My Spiritual Journey

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Edwin1961:
I’m sure you know very well Jeff that with Baptists, you’re gonna need to use the Bible only. Baptists won’t consider any outside material than the Bible. And about the books that the Protestant Churches took out of their Bible, you won’t be able to use them, for they don’t recognize them as books in the Bible.
Pray about what you find and you’ll be fine!
I’ll definitely pray about it. I was wondering, though, do Baptists look into church history at all? I was just wondering because I’ve done quite a bit of independent study of church history, and it’s overwhelmingly Catholic. I’ve come to the conclusion that Baptists either don’t bother with church history or they have their own alternate interpretation of it. Any insights?
 
I saw it was on (5pm my time, I live in California), but I couldn’t watch it because my kids are too young to hear a frank discussion about sex. My 2 year old probably wouldn’t get it, actually, but its TMI for my 9 year old. I don’t know if I have mentioned I am a mommy before, come to think of it! I am 5 months pregnant with #3.
It’s on at 1 am EST, so maybe you can set your VCR too. Also, congratualtions on #1, 2, and 3! 🙂
That is very interesting. I expect it out here. We speak some Spanish around the house(not very well!) just to get our kids familiar with the sound of the language, and my 9 year old is in public school learning Spanish too!
Yes, I would expect it in places like Florida, California, and the Southwest too. I never expected it here, though. I hear Spanish spoken in public just as much as I do English, and that’s not an exaggeration at all. I like it. It gives this area a nice multicultural flavor.
 
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jbsmith:
I’ll definitely pray about it. I was wondering, though, do Baptists look into church history at all? I was just wondering because I’ve done quite a bit of independent study of church history, and it’s overwhelmingly Catholic. I’ve come to the conclusion that Baptists either don’t bother with church history or they have their own alternate interpretation of it. Any insights?
On the journey home, I once listened to a Baptist minister who became catholic after his search into Church History. He siad he was teaching a class at his church about how they were practicing the religion of the church that Jesus founded, and he was going to compare his religion to two non Christian religions, so he chose to compare the Baptist faith with the Muslim faith and Catholic Faith. HaHa! What a discovery that was!

excerptsofinri.com/baptist.html

At the bottom of the page if you follow this link you will find a whole bunch of shows that may give you particular insight on the flaws of the Baptist faith.
 
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beckyann2597:
On the journey home, I once listened to a Baptist minister who became catholic after his search into Church History. He siad he was teaching a class at his church about how they were practicing the religion of the church that Jesus founded, and he was going to compare his religion to two non Christian religions, so he chose to compare the Baptist faith with the Muslim faith and Catholic Faith. HaHa! What a discovery that was!

excerptsofinri.com/baptist.html

At the bottom of the page if you follow this link you will find a whole bunch of shows that may give you particular insight on the flaws of the Baptist faith.
I have to say, that is funny! God has a sense of humor sometimes! 🙂 Thanks for the link. It’s time for bed now, but I’ll look it up in the morning. God bless!
 
Okay, so I didn’t go to bed. 🙂 I couldn’t wait until tomorrow to watch the show, so I stayed up to watch it tonight. It was very good and inspiring. After watching it, though, I have some questions I’m hoping some of you can answer:
  1. The man who came out of the gay lifestyle obviously wasn’t Catholic, since he kept talking about praying to receive Christ. The host of the show didn’t seem to mind the man’s Protestant theology. (Of course I realize that wasn’t the focus of the show.) Anyway, I was just wondering, how does the Catholic Church view Protestants? Before I left the heretical parish here, the RCIA teacher told us that Protestants are heretics. Does the Church believe that Protestants are going to Hell, or will most likely go to Hell? Does the Church believe that Protestants are saved?
  2. Okay, my second question. I was under the impression that the Church believed that people who experience SSA must live celibate lives, never getting married. However, this man was married with two children. The Catholic host of the show didn’t seem to have a problem with this. Does the Church believe that everyone who comes out of the gay lifestyle must live celibate lives, or does the Church believe that one can actually change and enter into a heterosexual marriage?
That’s all. Anyone who can answer, please feel free. And Rebecca: Thanks again for telling me about this show. I’m glad I watched it. Did you get to see it?
 
