Name one Catholic teaching that contradicts Scripture

[JSmitty2005]

JesusHasMyHeart:

So by your own admission and demise I might add, admit that not all your doctrines are based upon scripture?

Yes. I agree with that statement. However, all Catholic doctrines are found in the Word of God. The problem is that you believe that God’s Word is found exclusively in Scripture which is not true. Furthermore, no Catholic doctrine is anti-biblical even if it is extra-biblical. Even YOU believe in extra-biblical doctrines and practices like the canon of Scripture or going to church on Sunday.

 

[JSmitty2005]

JesusHasMyHeart:

He said in Matthew 4:4
Jesus answered the devil when being tempted," IT IS WRITTEN, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by* every word* that proceeds out of the mouth of God.

This is a very Catholic verse in that we adhere to it; while you Protestants do not “live by…EVERY WORD of God.”

 

[Eden]

JesusHasMyHeart:

Then how do you answer Jesus when He said in Matthew 4:4
Jesus answered the devil when being tempted," IT IS WRITTEN, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by* every word* that proceeds out of the mouth of God.

It is written… that not everything is in the Bible.

Matthew and Oral Tradition

Matt. 2:23 - the prophecy “He shall be a Nazarene” is oral tradition. It is not found in the Old Testament. This demonstrates that the apostles relied upon oral tradition and taught by oral tradition.

Matt 23:2 - Jesus relies on the oral tradition of acknowledging Moses’ seat of authority (which passed from Moses to Joshua to the Sanhedrin). This is not recorded in the Old Testament.

Jesus rebuked the Pharisees for teaching for doctrine, the commandments of man, and they made the Word of none effect
because their religion was much more important.

Matt. 15:3 - Jesus condemns human traditions that void God’s word. Some Protestants use this verse to condemn all tradition. But this verse has nothing to do with the tradition we must obey that was handed down to us from the apostles. (Here, the Pharisees, in their human tradition, gave goods to the temple to avoid taking care of their parents, and this voids God’s law of honoring one’s father and mother.)

Their is sooooo much more.

We’ve seen it all here before. There is no claim you can make about Church teaching that can not be refuted.

 

[JSmitty2005]

JesusHasMyHeart:

Lets go on…
John is clarifying in John 1 that Jesus is the Word of God, wouldn’t that qualify as essential ? I think that is a sufficient pillar and foundation to the Christian faith more than the popes who is mere mortal man.

Of course Jesus is the Word! How do you think EWTN got its name? The Church is the pillar and foundation of the Christian faith. This is very clear in Scripture.

 

[JSmitty2005]

JesusHasMyHeart:

Their is sooooo much more.

Bring it on.

 

[Eden]

JesusHasMyHeart:

Lets go on…
John is clarifying in John 1 that Jesus is the Word of God, wouldn’t that qualify as essential ? I think that is a sufficient pillar and foundation to the Christian faith more than the popes who is mere mortal man. The word of God is all about His Word.

The “pillar and foundation of truth” is not the Bible, it’s the Church Jesus founded - the Catholic Church.

Here is the passage: “the household of God, which is the Church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of truth.” (1Timothy 3:15)

 

[Eden]

JSmitty2005:

Bring it on.

Indeed.

 

[JesusHasMyHeart]

AlegreFe:

To JesusHasMyHeart I just want to know, what are you afraid of? I am being sincere in my question? I feel there is something else going on here. Of course I could be wrong. You don’t have to reply here of course. These are just questions I ask of you for you to think about on your own. So please don’t answer here as it will start a whole different discussion. My brother is a Protestant and there are things going on with him that run deep and he’s in a lot of pain. Not everyone is like that of course.

I would love to ask any and all Protestants out there… Now just try to believe in the Real Presence of Jesus Christ in the Eucharist (which could only be true in the Catholic church btw)… let’s say you believe; Wouldn’t it be great if you could have a REAL and Substantial Personal Relationship with Jesus that is uniquely intimate in the Eucharist? Wouldn’t you love to partake of the one loaf that is Jesus Christ, his one body? Since Jesus told us that unless we eat the flesh of the son of man we have no life in us, wouldn’t you want to have life in you. Jesus said that the person who eats His flesh and drinks His blood abides in Him and in turn He abides in YOU! Wouldn’t you love for Jesus to abide in you in a substantial way so that He can transform you in a way that nothing else can transform you into Christ?

I mentioned to my brother-in-law who is Protestant that the TRUTH is very important and he told me that getting to Heaven is more important. But how do you get to Heaven? What is a way to Heaven? Jesus right? Of course. And what did Jesus say that He is? He is the Way, the Truth & the Life. The Truth is what sets you free. And being Free is being in Heaven with Jesus! So please think about what the Truth could be.

Alegra,
Do you honestly want to know what Im afraid of ? I fear for your soul and that you won’t make it to heaven because of the error of the Catholic teaching. I used to be Cathoic myself, even was considering becoming a Nun, because I thought that was the ultimate devotion to God until I realized in Gods word that God is no respector of persons and we are all equal in the eyes of God, and I can live a normal life devoted to God with more intensity then I ever dreamed of. I know what it means to be born again and filled with the Holy Spirit and have deep communion with God and fullfill His will for my life and have assurance of Salvation, and knowing I am complete in Christ and His sacrifice for all my sins. It really doesn’t get any better then that honestly.
Even the very devout Catholics that i know, don’t seem to have that personal relationship and closeness with Jesus that I see alot of Christians have. Christians have fellowship with one another, pray from the heart for one another, they don’t memorize prayers and misselets (however you spell that). Bible studies and worship are from the heart in Spirit and in Truth. We also have communion and pass the bread and grape juice, but we do not crucify the Lord Jesus again and again, but we remember all that He did, and we read those passages of the Lords last supper and crucifiction to remember His agony for us. But we don’t believe in the transsubstanciation of the bread.
Jesus also said He was the door, do we make doors into Jesus ? Jesus said He was the vine and we are the branches, do we make vines into Jesus ?

Christians used to witness to me as a Catholic, they asked me the same questions about Mary,praying to saints and her, and you know what, I defended my catholic faith the way most of you are in this forum now. But God had to show me the truth and He did, personally, and rather miraculously, now I have a very personal relationship with my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and i am more fully aware of how deep that can go.

May God show you this love : )

 

[Eden]

JesusHasMyHeart:

John 8:31-32 Jesus said, "If you continue in My Word you are my disciples indeed,
32 and you shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free.

Here Jesus is telling us if you truly are His disciple then you would continue (live by, set heart on and be a doer of the word not hearer only) in His word.

Wait. Where does it say His “written Word”? Where? Words are oral or written. Sounds like the “deposit of faith” Christ and the apostles entrusted to the Catholic Church.

 

[JSmitty2005]

JesusHasMyHeart:

I fear for your soul and that you won’t make it to heaven because of the error of the Catholic teaching. I used to be Cathoic myself

JesusHasMyHeart, I fear for your soul because there is no salvation outside of the Catholic Church. There are few exceptions but certainly an ex-Catholic cannot claim invincible ignorance. I will pray for you.

 

[Eden]

JesusHasMyHeart:

I’m sticken (sic) with the Word of God.

Me too - written and oral.

 

[JSmitty2005]

Eden:

Me too - written and oral.

Indeed. Catholics believe in sola dei verbum, but NOT sola scriptura.

 

[Eden]

JesusHasMyHeart:

Awe, maybe that is why you crucify over and over the Lord Jesus at every mass, as if His once for all death on the cross wasn’t sufficient enough for all eternity, just a thought.

You were once Catholic and you think the sacrifice of the Mass is a *new *crucifixion each time? You are thinking in human terms - terms by which God is not limited. Mass is the ONCE FOR ALL sacrifice of Christ at Calvary.

Please read the CA library before making these claims. A simple search will put you quickly on your way to understanding what the Church really teaches.

catholic.com/thisrock/1990/9006chap.asp

 

[Eden]

JesusHasMyHeart:

I used to be Cathoic myself, even was considering becoming a Nun, because** I** thought that was the ultimate devotion to God until I realized in Gods word that God is no respector of persons and we are all equal in the eyes of God, and I can live a normal life devoted to God with more intensity then I ever dreamed of

Please show me in the Catechism where it says the Church teaches that nuns are better than everyone else.

(Hint: You can’t)

So, because *you *“thought” something, that makes it true?

 

[Eden]

JesusHasMyHeart:

I know what it means to be born again and filled with the Holy Spirit

John 3:5 refers specifically to water baptism. Read what early Christians say about John 3:5 -

Justin Martyr

As many as are persuaded and believe that what we [Christians] teach and say is true, and undertake to be able to live accordingly, and instructed to pray and to entreat God with fasting, for the remission of their sins that are past, we pray and fast with them. Then they are brought by us where there is water and are regenerated in the same manner in which we were ourselves regenerated. For, in the name of God the Father . . . and of our Savior Jesus Christ and of the Holy Spirit [Matt. 28:19], they then receive the washing with water. For Christ also said, "Unless you are born again, you shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven" (*First Apology *61 [A.D. **151]).

Irenaeus

“And [Naaman] dipped himself . . . seven times in the Jordan” [2 Kgs. 5:14]. It was not for nothing that Naaman of old, when suffering from leprosy, was purified upon his being baptized, but [this served] as an indication to us. For as we are lepers in sin, we are made clean, by means of the sacred water and the invocation of the Lord, from our old transgressions, being spiritually regenerated as newborn babes, even as the Lord has declared: “Except a man be born again through water and the Spirit, he shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven” (Fragment 34 [A.D. **190]).

Tertullian

No one can attain salvation without baptism, especially in view of the declaration of the Lord, who says, “Unless a man shall be born of water, he shall not have life” (Baptism 12:1 [A.D. 203]).

