National Sunday Law Takes Affect!

[SDA2RC]

Well, thanks…I dunno, the disciples did not fully understand the first coming of Christ, so it could be the same in the last days to EVERYONE more than ANYONE knows…the Bible is nothing but tons of parallels to then and now.

But do any of you at least agree that there will be a time of trouble as has never been where there is total chaos?

I do, and I personally think we are near the end.

 

[mommyof4]

But do any of you at least agree that there will be a time of trouble as has never been where there is total chaos?

Yep. When I tell my kids they have to help clean the house AND the barn this weekend.

Globally? I honestly just don’t know.

 

[SDA2RC]

Goitalone,
Will you do me a favor and read the this article and give me your comments on it. Thanks

 

[goitalone]

I have seen this debate over and over about what the true Sabbath is, so I would like to ask the OP a question, or any other SDA on here.

Have you ever considered WHY God made those 10 Commandments? What His reasoning was behind them all?

Do you just accept them as instructions without pondering why we are to follow them?

The reason I ask is simple.

It is quite clear why God would write in stone “Thou shalt not kill”.
God created life, life is sacred to Him, so He is telling us that no one has the right but Him to end a life.

God wrote in stone “Thou shalt not commit adultery”. God wishes us to go forth and multiply, within a loving marriage that He has been present at. He created our sexual organs for the sole purpose of producing children within a loving environment and the sanctity of marriage.

Now, why would He carve in stone “Thou shalt honour the Sabbath” ?

The answer simply is, to ensure we have one day a week put aside to rest, just as He did after He created us, and a day to worship Him, and give praise to all He has done.

Why is it such an issue to the SDAs what day of the week this is done? As long as it is done, I cannot see God worrying too much over what day it is, especially as days of the week are a man made thing, that is, the names of them, and the order.

I truly do not understand why it matters if some of us observe a Sabbath on Saturday, and some of us observe it on a Sunday.

Also, where is it written that it must be ALL mankind ALL at once observing the Sabbath?

Is the word “Saturday” in the Bible? Please clear up for me what specifically states the week ends on a Saturday.
Thank you

I respect what you are saying but I still cannot agree with you as I fully believe what I have said previously to be very important to not only us as human beings, but by the Creator.

I am tired honestly tired of going over the same thing though…I posted all this is another cxouple of threads here called Videos All Should Watch…and another thread as well but at this point I dont remember the name…wait…

…it was by MarysRoses…it was called>> a question for goitalone

So, forgive me but just too tired and stressed from typing…go read the other threads if you like though.

 

[goitalone]

Goitalone,
Will you do me a favor and read the this article and give me your comments on it. Thanks

k give me a moment tho…I still need to backtrack to yer previous post and read the link you had in it.

UPDATE: eww…pdf…that means I gotta go get Adobe again (just reformatted pc a few days ago)

 

[Pug]

Well, we will all know in the end I guess…I just want to be ready that’s all I know.

p.s.

well…everyone to be ready …as much as possible

Those who wait on the Lord will not be put to shame. (Isaiah 49:23 paraphrase). Lots of people here, including myself, understand what you mean about having a bit of fear based on knowing ourselves (what you said about smoking and heaven).

And this place will suck up your time like a vacuum cleaner! We have whole threads devoted to whining about this.

And yes, I think there will be tribulation, many troubles, chaos as you say, perhaps you might describe it as a final unleashing of evil, and then Christ will come (parousia). There are other things with it as well, but usally Catholics aren’t very specific about the end times compared with some Christian groups.

 

[SDA2RC]

k give me a moment tho…I still need to backtrack to yer previous post and read the link you had in it.

UPDATE: eww…pdf…that means I gotta go get Adobe again (just reformatted pc a few days ago)

LOL… dont worry about it tonight, but if you could look at them tomorrow and respond that would be great… I know its getting late. I probably wont be on too much longer.

 

[goitalone]

LOL… dont worry about it tonight, but if you could look at them tomorrow and respond that would be great… I know its getting late. I probably wont be on too much longer.

Yeah, that sounds good then…I will take a look and get back with you tomorrow for sure though.

 

[kleary]

While I agree that Sunday has replaced the jewish Sabbath, I do not agree that it was foretold in the bible, and I don’t believe it was directly started by the RCC.

From what I have studied, Constantine, the Roman Emperor who converted to Christianity after a dream he had before a battle, established Christianity in the Roman world, made it the religion to be in. While many believe him to have been a devout christian after his conversion, my research only shows him to be a superstitious pagan, at best. He also worshipped the Sun god, which, from what I can tell, is why we worship on Sun-day. I believe it was a way to bring his pagan beliefs together with his christian beliefs. An early form of ecumenism.

