Myth of evolution and new drug discovery

  • Thread starter Thread starter edwest2
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Well, is science as a whole, corrigible to the facts as they are and as they emerge, or not? Is there an consensus that any conflicting evidence or counterfactuals must be denied, distorted, dismissed or ignored, or not?

That’s all “black helicopters” refers to. Either the science community is generally committed to an honest, reasonable assessment of the facts on their merits, or it is not. Which is it, in your view? Reading back through some of your posts (I may have missed some), it’s not clear what your “thesis” is on that. I would have guessed you were “non-conspiratorial” if you had asked me. Others here clearly are committed to that idea. That’s their prerogative, but their’s a very limited potential in discussing it with them, as once you buy into the conspiracy, no evidence can persuade you from it.

-TS
I am a “free spirit” evolutionist. My thesis is “The possibility of two sole parents of the human race lies within the nature of the human species.”

This thesis researches various elements of current evolutionary theory and other current areas of scientific investigation regarding the human being. The thesis is not intended as opposition to science; rather it invites one to explore that part or area of the intrinsic value of human life which is beyond the technical limits of evolutionary theory. Thus, the viable, but not adequately explored, spiritual component of the unique human person is seen as the foundation for the possibility of monogenism.

Please note: This thesis is not part of any preparation for an advanced degree. It is open to contributors. Furthermore, I do recognize various difficulties connected to it. My personal view is that it will serve as seeds of curiosity so that others, more qualified than I am, can take it to fruition. Because various elements pertaining to the thesis are spread over various threads, I will eventually take it to its own thread.

Blessings,
granny

All human life is sacred.
 
I am a “free spirit” evolutionist. My thesis is “The possibility of two sole parents of the human race lies within the nature of the human species.”

This thesis researches various elements of current evolutionary theory and other current areas of scientific investigation regarding the human being. The thesis is not intended as opposition to science; rather it invites one to explore that part or area of the intrinsic value of human life which is beyond the technical limits of evolutionary theory. Thus, the viable, but not adequately explored, spiritual component of the unique human person is seen as the foundation for the possibility of monogenism.

Please note: This thesis is not part of any preparation for an advanced degree. It is open to contributors. Furthermore, I do recognize various difficulties connected to it. My personal view is that it will serve as seeds of curiosity so that others, more qualified than I am, can take it to fruition. Because various elements pertaining to the thesis are spread over various threads, I will eventually take it to its own thread.

Blessings,
granny

All human life is sacred.
Did you check out the related posts here

I can just see the headlines now: Granny Starts New Movement, Free Spirit Evolution

Count me in! 😉
 
Intelligent Design is based on observations of current living things. I’ll give the definition once more. Complex, interconnected and interdependent components of living things, like cells, look like nanomachinery because they are nanomachinery. Comments from Richard Dawkins that living things look designed but are not, according to him, ignores, according to me and the theory, the obvious.
How do IC systems come into existence?
Is your actual purpose here just to discredit something?
Peace,
Ed
Yes!
 
That is why science sees a need to advocate for scientific thinking and factual, empirical approaches to education.
It’s important to recognize that this foundation for education is a metaphysical position itself which is not fact-based. It’s a worldview (“education must be empirically fact-based”) which does not come from science but from philosophy. It establishes empiricism as the only trustworthy approach to reality – thus reducing the acquisition of knowledge to the most superficial, external aspects – namely, through sensory data alone. The very act of philosophizing and reasoning about what education “should be” is not an exercise in empirical science. Therefore, to impose a philosophical structure onto education which denies that the system is founded in a particular philosophy is not coherent. It’s also just as much of an imposition of a worldview on society as is that of any religion.

It will be claimed that empiricism “should be” the only method used because “science works”. But that is not scientific either and the following question does not get explored this way either – “works for what?”

One needs to determine the goal that education has in shaping minds – what does it hope to produce and why is that the goal?
 
It’s important to recognize that this foundation for education is a metaphysical position itself which is not fact-based. It’s a worldview (“education must be empirically fact-based”) which does not come from science but from philosophy. It establishes empiricism as the only trustworthy approach to reality – thus reducing the acquisition of knowledge to the most superficial, external aspects – namely, through sensory data alone. The very act of philosophizing and reasoning about what education “should be” is not an exercise in empirical science. Therefore, to impose a philosophical structure onto education which denies that the system is founded in a particular philosophy is not coherent. It’s also just as much of an imposition of a worldview on society as is that of any religion.

