My Position on Homosexuality

[cynic]

kev7:

It is not God that gives us a sexual desire. It was our choice to have this desire.

.

What your saying could be applied to married people -that those couples who choose to have relations and focus on each other, even on purely intimate emotional level, are indulging in carnal desires.

 

[dennisknapp]

kev7:

It is not God that gives us a sexual desire. It was our choice to have this desire. That is why we live in the carnal world.

It is too God that gives us sexual desire. He created us that way, “be fruitful and multiply.”

What we do is take that proper desire and make it into something base and inhuman.

Peace

 

[kev7]

Gnosis:

Some of you here are choking on your own arguments, when you assert that practicing homosexuality equates to suicidal genocide, or that practicing homosexuality is preventing life from taking place you are becoming starkly hypocritical.

I am told that I should be chaste. There are people on this site who have said that they are attracted to the same sex and they stay chaste to ‘honor God’ in what I believe to be a kind of spiritual stockholm syndrome. And Priests themselves take a vow of chastity!

Is the Church then, by telling certain people to refrain from sex, not participating in this so called suicidal genocide? Is it not preventing life? If everyone imitated the priesthood, the human race would also be extinct. So therefore, chastity poses the same threat to survival as does homosexuality

The church is focused on helping people attain eternal life in union with Christ. When a man makes the choice to become a priest he rejects the truth of this world and stays focused on the next. A priest has a responsiblty to care for and defend life when others do not. He provides hope and faith which is the very source of life. He brings people togeather in holy matrimony which is a seed of life… By not having a wife and childeren he is able to stay focused on the word of God. The act of chastity keeps him right with God because Christ is all he has to turn to. Not everyone can and should imitate the priest hood. Very few are able to carry such a cross. We must how ever show respect for those who do.

Chastity never hurt anyone. Infact it is very important to life.
The act of chasisty prevents sexual deseses which cause death. In fact, if everyone was a practicing catholic AIDS would not exist anymore. You only have to look at the work that mother Teresa did in this regard to know that the teachings of the church are true.

Chastity also helps people stay focused on the truth of the holy family. A family consists of a wife and husband that truely love each other. Chastity helps them both understand why they are togeather and look past their sexual desires.

Blessed are those who have faith in Christ and are focus on true love. It is hard to live in a world that is obsessed with sex. It is even harder to hear the truth when love is blurred with the carnal sexual act.

 

[kev7]

dennisknapp:

It is too God that gives us sexual desire. He created us that way, “be fruitful and multiply.”

What we do is take that proper desire and make it into something base and inhuman.

Peace

I don’t agree. God created us in spirt first. This spirt was capable of creating life. There is the spirtual version of a man and there is a spirtual version of a woman. It was only when we accepted the knowledge of good and evil that we aquired our carnal body, sexual organs and with it the knowledge of sex.

 

[dennisknapp]

kev7:

It is even harder to hear the truth when love is blurred with the carnal sexual act.

Can you define what you mean by “carnal sexual act?” Is the relationship a husband has with his wife carnal? Accord to the Church it is holy.

Peace

 

[kev7]

cynic:

What your saying could be applied to married people -that those couples who choose to have relations and focus on each other, even on purely intimate emotional level, are indulging in carnal desires.

Yes I am saying that exactly. Even as married people we must always make sure that our sexual acts have purpose.

You see, we have to prove to God that we want to be with him again. We are the ones that have to learn and accept God now that we have the knowledge of Good and Evil.

We can only pray that God will have mercy on us and that we have done our best to stay focused on the Next world and not this one.

 

[dennisknapp]

kev7:

I don’t agree. God created us in spirt first. This spirt was capable of creating life. There is the spirtual version of a man and there is a spirtual version of a woman. It was only when we accepted the knowledge of good and evil that we aquired our carnal body, sexual organs and with it the knowledge of sex.

Where do you get this? We were created as physical beings with a spirit. When we die our spirits leave our body and wait to be reunited at the Resurrection.