This was only remotely related to the post, just my two cents. Hopefully you learned something, or will, at best, go research my claims for yourself.

I did and found your research to be wrong. I found that Sunday Worship was well established BEFORE CONSTANTINE.

The Didache
“But every Lord’s day . . . gather yourselves together and break bread, and give thanksgiving after having confessed your transgressions, that your sacrifice may be pure. But let no one that is at variance with his fellow come together with you, until they be reconciled, that your sacrifice may not be profaned” (Didache 14 [A.D. 70]).

The Letter of Barnabas
“We keep the eighth day [Sunday] with joyfulness, the day also on which Jesus rose again from the dead” (Letter of Barnabas 15:6–8 [A.D. 74]).

Ignatius of Antioch
“[T]hose who were brought up in the ancient order of things * have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord’s day, on which also our life has sprung up again by him and by his death” (Letter to the Magnesians 8 [A.D. 110]).

Justin Martyr
“[W]e too would observe the fleshly circumcision, and the Sabbaths, and in short all the feasts, if we did not know for what reason they were enjoined [on] you—namely, on account of your transgressions and the hardness of your heart. . . . [H]ow is it, Trypho, that we would not observe those rites which do not harm us—I speak of fleshly circumcision and Sabbaths and feasts? . . . God enjoined you to keep the Sabbath, and imposed on you other precepts for a sign, as I have already said, on account of your unrighteousness and that of your fathers . . .” (Dialogue with Trypho the Jew 18, 21 [A.D. 155]).

“But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Savior on the same day rose from the dead” (First Apology 67 [A.D. 155]).

Tertullian
“[L]et him who contends that the Sabbath is still to be observed as a balm of salvation, and circumcision on the eighth day . . . teach us that, for the time past, righteous men kept the Sabbath or practiced circumcision, and were thus rendered ‘friends of God.’ For if circumcision purges a man, since God made Adam uncircumcised, why did he not circumcise him, even after his sinning, if circumcision purges? . . . Therefore, since God originated Adam uncircumcised and unobservant of the Sabbath, consequently his offspring also, Abel, offering him sacrifices, uncircumcised and unobservant of the Sabbath, was by him [God] commended [Gen. 4:1–7, Heb. 11:4]. . . . Noah also, uncircumcised—yes, and unobservant of the Sabbath—God freed from the deluge. For Enoch too, most righteous man, uncircumcised and unobservant of the Sabbath, he translated from this world, who did not first taste death in order that, being a candidate for eternal life, he might show us that we also may, without the burden of the law of Moses, please God” (An Answer to the Jews 2 [A.D. 203]).

The Didascalia
“The apostles further appointed: On the first day of the week let there be service, and the reading of the holy scriptures, and the oblation [sacrifice of the Mass], because on the first day of the week * our Lord rose from the place of the dead, and on the first day of the week he arose upon the world, and on the first day of the week he ascended up to heaven, and on the first day of the week he will appear at last with the angels of heaven” (Didascalia* 2 [A.D. 225]).

Origen
“Hence it is not possible that the [day of] rest after the Sabbath should have come into existence from the seventh [day] of our God. On the contrary, it is our Savior who, after the pattern of his own rest, caused us to be made in the likeness of his death, and hence also of his resurrection” (Commentary on John 2:28 [A.D. 229]).

Ken*

 

[kleary]

As we have seen worship on Sunday was well established, even before the time of the above quotes that date to the first century. Scripture itself claims that we assemble on “The Lord’s Day” which is Sunday and not Saturday.

Constantine had nothing to do with it.

If Sunday worship was wrong, then where are the Seventh Day Protesters against Sunday worship when it was already well established in the first century?

Ken

 

[kellie]

I am tired honestly tired of going over the same thing though…I posted all this is another cxouple of threads here called Videos All Should Watch…

So, forgive me but just too tired and stressed from typing…go read the other threads if you like though.

Ok, I forget time difference between there and Australia, so I will post and you can answer this later. I went to the thread you started about videos to watch and found these posts by you.

goitalone:

No one here ever said they knew the hour of His return now did they? But it’s not hard to see it’s near. Bible prophecy makes that way too clear.

And the only flaw of the Sabbath truth is most have forgotten REMEMBER it to keep it and to keep it holy.

Why would God wrote it in stone with His own finger with great importance starting that COMMANDMENT ONLY out with REMEMBER?

Because He knew most of the world would forget it and take up Sunday.

God did not sanctify it or REST on Sunday, nor does it say anywhere in the Bible to keep the first day holy or to rest on that day.