It will be claimed that empiricism “should be” the only method used because “science works”. But that is not scientific either and the following question does not get explored this way either – “works for what?”

One needs to determine the goal that education has in shaping minds – what does it hope to produce and why is that the goal?
Even if we lived in culture based on integral Christian humanism, rather than the current post-Christian secular humanist culture, science should still observe methodological naturalism.
 
I think that statement there – “a fundamental struggle that has been going on for a long time” – IS the calling card for the Creationist mentality that is decried in the secular culture. You say “that’s not me”, but the rest of your words here say “that’s me”.

OK, fine. To recall an old Jesuit observation:

Give Me the Boy Until the Age of Seven, I Will Give You the Man.

I think the strategic importance of the teaching authority for young minds is not in question. That is why science sees a need to advocate for scientific thinking and factual, empirical approaches to education. It is fact-based science itself, not the metaphysical extrapolations from it (philosophical materialism, for example, or even Catholic theism) that are problematic, oer even relevant for that kind of instruction: the product of the scientific method as the scientific method is obejctionable, because it works against carefully constructed and vigilantly guarded worldviews that are theologically hostile to facts and conclusions as the scientific method renders them.

-TS
“facts” and “conclusions” can be invented and bought and paid for. It is the currency of deception.

hup.harvard.edu/catalog/MCGBEN.html

I have already extrapolated how this will all play out. An arms race for facts and conclusions, different camps of followers of the chosen elite, who will later be overthrown by another chosen elite. That is when human nature, what Catholics call sin, will be exposed. It will be voiced like this: “You deceived us with false data, all to get power for yourself and your supporters while I thought we were all building a rational world together.”

The average human being has a deadly error built into him.

Peace,
Ed
 
“facts” and “conclusions” can be invented and bought and paid for. It is the currency of deception.

hup.harvard.edu/catalog/MCGBEN.html

I have already extrapolated how this will all play out. An arms race for facts and conclusions, different camps of followers of the chosen elite, who will later be overthrown by another chosen elite. That is when human nature, what Catholics call sin, will be exposed. It will be voiced like this: “You deceived us with false data, all to get power for yourself and your supporters while I thought we were all building a rational world together.”

The average human being has a deadly error built into him.

Peace,
Ed
I can see it now… some secret society is behind evolution! Maybe you should pitch that to Dan Brown… :rolleyes:
 
They do not come into existence through Darwinian methods. So, that option is eliminated. Agreed?
If a system is IC then Darwinism cannot explain it. However, IC is an unproven hypothesis. I do not accept that IC systems exist in nature. So, what is it we agree on?
 
I can see it now… some secret society is behind evolution! Maybe you should pitch that to Dan Brown… :rolleyes:
It is a fact that ideology laden neo-Darwinism has been used to indoctrinate. As Gould candidly admitted: “We taught catechism.”
 
I think spontaneous generation is a cool idea. It was believed for millenniums. Then scientists disproved it. (T.H. Huxley still believed in SG.). But then scientists believe SG to have occurred in that primeval soup. Additionally, you conclude that SG can still get started, at least.
Well, there’s ‘spontaneous’ as in “maggots magically appear from the ether when a carcass is left to rot” as in the time of Pasteur, and then there’s ‘spontaneous’ as in “RNA World”, and its cascading variants. I’ll grant that ‘spontaneous’ is probably a misnomer for the latter, because it is actually understood to be automatic, procedural, just constrained to exotic conditions. Decay events for an unstable isotope are ‘spontaeous’ in the sense ofbeing unpredictable and probabilistic. Abiogenesis is a phenomena of a different sort – just chemistry doing its thing “by the book”, when the conditions are right and the requisite materials are present. Scientists wouldn’t conflate the historical notions of ‘spontaeity’ with the chemical assemblies hypothesized for the construction of the first self-replicating polymers.
I was contrasting environments, old and new. Scientists are working to simulate the harsh primeval environment in which life arose billions of years ago. But we have no idea what conditions of our present, life friendly environment, if any at all, are conducive to SG. I love paradoxes, as you see.
Well, that shows the inapplicability of the term “spontaneous generation”, right there. If you have to get the configuration just right, and then it happens predictably, there’s no actual spontaneity involved. And that is the heuristic abiogenesis research are working from – nothing spontaneous in the casual sense, just chemistry. But chemistry that is catalyzed only by fairly exotic environemental contexts.

