Ben Masada;4843307:
The age of 20 was for Army maturity. Maturity as far as being responsible for mitzvot was always 13 for boys and 12 for girls. And for boys it was almost a mitvah to have it done at the Temple. Perhaps Jesus was found in the Temple discussing with the priests by occasion of his Bar Mitzvah.
Ben:
Whether one can be commanded to love or not, is a side issue. Love is the most important principle of reality.Geometer, never mind the word “love” which is used in the Bible. It does not mean love per se, but respect. Love does not happen like this. Can you tell a person or an animal or a thing, “I am going to love you tomorrow?” Do you understand now what I mean? No one can be commanded to love,
as no one can be commanded to feel. If you still won’t understand
after this, we might as well drop the subject because it will be a waste of our time.
Ben:
Valke2;4844573:
What is your source? Again, I’ve never read anything to suggest that a bar mitzvah took place at the Temple.Ben Masada;4843307:
The age of 20 was for Army maturity. Maturity as far as being responsible for mitzvot was always 13 for boys and 12 for girls. And for boys it was almost a mitvah to have it done at the Temple. Perhaps Jesus was found in the Temple discussing with the priests by occasion of his Bar Mitzvah.
Ben:
The Talmud uses the term bar mitzvah but the only ritual associated with it was a blessing pronounced by the father thanking God for ending his responsibility for his son’s observance of the mitzvot (commandments).
prior to the middle agges, a child could participate in many mitzvot, including wearing tefilam, etc. Only later, in the Middle Ages, when the minor was generally not permitted to perform these mitzvot, did it make sense to celebrate their first public observance. By the 14th century CE, sources mention a boy being called up to the Torah for the first time on the Sabbath coinciding with or following his 13th birthday.
myjewishlearning.com/lifecycle/Bar_Bat_Mitzvah/History.htm
You don’t have to convince me. I was trying to understand Ben’s logic here.
Ben Masada;4844865:
“Sources mention…” Do you see what I mean? And you jump to ask where are my sources. Well, I have learnt
from you: Sources mention.
Ben:
I agree with you; but we cannot be commanded to love. Therefore, we must be adaptable when reading the Scriptures. We can’t have it literally, or we will be digging contradictions where there is none.
Valke2;4845182:
? I provided a link. You made an assertion completely unsupported by history, the Talmud and anything I have ever read about the Temple.Ben Masada;4844865:
“Sources mention…” Do you see what I mean? And you jump to ask where are my sources. Well, I have learnt
with: Sources mention.
Ben:
Valke2;4845182:
You are a scholar when it comes to rolling eyes, I admit.Ben Masada;4844865:
“Sources mention…” Do you see what I mean? And you jump to ask where are my sources. Well, I have learnt
from you: Sources mention.
Ben:
Here’s another link for you:
Bar Mitzvah was not known to the ancient Jews. This was true because minor children were permitted to participate in all religious ceremonies, including the reading of the Bible or Torah, and used the “Tfillin.” “Tfillin” are two boxes containing Scripture. These two boxes are attached to the forehead of a male congregant by a leather strap placed upon the skull and by another leather strap placed on the left forearm. The Greek word “phylactery” is sometimes used to designate these boxes, the word meaning “guards” in the sense that the words contained in the boxes are expected to guard the wearer from evil thoughts during prayer.
jbuff.com/c032901.htm
Ben Masada;4847768:
As you can see, Catholics are not the only ones
to believe in the superstitious power of amulets.
You have researched almost 100 percent well. The second strap
for the left arm reaches as hight as the arm. To say that it was tied on the forearm is not accurate. But I would give you a 90+.
Ben:Here! It’s better than rolling eyes.
Valke2;4847826:
And regarding your assertion that bar mitzvahs were done in the Temple??Ben Masada;4847768:
As you can see, Catholics are not the only ones
to believe in the superstitious power of amulets.
You have researched almost 100 percent well. The second strap
for the left arm reaches as hight as the arm. To say that it was tied on the forearm is not accurate. But I would give you a 90+.
Ben:
Ben Masada;4847881:
I’ll stick to it, because here at the wailing wall, a white bearded Rabbi-like old man told me that the almost daily occurrence of Bar Mitzvah celebrations is a facsimile of what used to be done at the Temple. I guess, if he does not know better than myself, at least he confirmed my readings.
Ben:
As written in the Torah, the gematria of “Ve’ahavta et YHVH Elohecha [Love Hashem your G-d]” (Deuteronomy 6:5) is 907.
Love is an action, charity, not a feeling, that is why it cannot be commanded. To show love is to do, not to smile at someone and say “go in peace”I agree with you; but we cannot be commanded to love. Therefore, we must be adaptable when reading the Scriptures. We can’t have it literally, or we will be digging contradictions where there is none.
Ben:
Sorry but I don’t see love and charity as synonyms. And I don’t think this subject has anything to do with the issue at hand.l
The word “love” in the Jewish confession of faith
Ben Masada;4847881:
Valke, something if not Bar Mitzvah as it is done today, was done when there was a Temple to define or celebrate maturity for mitzvot responsibility. I think that’s what that old man
at the Wailing Wall told me about it. Things evolve in Judaism. But I do believe that some kind of prototype was there at the Temple time, if you can see what I mean.
Ben:
Valke2;4847900:
what readings.Ben Masada;4847881:
I’ll stick to it, because here at the wailing wall, a white bearded Rabbi-like old man told me that the almost daily occurrence of Bar Mitzvah celebrations is a facsimile of what used to be done at the Temple. I guess, if he does not know better than myself, at least he confirmed my readings.
Ben:
Valke2;4847900:
I understand what you are saying. But my understanding is that during Temple times, there was no ritual for a bar mitzvah.Ben Masada;4847881:
Valke, something if not Bar Mitzvah as it is done today, was done when there was a Temple to define or celebrate maturity for mitzvot responsibility. I think that’s what that old man
at the Wailing Wall told me about it. Things evolve in Judaism. But I do believe that some kind of prototype was there at the Temple time, if you can see what I mean.
Ben:
Ben Masada;4848901:
Yes, I have to agree with you, considering all the paraphernalia of modern times.
Ben: