My understanding of Mohammad

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I mean, I could go around calling myself a Christian but I doubt many here would stand for it, considering what I do actually believe.

If I’m not wrong, Christians had some number of official “councils” to clear up these doctrinal misunderstandings, and that the Catholics here at least don’t consider anyone to be Christian who doesn’t except divinity of Jesus.

But not being a Christian myself (nor even claiming to be one), it’s not really fair of me, I think, to argue that track. So I’ll let someone else.
 
Ah ok.

Catholics like other Christians have various opinions about who is a Christian. There are Christians who don’t consider Catholics to be Christians.
The Catholic Church does not argue people about what they (or don’t) call themselves as far as I know. But cultural habits also matters in people’s sensibility.
As for me, I have learn to tap into the ‘Catholic’ sensibility which consist in taping into the reality of every where and every time. That way I can look at things a little more objectively.
 
hamba2han said:
"I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren like unto thee, and I will put My words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him." … (Deuteronomy 18:18)
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The prophet prophesied could not be Mohammad since he is from the lineage of Ishmael. That would rule him out since only the descendants of Isaac in the covenant between God and Abraham were this promise given to.

To put God’s words in the mouth of a prophet is simply for the prophet to proclaim God’s word. This is not uncommon among the prophets. In Jeremiah it was stated in no uncertain term - the LORD reached out his hand and touched his mouth and said to him, “I have put my words in your mouth. See, today I appoint you over nations and kingdoms to uproot and tear down, to destroy and overthrow, to build and to plant.” Jer 1:9-10

As I have often said, it is inconsistent for God to use an angel to reveal his words to prophets. God would just say it himself to them – that’s why they are prophets. In the case of Mohammad, an angel was to bring words of Allah to him. And this angel manifested itself like a Devil. So it is in very strange situation that Mohammad should receive his revelation – beginning from Deuteronomy 18:18 until the so-called angel Gabriel who would oppress him and forced words into his mouth.
 
Sister_Amy said:
You may continue that line of thinking with other Christians and let them bicker it out of you.
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Of course Muslims never ‘bicker’, they merely sometimes bomb those of other Islamic ‘denominations’ and hate them as heretics.
Wow, what chutzpah!
 
Sister_Amy said:
Different “renderings” of the Qur’an have never resulted in a change in the meaning. They kinda just show the awesomeness of صرف but don’t change meanings.

The Qur’an in fact has not been “changed.”

And I think if you learn the Arabic language, you’ll see why the tradition exists to use it–not in an elitist or exclusive way (because children can learn it anywhere for free, it’s hardly either) but because it’s the best way to understand what God revealed.

Translations are allowed in any language, but Muslims have the integrity to know that the Qur’an, which still exists in its original form, is not (not cannot be) fully encompassed by any other language.
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Uthmann collected all the differing Qurans and burned them.

The only way for you to prove that the Quran has not changed is to supply the rocks, leaves and bones that the original Quran was written on. Or at least the notes from Mohammads followers that took notes as he spoke the verses he heard while having a seizure.

Proof the Quran was sent only to arab speaking people.

The Holy Bible can be translated into any language and all the people the world over will receive the full message
 
nablaise said:
Yes, he was persecuted when he was weak.
But as you can see, once strong, others needed to surrender before him.
God does not force himself on anyone, so there is no need to surrender. If anything, one can surrender to his love, not to threat of death. This is an other way to tell if a prophet is really from God or from himself.
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This is happening in the west today. Muslims compliant when their numbers are small. As soon as they have a larger percentage of people start demanding special treatments. Look up stealth Jihad.
 
Sister_Amy said:
In all my study of Islam, I never hear Muslim scholars describing prophets as being “perfect.” In fact, I’m not sure the Qur’an does that either.

Am I wrong? Someone can correct me–if you can find a place in the Qur’an where any prophet is described as “perfect.”

I only found it to refer to Allah, the favors of Allah, the actions of Allah, the Qur’an, but never to people.