If you follow the literature on this, which it sounds like you might, you are aware that encouraging progress continues apace here, not so much in the validation of pre-biotic conditions, but in the actual pathways for various steps in the assembly process – cf. Michael Jewett’s work published this spring in synthesizing ribosomal RNA from constituent molecules, synthetic ribosomes that create very long, complex proteins.

-TS
 
It’s important to recognize that this foundation for education is a metaphysical position itself which is not fact-based. It’s a worldview (“education must be empirically fact-based”) which does not come from science but from philosophy.
Science is philosophy. It used to called ‘natural philosophy’.
It establishes empiricism as the only trustworthy approach to reality – thus reducing the acquisition of knowledge to the most superficial, external aspects – namely, through sensory data alone.
It depends on how one qualifies trust. If demonstrable, objective results are the measure, empirical methods pretty much embarrass anything else out there. You can wax eloquent as you like about “inner being” or something “less superficial” than physical models, but when it comes to performance, you end up mumbling, putting your hands in your pockets, and drawing in the dirt with your shoe, while empirical methods get rockets to the moon, vaccinations on the hunt to eliminate polio from the face of the earth and OC-12 switches pushing 600+ megabytes a second of digital bits down the pipes of teh interwebz.
The very act of philosophizing and reasoning about what education “should be” is not an exercise in empirical science.
There are definitely some subjective elements there, but there’s a very good empirical case to be made for educating youth in the principles and superiority in terms of performance of empirical epsitemologies and methodologies. That is, we can conclude from an evidential review that empirical principles are important for a well-rounded education.
Therefore, to impose a philosophical structure onto education which denies that the system is founded in a particular philosophy is not coherent. It’s also just as much of an imposition of a worldview on society as is that of any religion.
I think so, but only in the way our courts of law impose the “religion” of facts and evidence and secular jurisprudence. Objectivity mediated by critical analysis is the universal epistemology. We all use is it, event the hard core fundamentalist or the dreamiest mystic. It just gets abandoned when it can be abandoned by some more readily than others.
It will be claimed that empiricism “should be” the only method used because “science works”. But that is not scientific either and the following question does not get explored this way either – “works for what?”
The evidence is overwhelming that science works, that it is effective and productive in generating knowledge that is verifiable, objective, predictive and falsifiable. That’s a criterion where theology, for example, scores a pathetic 0 for 4. If you take medicine, fly on an airplane, drive a car, or use a computer, you are validating the importance and success of empirical epistemology. The more evidence we have to assess, the more science dominates the performance curve for performative human knowledge.
One needs to determine the goal that education has in shaping minds – what does it hope to produce and why is that the goal?
Natural knowledge. Natural explanations for natural phenemona. That doesn’t preclude theological conjectures, etc. But it’s a basic building block for a free, prosperous, just society.

-TS
 
“facts” and “conclusions” can be invented and bought and paid for. It is the currency of deception.

hup.harvard.edu/catalog/MCGBEN.html

I have already extrapolated how this will all play out. An arms race for facts and conclusions, different camps of followers of the chosen elite, who will later be overthrown by another chosen elite. That is when human nature, what Catholics call sin, will be exposed. It will be voiced like this: “You deceived us with false data, all to get power for yourself and your supporters while I thought we were all building a rational world together.”

The average human being has a deadly error built into him.

Peace,
Ed
If what you say is true, then I have no reason to believe it! This is an example of a thoroughly self-refuting argument. If I were to accept what you say, by the reasoning you offer, I’d then have no reason to accept it, because of the deadly error built into me/us.

That’s quite an extrapolation from the link you provided!

-TS
 
It is a fact that ideology laden neo-Darwinism has been used to indoctrinate. As Gould candidly admitted: “We taught catechism.”
Probably, but this is not a massive conspiracy nor is it evidence against the scientific theory itself. To put it bluntly, a**holes exist in every group, but they rarely define the group.
 
