths. Pagan faiths included.

A parent or guardian just needs to set boundaries, let them have the fantasy without letting that fantasy come into reality.

 

[Baelor]

Draco is Latin for serpent/snake.

 

[Sonic]

brgregmack,

As has been pointed out before on CAF threads about Harry Potter, Michael O’Brian’s literary criticism on this topic is laughable. Here’s the original post about the very similar book A Landscape with Dragons (by DGDDavidson, I believe):

You should really check the accuracy of a post before citing it to bolster an argument. I’ve just finished reading A Landscape with Dragons. Unfortunately, DGDDavidson’s evaluation is not based on fact, and people should refrain from using it.

I’m prepared to prove my statements, and I have the citations from the book that contradict this evaluation.

Edit: I don’t want to overwhelm this topic with fifteen pages of citations that would disrupt the current topic (as that would be against forum rules). I can share this information over private message if needed.