So I don’t know why the OP starts the argument with accusing Muslims of believing in “perfect” prophets if Islam doesn’t actually teach any such thing.
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Your allah does in fact realize who Jesus is, the sinless, or pure holy son:

019.019
YUSUFALI: He said: "Nay, I am only a messenger from thy Lord, (to announce) to thee the gift of **a holy son. **

PICKTHAL: He said: I am only a messenger of thy Lord, that I may bestow on thee **a faultless son. **

SHAKIR: He said: I am only a messenger of your Lord: That I will give you a pure boy.
 
truthtester said:
Prophet Muhammad is unique in many ways.He was the unlettered prophet (unlike Jesus) yet the divine book Quran today exists in its original language Arabic and in text.All sects of Islam have the same Quran in all times every where.Sadly all the other divine books either were lost in text but bible sadly in both,ie.language and text.Why?Because Jews who were out to humiliate and hurt Jeus made sure by entering their man Paul that the original copy in Aramaic be not only found and destroyed but people be scared so much that they should stop speaking Aramaic allthogehter.Don’t forget Jesus being an educated Rabbi wrote the gospel himself.
Prophet Muhammad came for the whole mankind while all other prophets came either for a specific area(Moses)or for a specific people(Jesus for Jews to bring them back from corruption).
We have today complete biography of Muhammad available.
If you want to know more about Islam and knowledge never hurts,watch www.thedeenshow.com.
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Jesus did not write the Gospel- HE was the Gospel.

Check this out:
**7.157 "Those who follow the messenger, the unlettered Prophet, whom they find mentioned in their own (scriptures),- in the law and the Gospel;- **

Jesus not Mohammad is mentioned in the Law and Gospel.

**for he commands them what is just and forbids them what is evil; he allows them as lawful what is good (and pure) and prohibits them from what is bad (and impure); **

Jesus did this. Mohammad only **relayed **what he thought allah was prohibiting and allowing. Mohammad is very wrong on many things concerning what is lawful and what is not.

He releases them from their heavy burdens and from the yokes that are upon them.

Mohammad did in no way relieve anyone of a burden but infact added extra burdns to people. Mohammad is a bit confused [which happens a lot in his Quran] about the yoke analogy- our burdens are lightened when we put on Jesus’ yoke.

**So it is those who believe in him, honour him, help him, and follow the light which is sent down with him,- it is they who will prosper." **

Mohammad is in no way a light to the world- Infact it is because of his teachings so many in Islam are backwrds, undeveloped- look at Sharia Law - barbaric punishments, inequality of women, dhimmi status for all non-muslims, etc.

Speaking of Jesus the Quran says:
**4.174 O mankind! verily there hath come to you a convincing proof from your Lord: For We have sent unto you a light (that is) manifest.
**
 
KathleenGee said:
At the baptism of Christ, ministered by St. John the Baptist and witnessed by the John’s followers, a voice comes down from heaven saying, ‘This is my beloved son for whom I am well pleased’, and along with the voice the appearance of a dove over Christ…the symbol of the Holy Spirit.

So here in this theophany, we through the witness of the followers of John, verified by Christ and His specific calling of His apostles, we as well witness Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as One.

And in the language of the Church, instead of saying Father, Son and Holy Spirit three beings/Persons in One God, the Church simply calls this Mystery the Holy Trinity…different aspects of God bringing about the mission of the restoration of man through Christ…and in Christ, man’s restoration to his neighbor.
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Witnesses that is the key!

There were witnesses to Paul’s meeting with Jesus on the Road to Demascus- his fellow travelers and Anansis, Mary had a witness in Joseph and his dream, Moses had miracles to prove he meet with GOD, Jesus’ crucifixion and resurection - multiple witnesses, etc.

Mohammad is self proclaimed. Funny his first thought was that his visit was form something evil.

It was his wive’s uncle a Nestorian or Ebonite monk that convinced him otherwise.
 
Reuben_J said:
The prophet prophesied could not be Mohammad since he is from the lineage of Ishmael. That would rule him out since only the descendants of Isaac in the covenant between God and Abraham were this promise given to.

To put God’s words in the mouth of a prophet is simply for the prophet to proclaim God’s word. This is not uncommon among the prophets. In Jeremiah it was stated in no uncertain term - the LORD reached out his hand and touched his mouth and said to him, “I have put my words in your mouth. See, today I appoint you over nations and kingdoms to uproot and tear down, to destroy and overthrow, to build and to plant.” Jer 1:9-10

As I have often said, it is inconsistent for God to use an angel to reveal his words to prophets. God would just say it himself to them – that’s why they are prophets. In the case of Mohammad, an angel was to bring words of Allah to him. And this angel manifested itself like a Devil. So it is in very strange situation that Mohammad should receive his revelation – beginning from Deuteronomy 18:18 until the so-called angel Gabriel who would oppress him and forced words into his mouth.
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The concept of Angel Gabriel bringing and explaining revelation to Biblical Prophets (peace be upon them all) is certainly not something that is unheard of in Christianity.