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jbsmith:
Okay, so I didn’t go to bed. 🙂 I couldn’t wait until tomorrow to watch the show, so I stayed up to watch it tonight. It was very good and inspiring. After watching it, though, I have some questions I’m hoping some of you can answer:
  1. The man who came out of the gay lifestyle obviously wasn’t Catholic, since he kept talking about praying to receive Christ. The host of the show didn’t seem to mind the man’s Protestant theology. (Of course I realize that wasn’t the focus of the show.) Anyway, I was just wondering, how does the Catholic Church view Protestants? Before I left the heretical parish here, the RCIA teacher told us that Protestants are heretics. Does the Church believe that Protestants are going to Hell, or will most likely go to Hell? Does the Church believe that Protestants are saved?
Its like this…non catholic churches have some of the Truth, but we believe that the Catholic Church has the fullness of Truth. Protestants are saved, if they are living for Christ to the best of their knowledge. More on this later…
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jbsmith:
  1. Okay, my second question. I was under the impression that the Church believed that people who experience SSA must live celibate lives, never getting married. However, this man was married with two children. The Catholic host of the show didn’t seem to have a problem with this. Does the Church believe that everyone who comes out of the gay lifestyle must live celibate lives, or does the Church believe that one can actually change and enter into a heterosexual marriage?
If you have SSA, you cannot live with another person of the same sex and be in a sexual relationship. If you are only attracted to people of the same sex, you must live a celibate lifestyle. You are, however, able to get married and have kids in a hetrosexual relationship. From your back story, it seems to me that you could truly fall in love with a women, get married, and have lots of babies. God doesn’t want to punish you. He wants you to be happy, we just have got to do it according to his grand plan.
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jbsmith:
That’s all. Anyone who can answer, please feel free. And Rebecca: Thanks again for telling me about this show. I’m glad I watched it. Did you get to see it?
I didn’t get to watch it. my youngest was awake and I was taking care of her. We sat on the couch and watched cartoons. I will try to catch a rerun later this week. I’m glad you watched it and enjoyed it.
 
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jbsmith:
Before I left the heretical parish here, the RCIA teacher told us that Protestants are heretics.
Sorry, couldn’t let this go just yet. the actual definition of Heretic is
A person who holds controversial opinions, especially one who publicly dissents from the officially accepted dogma of the Roman Catholic Church.
So any of the democrats who are self proclaimed Catholics are heretics too because they are outspokenly Pro Abortion–they are living and acting contrary to Catholic teaching.
 
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jbsmith:
That’s interesting. All Bibles, regardless of language, have to be approved by the Magesterium, correct? Also, what about the Catholic Study Bible, New American Bible? Is that a good one?
The Revised Standard Version - Catholic Edition is a great Bible too. It has some of the ‘old’ language (thees and thous) but the words used is VERY close to the original text (translated to English of course).

RSV-Catholic Edition is because it has ALL the Books of the Bible.
 
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jbsmith:
I’ll definitely pray about it. I was wondering, though, do Baptists look into church history at all? I was just wondering because I’ve done quite a bit of independent study of church history, and it’s overwhelmingly Catholic. I’ve come to the conclusion that Baptists either don’t bother with church history or they have their own alternate interpretation of it. Any insights?
They have the alternate view of history. There’s alot of bias in their view of Chruch History. Anything that remotely resembles Catholicism, they skew it.
 
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jbsmith:
I’ll definitely pray about it. I was wondering, though, do Baptists look into church history at all? I was just wondering because I’ve done quite a bit of independent study of church history, and it’s overwhelmingly Catholic. I’ve come to the conclusion that Baptists either don’t bother with church history or they have their own alternate interpretation of it. Any insights?
Many Baptists do not look at church history at all. They just repeat the misinformation they have learned as they grew up. I’ve heard many converts from the Baptist faith share that they started to think differently when they began to delve into church history.
 
Its like this…non catholic churches have some of the Truth, but we believe that the Catholic Church has the fullness of Truth. Protestants are saved, if they are living for Christ to the best of their knowledge. More on this later…
Thanks. If you have anything else to add, please feel free to contribute.
If you have SSA, you cannot live with another person of the same sex and be in a sexual relationship. If you are only attracted to people of the same sex, you must live a celibate lifestyle. You are, however, able to get married and have kids in a hetrosexual relationship. From your back story, it seems to me that you could truly fall in love with a women, get married, and have lots of babies. God doesn’t want to punish you. He wants you to be happy, we just have got to do it according to his grand plan.
Thanks. I’m wondering, though: Does the Church teach that one can change his/her sexual orientation from homosexual to heterosexual? I’ve been doing some research about this, and my findings seem to indicate no. However, this man on EWTN last night claimed to have changed his (with God, of course). The host didn’t seem to disagree with this claim.
I didn’t get to watch it. my youngest was awake and I was taking care of her. We sat on the couch and watched cartoons. I will try to catch a rerun later this week. I’m glad you watched it and enjoyed it.
That’s an excellent way to spend an evening. 🙂 You can always catch it later.
 
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beckyann2597:
Sorry, couldn’t let this go just yet. the actual definition of Heretic is
A person who holds controversial opinions, especially one who publicly dissents from the officially accepted dogma of the Roman Catholic Church.
So any of the democrats who are self proclaimed Catholics are heretics too because they are outspokenly Pro Abortion–they are living and acting contrary to Catholic teaching.
So Protestants and John Kerry would fall into this category? Or are Protestants schismatics?
 
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Edwin1961:
The Revised Standard Version - Catholic Edition is a great Bible too. It has some of the ‘old’ language (thees and thous) but the words used is VERY close to the original text (translated to English of course).

RSV-Catholic Edition is because it has ALL the Books of the Bible.
Thanks. I’ve seen that in bookstores before.
 
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Edwin1961:
They have the alternate view of history. There’s alot of bias in their view of Chruch History. Anything that remotely resembles Catholicism, they skew it.
I figured it was probably something like that. Thanks.
 