This is why Christ came in the flesh, for we are flesh. God reached out to us with hands of flesh and body. Creation is good, sex is good. It is we who turn things that were meant for good to bad purposes. Does not Genesis say that God created the earth and it was good?

Peace

 

[kev7]

dennisknapp:

Can you define what you mean by “carnal sexual act?” Is the relationship a husband has with his wife carnal? Accord to the Church it is holy.

Peace

The relationship a wife has with her husband (in this world) sometimes consists of a carnal act. There is no question about that.

But, it is important to understand that inorder for that act to be right in the eyes of God it must be based on spirtual love. In other words, it can’t be for the purpose of carnal pleasure alone. It must be for the purpose of unconditional love and it should always be open to the gift of life.

 

[dennisknapp]

kev7:

We can only pray that God will have mercy on us and that we have done our best to stay focused on the Next world and not this one.

There is value in both worlds, for God created this one too. You seem to be having a problem distinguishing between God’s good creation and the actions we do against it. God created all things good, we make them evil.

That is why this discussion of homosexuality is so important. It shows to what lengths we will go to justify our behavior and twist that which God made pure and good into something evil.

Peace

 

[kev7]

dennisknapp:

Where do you get this? We were created as physical beings with a spirit. When we die our spirits leave our body and wait to be reunited at the Resurrection.

This is why Christ came in the flesh, for we are flesh. God reached out to us with hands of flesh and body. Creation is good, sex is good. It is we who turn things that were meant for good to bad purposes. Does not Genesis say that God created the earth and it was good?

Peace

We are flesh because we disobeyed God. When God first created us we where with him and we experienced his love. Death did not exist at that time. Only when we chose the knowledge of good and evil did we take on the burdens of the flesh.

God loved us so much that he gave us his son Jesus and became flesh so that he could help show us the path back to God.

 

[dennisknapp]

kev7:

The relationship a wife has with her husband (in this world) sometimes consists of a carnal act. There is no question about that.

But, it is important to understand that inorder for that act to be right in the eyes of God it must be based on spirtual love. In other words, it can’t be for the purpose of carnal pleasure alone. It must be for the purpose of unconditional love and it should always be open to the gift of life.

I agree that sex must be life giving for the purpose of unconditional love, but this would make it not carnal but holy.

Peace

 

[kev7]

dennisknapp:

There is value in both worlds, for God created this one too. You seem to be having a problem distinguishing between God’s good creation and the actions we do against it. God created all things good, we make them evil.

That is why this discussion of homosexuality is so important. It shows to what lengths we will go to justify our behavior and twist that which God made pure and good into something evil.

Peace

I think that God created this world to protect us from ourselves. Imagine what kind of chaos there would be if we did not have the the limitations that we have. Imagine what kind of place the kingdom of God would be if everyone within could do anything, know anything, know the truth, reject the truth, and act on any pleasure on a whim. I guess we would be like satan and his fallen angels.

 

[dennisknapp]

kev7:

We are flesh because we disobeyed God. When God first created us we where with him and we experienced his love. Death did not exist at that time. Only when we chose the knowledge of good and evil did we take on the burdens of the flesh.

God loved us so much that he gave us his son Jesus and became flesh so that he could help show us the path back to God.

Where do you get that we were not flesh at our creation? According to Genesis, God formed us out of clay and breathed the life into us thereby giving us a spirit. Where does it teach anywhere is Scripture or Tradition that we were created as spirits and gained our bodies because of our fall?

Peace

 

[kev7]

kev7:

The church is focused on helping people attain eternal life in union with Christ. When a man makes the choice to become a priest he rejects the truth of this world and stays focused on the next. A priest has a responsiblty to care for and defend life when others do not. He provides hope and faith which is the very source of life. He brings people togeather in holy matrimony which is a seed of life… By not having a wife and childeren he is able to stay focused on the word of God. The act of chastity keeps him right with God because Christ is all he has to turn to. Not everyone can and should imitate the priest hood. Very few are able to carry such a cross. We must how ever show respect for those who do.