We are to obey God and His Word, not just because some religious group say’s to, but because the Bible does.

goitalone:

What day is the seventh day?

I think we all know its Saturday…just look up the word Saturday in these languages and see how it is spelled and pronounced…example, el sábado in Spansih or
sabato in Italian, sábado in Portuguese, Russian в субботу. Greek, Σάββατο

goitalone:

God say’s he blessed ONE day, the seventh day and where in the Bible does it have ANY English days of the week?

Nowhere, because the english language didn’t exsist then. So the Lord used the numders of the days.

As can be seen, there is no Biblical reference to what day of the week the Sabbath is, which supports my previous post about why does it matter, so long as one day is held.

You are saying that the Sabbath is Saturday due to languages that cropped up after God laid down His laws?

As another poster in that thread said, that is NOT keeping within the SDA tradition of sola scriptura is it?

So please answer why it is so important that the Sabbath be Saturday?

 

[goitalone]

oops

 

[kellie]

oops

oops , you’re wrong?

 

[goitalone]

oops , you’re wrong?

no oops I posted something I am not yet finished with yet in reply to your question

 

[goitalone]

So please answer why it is so important that the Sabbath be Saturday?

For one thing, the commandment says to remember it which I believe has be long been forgotten by most of the world (at least as to keep it holy)…the Lord knew it would be forgotten by many to be kept holy and sacred.

2nd: It also says to THE Sabbath day, not A sabbath day.

3rd:…the 4th commandment(3rd by Catholic count) has the SEAL OF GOD written within it:

Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD MADE HEAVEN AND EARTH, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

A seal is typically made up of three things; the kings name, his title and his domain:

Example 1(President):
His Name:George Bush
His title: President
His domain: United States of America

Example 2(God):
His Name: The Lord
His title: Made (Creator)
His Territory: heaven and earth

The fourth commandment is the only one of all the ten in which are found both the name and the title of the Lawgiver. Without this commandment there is no hint as to who wrote the law or why we should listen to or obey its claims. It is the only one that shows by whose authority the law was given. In this sense it contains the seal of God, affixed to His law as evidence of its authenticity and binding force

4th reason: God rested on the seventh day, Sabbath (Genesis) and Jesus worshipped on the Sabbath day Luke 4:16

5th: God blessed the seventh day, Sabbath.

6th: God sanctified or made holy the seventh day, Sabbath.

7th reason: Bible prophecy says the beast will think to change times and laws and the 4th commandment IS a TIME and a LAW in itself. Daniel 7:25

8th: In the NT: There remains a rest (sabbatismos in greek ) to the people of God Hebrews 4:9

**sabbatismoV,n {sab-bat-is-mos’}

1. a keeping sabbath 2) the blessed rest from toils and troubles looked for in the age to come by the true worshippers of God and true Christians **

greekbible.com/index.php

9th: It is one of the 10 commandments

10th reason:The Apostles kept it…

And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them, and three sabbath days reasoned with them out of the scriptures,
ACTS 17:2

and

And he reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath, and persuaded the Jews and the Greeks. Acts 18:4

11th:Jesus looking down the corridor of time seeing people in the last days said… But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: Matthew 24:20
For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.
Matthew 24:21

12th: Gentiles worshipped on the Sabbath day:
And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.ACTS 13:42

and

Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant; Isaiah 56:6

13th:The deciples knew how important it was to Jesus that they did not even finish enbalming His body after He had died, they waited and came back early Sunday after the Sabbath had passed.

 

[goitalone]

14th:

Jesus even said:
(in diff translations)

NASB: "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill.

GWT: "Don’t ever think that I came to set aside Moses’ Teachings or the Prophets. I didn’t come to set them aside but to make them come true.

KJV: Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.

ASV: Think not that I came to destroy the law or the prophets: I came not to destroy, but to fulfil.

BBE: Let there be no thought that I have come to put an end to the law or the prophets. I have not come for destruction, but to make complete.

DBY: Think not that I am come to make void the law or the prophets; I am not come to make void, but to fulfil.

WEY: "Do not for a moment suppose that I have come to abrogate the Law or the Prophets: I have not come to abrogate them but to give them their completion.

WBS: Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill.

WEB: "Don’t think that I came to destroy the law or the prophets. I didn’t come to destroy, but to fulfill.

YLT: 'Do not suppose that I came to throw down the law or the prophets I did not come to throw down, but to fulfil;

15th reason:Jesus NEVER said the Sabbath didn’t matter anymore.

16th:I believe God’s Word, not mans.