Hippolytus

The Father of immortality sent the immortal Son and Word into the world, who came to man in order to wash him with water and the Spirit; and he, begetting us again to incorruption of soul and body, breathed into us the Spirit of life, and endued us with an incorruptible panoply. If, therefore, man has become immortal, he will also be God. And if he is made God by water and the Holy Spirit after the regeneration of the laver he is found to be also joint-heir with Christ after the resurrection from the dead (*Discourse on the Holy Theophany *8 [A.D. **217]).

The Recognitions of Clement

But you will perhaps say, “What does the baptism of water contribute toward the worship of God?” In the first place, because that which has pleased God is fulfilled. In the second place,** because when you are regenerated and born again of water and of God**, the frailty of your former birth, which you have through men, is cut off, and so . . . you shall be able to attain salvation; but otherwise it is impossible. For thus has the true prophet [Jesus] testified to us with an oath: “Verily, I say to you, that unless a man is born again of water . . . he shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven” (*The Recognitions of Clement *6:9 [A.D. 221]).

Cyprian

[When] they receive also the baptism of the Church . . . then finally can they be fully sanctified and be the sons of God . . . since it is written, **“Except a man be born again of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God” **(*Letters *71[72]:1 [A.D. 253]).

Much more here:

catholic.com/thisrock/2002/0210frs.asp

Now, show me some early Christian quotes which say that John 3:5 refers to your Protestant understanding of “born again”.

(Hint: You can’t)

 

[Eden]

JesusHasMyHeart:

Even the very devout Catholics that i know, don’t seem to have that personal relationship

Where in the Bible does it say Jesus is supposed to be our buddy? Where in the Bible does Jesus tell us that to be saved we must “accept Him as our Lord and Savior”, say the Sinner’s Prayer and henceforth be assured of our own personal salvation?

(Hint: You can’t)

and closeness with Jesus that I see alot of Christians have.

How dare you judge what is in another’s heart! Pride.

 

[Eden]

JesusHasMyHeart:

Christians have fellowship with one another, pray from the heart for one another, they don’t memorize prayers and misselets (however you spell that).

Firstly, Catholics are the first Christians. Don’t come on to a Catholic forum and suggest that Catholics are not Christian! It won’t be tolerated.

Secondly, Catholics pray in many different ways. Some of the ancient prayers we pray are quite beautiful. I love the diversity of the prayer life of Catholicism - especially because “from the heart” prayer sessions sometimes involve the person praying out loud’s ego. I want the focus to be on God - something which ancient prayers accomplish - not on how clever each person’s “prayer from the heart” is.

 

[Eden]

JesusHasMyHeart:

We also have communion and pass the bread and grape juice

Grape juice didn’t even exist in the time of Christ as it could not safely be produced. Jesus turned water into wine, not grape juice. It’s a mockery to use grape juice.

but we do not crucify the Lord Jesus again and again,

Nor do we. It’s a ONCE FOR ALL sacrifice.

but we remember all that He did, and we read those passages of the Lords last supper and crucifiction to remember His agony for us.

As do we.

But we don’t believe in the transsubstanciation of the bread.

Not believing in the transubstantiation is blasphemy. Teaching that the consecrated Eucharist is not the literal Body and Blood of Christ is a Protestant invention, not the Word of God.

Jesus also said He was the door, do we make doors into Jesus ? Jesus said He was the vine and we are the branches, do we make vines into Jesus ?

No. Nor did the disciples say that “it is a hard saying” when Christ said these things because they knew that they were metaphors but they knew the Body and Blood was meant literally.
This one is so obvious!

Please do not claim that the Body and Blood of Christ are symbolic again on this website until after you read www.scripturecatholic.com - the section on the Eucharist. There is too much scriptural evidence that you are wrong to post here.

 

[Eden]

JesusHasMyHeart:

Christians used to witness to me as a Catholic

Again you have stated that Catholics are not Christian. This is highly insulting!

But God had to show me the truth and He did, personally, and rather miraculously, now I have a very personal relationship with my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and i am more fully aware of how deep that can go.

May God show you this love : )

Sadly, you have been deceived by false teachers. May the Holy Spirit guide you back to Truth.

they asked me the same questions about Mary,praying to saints and her, and you know what, I defended my catholic faith the way most of you are in this forum now.

By the way, it is a common tactic of Protestants to come on here and fill a post with 10 or 20 accusations in one or two posts, as you have. It would be much better if you would post one thread for each topic so they all get the attention they deserve. Thanks.

 

[JesusHasMyHeart]

Eden:

Wait. Where does it say His “written Word”? Where? Words are oral or written. Sounds like the “deposit of faith” Christ and the apostles entrusted to the Catholic Church.

Why do you wrestle with the Word of God ? Why don’t you believe in the inherrant Word ? Because you are told to by your authorities. Well just to let you know, you have been lied to, and you have been told that the Catholic church preceeds the authority even of the word of God. You have believed man over the Word of God. If you are told that from childhood you will believe it no matter how off it is.

You are looking at the bible through the lense of the Catholic church, when you should be looking at the bible through the lense of the Holy Spirit.

The word of God is a true record and final authority.
2 Peter 3:16
As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things;
in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrestle with, as they do also other scriptures, unto their own destruction. Read on