Well, there’s ‘spontaneous’ as in “maggots magically appear from the ether when a carcass is left to rot” as in the time of Pasteur, and then there’s ‘spontaneous’ as in “RNA World”, and its cascading variants. I’ll grant that ‘spontaneous’ is probably a misnomer for the latter, because it is actually understood to be automatic, procedural, just constrained to exotic conditions. Decay events for an unstable isotope are ‘spontaeous’ in the sense ofbeing unpredictable and probabilistic. Abiogenesis is a phenomena of a different sort – just chemistry doing its thing “by the book”, when the conditions are right and the requisite materials are present. Scientists wouldn’t conflate the historical notions of ‘spontaeity’ with the chemical assemblies hypothesized for the construction of the first self-replicating polymers.

Well, that shows the inapplicability of the term “spontaneous generation”, right there. If you have to get the configuration just right, and then it happens predictably, there’s no actual spontaneity involved. And that is the heuristic abiogenesis research are working from – nothing spontaneous in the casual sense, just chemistry. But chemistry that is catalyzed only by fairly exotic environemental contexts.

If you follow the literature on this, which it sounds like you might, you are aware that encouraging progress continues apace here, not so much in the validation of pre-biotic conditions, but in the actual pathways for various steps in the assembly process – cf. Michael Jewett’s work published this spring in synthesizing ribosomal RNA from constituent molecules, synthetic ribosomes that create very long, complex proteins.

-TS
I was using “spontaneous” in a broad sense to distinguish the kinds of origin of living things that are not from other living things such as every cell from a cell, etc. In fact, more than one of my texts on evolution uses spontaneous generation in this wide sense, while describing the latest science on abiogenesis, and so on.
 
It is a fact that ideology laden neo-Darwinism has been used to indoctrinate. As Gould candidly admitted: “We taught catechism.”
Do you have a source for that? I think I’ve read about as much Gould as is publicly available by now, and I don’t recognize that line. It sounds like a plausible line from Gould, but that’s one I think I’d remember.

Searching for “Gould ‘we taught catechism’” returns zero hits on Google, I note.

Be that as it may, there is a catechetism to teach kids, of a sort, in terms of scientific epistemology, and just as there is a “catechism” to teach in mathematics. “Catechism” here would be a “summary of doctrine” of course, the core teachings of the discipline, and not religious in any sense. I’ll wait for the reference from Gould from you before I comment further on that. It would be important to read that candid comment in context.

-TS
 
I was using “spontaneous” in a broad sense to distinguish the kinds of origin of living things that are not from other living things such as every cell from a cell, etc. In fact, more than one of my texts on evolution uses spontaneous generation in this wide sense, while describing the latest science on abiogenesis, and so on.
OK, got it, thanks.

-TS
 
Do you have a source for that? I think I’ve read about as much Gould as is publicly available by now, and I don’t recognize that line. It sounds like a plausible line from Gould, but that’s one I think I’d remember.

Searching for “Gould ‘we taught catechism’” returns zero hits on Google, I note.

Be that as it may, there is a catechetism to teach kids, of a sort, in terms of scientific epistemology, and just as there is a “catechism” to teach in mathematics. “Catechism” here would be a “summary of doctrine” of course, the core teachings of the discipline, and not religious in any sense. I’ll wait for the reference from Gould from you before I comment further on that. It would be important to read that candid comment in context.

-TS
I’ll look for the reference. Also, Stanley L. Jaki discusses Gould’s comment in more than one of his lectures.

P.S. Google doesn’t know all there is to know. :rolleyes:
 
I’ll look for the reference. Also, Stanley L. Jaki discusses Gould’s comment in more than one of his lectures.

P.S. Google doesn’t know all there is to know. :rolleyes:
No I don’t suppose it does. Anyone who like to keep up with science knows that most of the good quotes and knowledge is hidden behind a paywall.

No bother on the reference. I’m fine with accepting it as apocryphally true. Gould and his “NOMA” paradigm suggests that a “catechism” of empirical methods and knowledge would be no problem, just the tools of the “scientific magisterium”.

-TS
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top