17th:23:54 And that day was the preparation, and the sabbath drew on. Luke 23:54

18th reason:The Bible tells us when the Sabbath begins and ends:
It shall be unto you a sabbath of rest, and ye shall afflict your souls: in the ninth day of the month at even, from even unto even, shall ye celebrate your sabbath.
Leviticus 23:32
(And at even, when the sun did set, Mark 1:32)

19th:Luke who was also a Gentile rested and kept the Sabbath:
And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.
Luke 23:56

20th reason: Jesus rested even in death the whole Sabbath day until after the Sabbath had past…it was that important to Him.

21st reason: We will keep it in Heaven: (if we make it there)
For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD. Isaiah 66:22,23

 

[goitalone]

22nd:The Sabbath IS the Lords Day: **But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: ** in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: Exodus 20:10

and

Therefore the Son of man IS Lord also of the sabbath. Mark 2:28

23rd: He said not to do your own pleasures on the Sabbath day: If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words: Isaiah 58:13

24th reason: Sunday worship was created by man:

But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. Matthew 15:9

“The earliest recognition of the observance of Sunday,” says The Encyclopedia Brittanica, “is a constitution of Constantine in 321 A.D., enacting that all courts of justice, inhabitants of towns, and workshops were to be at rest on Sunday.” Vol. XXIII, p. 654. They didn’t call it the Lord’s Day, but “the venerable day of the sun.” The day on which the pagans from ancient times worshipped the sun.

“The Catholic church, by virtue of her divine mission, changed the day from Saturday to Sunday.” (The Catholic Mirror, official organ of Cardinal Gibbons, Sept. 23, 1893).

Q.Which is the Sabbath day?
A. Saturday is the Sabbath day.
Q.Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?
A. We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday.
Q.Why did the Catholic Church substitute Sunday for Saturday?
A. The Church substituted Sunday for Saturday, because Christ rose from the dead on a Sunday, and the Holy Ghost descended upon the Apostles on a Sunday.

Peter Geiermann, C.S.S.R., The Converts Catechism of Catholic
Doctrine (1957), p. 50.

Perhaps the boldest thing, the most revolutionary change the Church ever did, happened in the first century. The holy day, the Sabbath, was changed from Saturday to Sunday. “The Day of the Lord” (dies Dominica) was chosen, not from any directions noted in the Scriptures, but from the Church’s sense of its own power. The day of resurrection, the day of Pentecost, fifty days later, came on the first day of the week. So this would be the new Sabbath. People who think that the Scriptures should be the sole authority, should logically become 7th Day Adventists, and keep Saturday holy.

Source: Sentinel, Pastor’s Page (Fr. Leo Broderick), Saint Catherine Catholic Church, Algonac, Michigan, May 21, 1995.

Here are more great reasons:

In Matthew 5:19 Jesus says: Whosoever therefore shall break ONE of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Ezekiel 20:12 To be a sign for us and Him: Moreover also I gave them my sabbaths, to be a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD that sanctify them.

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is GUILTY of all.

Her priests have violated my law, and have profaned mine holy things: they have put no difference between the holy and profane, neither have they shewed difference between the unclean and the clean, and have HID their eyes from my sabbaths, and I am profaned among them. Ezekiel 22:26

And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.
Revelation 12:17

Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus. Revelation 14:12

And finally keeping the ALL the commandments (including the Sabbath) we inherit the tree of life and Heaven

Blessed are they that DO his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Revelation 22:14

How many times does the Bible say to keep the FIRST day?

You know the answer.

 

[kellie]

You still have not shown that Scripture says the Sabbath is Saturday.

So Constantine declared it to be Sunday.

Couldn’t that be just making it official what the Catholic Church consider to be their seventh day???

The Bible states to keep the seventh day holy.

That is what we do.

You have no proof God meant Saturday, as He had no name for the seventh day.

Do you not think the purpose behind God’s order was to ensure we kept at least one day holy for Him???

What is your opinion on why God would state it HAS to be Saturday?

 

[goitalone]

I have given you your answer…well the Bible Did…and I knew you would not be able to see it…we all know what the seventh day of the week is and it has never been changed…so its up to you to believe whatever you want.

One last point…in over 105 languages the word for the Saturday is Sabbath.

Look it up.

 

[kellie]

The Russians call Saturday “Sabbath” but call Tuesday “Second”.

So if Tuesday is the 2nd day, Sunday is the seventh, no matter what they call Saturday.

That is one of the 105 languages.

As can be seen, whatever Sabbath or Saturday translates into is flawed sometimes.

So we go back to the proper source, the Bible, and that says the 7th day.

You still have not answered why God would want a specific named day, as opposed to the seventh day in our counting.

He just made it to sound so specific to stay mysterious??? I think not.