T
The_Barbarian
Guest
I don’t buy the argument that He wouldn’t know such things would deceive us, either.
Sorry.
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Sorry.
T
The_Barbarian
Guest
Hard to believe anyone could be such a moron. Evolutionary theory has shown that biological human races don’t even exist, and that eugenics is a hopeless enterprise among humans.
Different outlook, same defective thinking, I suppose.
Except that many of them are permitted to roam unsupervised.
B
buffalo
Guest
He knows if our arrogance will deceive us.
T
The_Barbarian
Guest
Barbarian observes:
I don’t buy the argument that He wouldn’t know such things would deceive us, either.
Sorry.
Let God be God, and no more of this “God the deceiver” stuff.
I don’t buy the argument that He wouldn’t know such things would deceive us, either.
Sorry.
More likely, He did it just the way He presented it, and some arrogant people aren’t willing to let Him do it His way. Rather than planting fake fossils, He created the world just the way the evidence shows He did.
Let God be God, and no more of this “God the deceiver” stuff.
B
buffalo
Guest
We are really dancing here - a nice waltz.
How bout this?
On the table we have 1,000 or so puzzle pieces. The size of the puzzle is magnitudes bigger than 1,000 pieces - say a billion pieces.
Are we arrogant to assert that we know what the complete puzzle looks like?
I submit that even with all the evidence our senses can detect and reason we really are seeing a a teeny bit.
T
The_Barbarian
Guest
I don’t think anyone can dance well enough to convince me that God fakes fossils. Sorry.
We are certainly overcome with arrogance, if we need to assert that God fakes supernova explosions. BTW, there are certainly people capable of analyzing systems with 1 gig of parts. You’re communicating on one such system, right now.
Nevertheless, God is not deceptive. And faking fossils or the explosions of supernovae that never existed, is not something God would do.
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buffalo
Guest
God would not fake fossils I agree. The things we observe are not faked. What to make of them is the question.
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vern_humphrey
Guest
We start by examining the strata in which they lie. It’s pretty safe to say that the fossils in the top layer are not as old as those below.
Then we classify the fossils. We arrange them according to cladistics – fish with fish, reptiles with reptiles, and so on. Adn we fine tune that, placing those most alike anatomically in the same sequence.
What we find is a progression, from early and fairly simple to later and more complex fossils.
And in many cases, we can use DNA – in fact, DNA has been found in dinosaur bone marrow.
That gives a fairly comprehensive picture of the line of descent of life on this planet.
B
buffalo
Guest
I believe sequencing to be legit. I am not quite so sure it is comprehensive. Fossils as you well know are rare.
T
The_Barbarian
Guest
But at some point, you have to make an accommodation to reality. Recently, a bit of heme (part of the hemoglobin molecule) was found in dinosaur bones.
As predicted by theory, it turned out to be more like that of birds than of other reptiles.
As predicted by theory, it turned out to be more like that of birds than of other reptiles.
I
I_like_Mike
Guest
Every time you plan something you define a time for it. Your thinking is not limited mapleoak but what would be very difficult is to try and present an alternate concept of time.
In quantum the study of the very small and of human reactions there are some very surprising findings coming to light. To hit a cricket ball or a baseball is actually well beyond the capacity of any human to do so based on reaction time and yet people play cricket and baseball very well.
When one looks at how gifted God’s design is with a thought to how complex simple everyday actions are it becomes clear there is so much more to time even within us than the progressive ticking of a clock
J
j1s2a3
Guest
Don’t take literal (6000 years) for earth’s dating Catholics don’t have position on earth’s age.Life had to start somewhere and we Catholics trust Bible and it states that Father created us.Father is the simple unmoveable,immutable “I am that I am” light (spirit).Our God is Aesity (self-existence) who’s Essence and Existence are one.
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kalt
Guest
M
mapleoak
Guest
To assume God’s intent was to fake out man is arrogance, not whether or not He created the world in a state of existence complete with fossils and all. Complete with trees in every stage of growth. Complete with chickens and eggs and baby goslings in all stages of development. Complete with stars in the sky and ones that long since exploded even before they existed where only the light remains from them. That would be arrogance to assume that this is all deception.
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Sideline
Guest
Why would you assume it at all?
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mapleoak
Guest
All we can do is assume. If we come to the wrong conclusion, doesn’t mean God was deceptive.
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vern_humphrey
Guest
I find them all over – I have several of my favorites on my mantle piece.
S
St_Aloysius
Guest
Fossils are rare? Hardly. Perfect intermediate forms immaculately preserved? A little rarer, but the truth of the matter is that we have certain fossils that are pretty close.
We can observe microevolution, as it were, in lab work with fruit flies–the changing of traits from parent to offspring over several generations. The result is perfectly in line with Darwinism’s predictions.
We also have the fossilized remains of the now-extinct C. excelsior (a snail) as it evolves into the modern-day C. rubicundum–with perfect intermediate forms intact. A picture of true speciation.
Back in 1981, a biologist named David Reznik experimented with some guppies in a stream in Trinidad. The guppies were prey to a large fish predator. So Reznik and his colleagues transported them upstream, out of its reach. Within short periods of time, the guppies began to evolve noticably: The males took longer now to reach sexual maturity and were much larger (since before they would need to reach maturity fast and be smaller in order to survive.) By measuring the rate of change in hereditary characteristics (in units called darwins), astonishingly, these guppies came in at rates of evolution 10,000 to 10,000,000 times faster than the most rapid changes recorded in the fossil record! (These transitions in the FR were so fast, in terms of evolution, that advocates of Intelligent Design had previously called them “impossible” to be accounted for by Darwinian evolution.)
Macroevolution, which logically follows microevolution anyway, is established, observable fact.
That evolution, both micro and micro, occurs is not up for debate. Its philosophical ramifications, however, are profound–and to me, beautiful. As a very wise Roman Catholic woman once said to me in regards to evolution: “I think God is the ultimate scientist!” The Church very strongly supports naturalistic evolution (the Holy Father is a firm believer in it, as was his predecessor) and is constantly challenging the faithful with the humility acceptance of this theory (its mechanism) brings.
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The_Barbarian
Guest
Fossils as you well know are rare.
The cross on the wall in my office is made of fossil-bearing limestone.
T
The_Barbarian
Guest
Barbarian observes:
We are certainly overcome with arrogance, if we need to assert that God fakes supernova explosions.
We are certainly overcome with arrogance, if we need to assert that God fakes supernova explosions.
Sorry, not buying the idea that He wouldn’t realize that it would deceive us. I am puzzled. Since neither tradition nor the Bible says that He faked supernova explosions, why is it so hard for you to accept that He did it the way the evidence indicates?
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