Besides his visit to inform Mary of the coming of her son Jesus (pbuh), the Bible also tells of other visits by the Angel Gabriel to bring revelation to Prophets. Kindly refer to the book of Daniel (Chapters 8 & 9) and the book of Luke (Chapter 1) to get confirmation of this.

And so, even if based solely on Biblical accounts, I would say that it is indeed perfectly consistent for the Lord to send Angel Gabriel to deliver and explain revelation to His Prophets (peace be upon them all).
 
But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned!

Galations 1-8
 
Schaick,

Affirm your fact that Jesus is the Gospel.

Jesus is the Incarnate Word through which the carnate world was created. Jesus always was, is, and will be forever.

Even as a small child I was deeply moved by Christ coming into this world, not through triumph and condemnation…but as an infant, born of poor parents, and placed in a manger surrounded by shepherds and animals, the shepherds being the lowest rank in society.
 
What is so hard for Muslims to understand is that our faith in the One, True God is calling us to renunciation and death to sin, selfish will, power, greed, and passion…and calling us into relationship with Him.

Thus the nature of God Himself is not supreme ruler, but through Christ now the loving Father Who is calling all to see their neighbor as their brother.

Whoever says he loves God but hates his neighbor condemns himself.

At our death, it will be our recognition of our own sinfulness and rejection of God that will then cause us to choose our end…we ourselves will throw ourselves into hell for refusing God and hating our neighbor.
 
StevieD said:
Of course Muslims never ‘bicker’, they merely sometimes bomb those of other Islamic ‘denominations’ and hate them as heretics.
Wow, what chutzpah!
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Muslims bicker quite a lot actually. But it’s a special kind of pointless for them to bicker about what makes someone a Christian. I say, let the Christians fight that battle.
 
schaick said:
Uthmann collected all the differing Qurans and burned them.

The only way for you to prove that the Quran has not changed is to supply the rocks, leaves and bones that the original Quran was written on. Or at least the notes from Mohammads followers that took notes as he spoke the verses he heard while having a seizure.

Proof the Quran was sent only to arab speaking people.

The Holy Bible can be translated into any language and all the people the world over will receive the full message
Click to expand...
The Qur’an can be translated into any language, too. But the full meaning of nothing can be embedded in a translation to any language–the interpreter must make choices, and often can only offer one possible meaning of the text while the original may contain many. You don’t find people reading Shakespeare in other languages, for instance, and grasping what the English speaking world can appreciate from it, right?

Moreover, the Qur’an, though it has been preserved in written form, was revealed and presented orally, and then memorized. People might have made mistakes in their notes. Or offered commentary, that someone might mistake for Qur’an. Example, in one person’s notes, an ayah says something meaning “guard the middle prayer.” And someone in their notes put the عصر prayer, a specific one of the five which is performed in the afternoon. It’s important that nobody think the Qur’an wasn’t clear on this matter or that nobody knows what actually was revealed. Because everyone knows what the Qur’an says (they all memorized it) and anything else is just interpretation. An early form of commentary even.

But people transmitted their “notes” orally as well. They’re collected now into books of تفسير tafseer. The proof of the Qur’an is that you can go to any one who has memorized it, anywhere in the world, and they’ll recite you the same Qur’an, with an unbroken chain of their teachers going back to the Prophet Muhammad.

But the proof for the consistency of the Qur’an in written form is available as well. The book Ulum Al Qur’an is a good book on that subject.
 
Sister_Amy said:
What do you mean?
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Whos’ running the Government besides the Military? Nothing but we see on the news/net

Those students/young people may need to come back out again. I believe they should have never left until they had everything they wanted. Its a Chess game of attrition.
 
GaryTaylor said:
Whos’ running the Government besides the Military? Nothing but we see on the news/net

Those students/young people may need to come back out again. I believe they should have never left until they had everything they wanted. Its a Chess game of attrition.
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Military just dissolved the parliament and apparently suspended the constitution (or so I read on AJE). They’re supposed to be in charge until elections, later this year. I heard (yesterday, I think) that they’ve formed an advisory council to start developing the system of government, structuring it to give more power to a parliament (and less to a president, as was the case before.)

And some folks are still in the square (or so I read) but a government can’t be formed overnight. Will take time–I’m hoping for the best right now.
 
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