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Dorothy:
Many Baptists do not look at church history at all. They just repeat the misinformation they have learned as they grew up. I’ve heard many converts from the Baptist faith share that they started to think differently when they began to delve into church history.
Now that you mention it, I’ve never had a Baptist talk about church history to me. I haven’t had many Protestants talk about it, period.
 
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jbsmith:
Thanks. I’m wondering, though: Does the Church teach that one can change his/her sexual orientation from homosexual to heterosexual? I’ve been doing some research about this, and my findings seem to indicate no. However, this man on EWTN last night claimed to have changed his (with God, of course). The host didn’t seem to disagree with this claim.
I will probably be told I am wrong by others on this board, but I feel I need to be truthful and let you know What I think about this. I found out about a year ago that 2 couples at church had their children ‘come out’. They handled it very differently. One couple accepted that their child had been born this way and tried to be supportive to her and love her regardless if they agreed with her life choices or not. The other couple are no longer on speaking terms with the child. I was very sad about this.

I grew up having a few homosexual friends. Of course, when we were younger, we didn’t know what ‘homosexual’ meant. But, they were always different. Since both of the guys names are Ryan, I will refer to them as Ryan1 and Ryan2.

Only one of these friends was Catholic,Ryan1, and he ended up leaving the faith because he wanted to live the gay lifestyle. Ryan1 was raised without a father. I have heard people talk about what makes people have SSA. Are they born with it? Is it sexual abuse, or neglect from early in life? Is it environmental in some other way? I think that all are true.

Ryan 2 was born to an intact Christian family. He even tried to be hetrosexual through HS and had a girlfriend and all. But after HS graduation, he came out in college and none of us were surprised.

I have also had friends who have tried on a homosexual relationship, just to see if it fit. They stayed in the gay scene because it was comfortable and they were used to it, but they also hooked up with the opposite sex and identified themselves as bisexual. I think in their cases, “deprogramming” like the ministry the guy on LOTR supported would work very well. But I do have a problem with counseling like that, just because I feel that not all gay people have it in them to live a hetrosexual lifestyle. Celibacy would probably be those other peoples best bet. I hope that ministries like that also touch on how a person who is unable to change their desires can healthfully live a celibate lifestyle.

The one family at church who are not speaking with their son believe that he chose to have SSA and he is in part doing it to hurt them. I could never believe this. Why would someone choose to live such a difficult lifestyle, with people who hate you and would hurt you because of it and be alienated from your family?

You had siad in your last thread that you were once engaged to a woman, that you truly loved her and could have been married with kids to her. Because you felt this way once, that is why I feel you could very likely feel this way again. I would think that SSA would still be a cross and temptation for you, I am sure it could be for many men who are married to women and identify themselves as hetrosexuals but still have SSA tendencies. Some people I believe are born with and/or develop a stronger SSA than others and they cannot have a meaningful hetrosexual relationship because there is no real attraction to the opposite sex. I feel bad for people who have to live with this cross, but it is worth carrying to get to heaven.

When I first heard about my friends kids, I started to look up what the church actually taught on homosexual relationships. It turns out that years and years ago, the Vatican had touched on it just a little and pretty much siad that some people are born this way, and some peope, for whatever reason, develop homosexual tendencies. From what I found they taught that it is a disordered state of human sexuality and that the desire in itself was not the sin, but the acting on it that was. From what I remember, the Vatican document was very compassionate did not have a real indication whether people could be “fixed” or not. It is a very popular idea, though, that people can be deprogrammed. Just because the priest who hosted the show believed that this was possible for every person with SSA to be completely straight, it doesn’t mean its the official church teaching. I will snoop around and try to find the original church document.

I just wrote you a book and need to get back to cleaning my house. I will talk to you again soon–Rebecca
 
Becky:
I agree with everything you posted.

Jeff:
I haven’t seen anywhere that the Catholic Church would definitively teach (or suggest) that individuals that identify themselves as homosexual, or individuals with SSA, either CAN or **CAN’T **alter their sexual orientation. **Someone correct me if I’m wrong, **but I don’t think the RCC would make a statement of this nature. Isn’t such a determination under the realm of medical science / psychological science / behavioral science?


Chastity and homosexuality
2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,141 tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."142 They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved.

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.


*2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection. *

The interesting part about “being called to chastity” . . . we are ALL called to chastity, whatever our state in life: priest, religious, married, single-in-the-world.

Chastity and Celibacy are two different things (link)** . . .**
*CHASTITY: The moral virtue which, under the cardinal virtue of temperance, provides for the successful integration of sexuality within the person leading to the inner unity of the bodily and spiritual being (2337). Chastity is called one of the fruits of the Holy Spirit (1832). *
*CELIBACY: The state or condition of those who have chosen to remain unmarried for the sake of the kingdom of heaven in order to give themselves entirely to God and to the service of his people. In the Latin Church, celibacy is obligatory for bishops and priests. In some Eastern Churches, celibacy is a prerequisite for the ordination only of bishops; priests may not marry after they have been ordained (1579, 1580). *
 
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