Chastity never hurt anyone. Infact it is very important to life.
The act of chastity prevents sexual diseases which cause death. In fact, if everyone was a practicing catholic AIDS would not exist anymore. You only have to look at the work that mother Teresa did in this regard to know that the teachings of the church are true.

Chastity also helps people stay focused on the truth of the holy family. A family consists of a wife and husband that truely love each other. Chastity helps them both understand why they are togeather and look past their sexual desires.

Blessed are those who have faith in Christ and are focus on true love. It is hard to live in a world that is obsessed with sex. It is even harder to hear the truth when love is blurred with the carnal sexual act.

 

[dennisknapp]

kev7:

I think that God created this world to protect us from ourselves. Imagine what kind of chaos there would be if we did not have the the limitations that we have. Imagine what kind of place the kingdom of God would be if everyone within could do anything, know anything, know the truth, reject the truth, and act on any pleasure on a whim. I guess we would be like satan and his fallen angels.

God created this world because He wanted too. He created us to be part of it and to care for it. We were meant to be caretakers of God’s good creation, but instead we rebelled and have done anything but take care of this wonderful place God made good.

Peace

 

[kev7]

dennisknapp:

God created this world because He wanted too. He created us to be part of it and to care for it. We were meant to be caretakers of God’s good creation, but instead we rebelled and have done anything but take care of this wonderful place God made good.

Peace

You are right that we accepted the temptations of satan. But death did not exist before we fell from grace.
Death is part of this world now because of us. The bad choice that we made changed our world accordingly.

Why do you think adam and eve covered their sexual organs infront of God?

It was because they where ashamed with the choice that they made. Part of that choice was to experience carnal pleasures. They realized that their carnal pleasures mocked procreation in the manner that God had originally blessed us with. That is what satan wanted. He wanted to mock God and he Got us to do it.

It is very clear that the world that God put us in when he first created us was completely changed when we commited the sin.

 

[dennisknapp]

kev7:

You are right that we accepted the temptations of satan. But death did not exist before we fell from grace.
Death is part of this world now because of us. The bad choice that we made changed our world accordingly.

Why do you think adam and eve covered their sexual organs infront of God?

It was because they where ashamed with the choice that they made. Part of that choice was to experience carnal pleasures. They realized that their carnal pleasures mocked procreation in the manner that God had originally blessed us with. That is what satan wanted. He wanted to mock God and he Got us to do it.

It is very clear that the world that God put us in when he first created us was completely changed when we commited the sin.

Ok, but where do you get that we were spirit at our creation and not flesh as it is recorded in Genesis?

Peace

 

[kev7]

dennisknapp:

Ok, but where do you get that we were spirit at our creation and not flesh as it is recorded in Genesis?

Peace

God created us in his own image. Our God is a spirtual being. Out of love God reached out to us through his only son Jesus and then became flesh.

God only had to become flesh because we became carnal beings through our own sin.

When we die we will be with God as he originally created us.

What I am trying to say is that the flesh that we have now is not the flesh that God created us with.

 

[dennisknapp]

kev7:

God created us in his own image. Our God is a spirtual being. Out of love God reached out to us through his only son Jesus and then became flesh.

God only had to become flesh because we became carnal beings through our own sin.

When we die we will be with God as he originally created us.

What I am trying to say is that the flesh that we have now is not the flesh that God created us with.

I understand what you are saying. I am just curious where you learned this from. This is not what the Scriptures or Tradition teaches.

Peace

 

[kev7]

here is a good quote to help with this thread.

Romans 8:5-8

"Those who live as their human nature tells them to have their minds controlled by what human nature wants. Those who live as the spirt tells them to have their minds controlled by what the spirt wants. To be controlled by human nature results in death; to be controlled by what the spirt wants results in life.and peace.
And so when a person becomes and enemy of God he is controlled by his human nature; for he does not obey Gods law, and infact cannot obey it. Those who obey their human nature cannot please God. "

We can only have great respect for those who have problems with what their human nature is telling them (ie SSA).
Those who live in lust and through carnal pleasures live by their human nature and do not live by their spirt.