National Sunday Law Takes Affect!

[RNRobert]

Why can’t you even try to answer the rebuttal? He gave Expert Jewish Scholarship concerning the Sabbath. At least be a man and try to interact with it.

God has taken our stand for us. God chose the Pope, Mary, and Sunday.

He won’t because he can’t. We’ve given evidence that shows SDA claims are bogus, and repeatedly asked for evidence to prove his assertions, and all he can do are “lateral arabesques” because the evidence isn’t there.

I feel sorry for him I truly do. I almost got taken in by that group.

 

[servus]

Christ did not die because we broke the Sabbath. The Original Sin of Adam and Eve was in disobeying God’s commandment regarding eating from the tree of good and evil.
I’m not an expert on the ECF, other Catholics who are better versed on them can refute your claims better.
I will say this though: I know when when somebody is contradicting itself. SDA literature says that that Christians did not worship on Sunday until Constantine changed it. Goitalone made the same claim in post 244. When we proved from the ECF that Christians were worshipping on Sunda, you came here with this song and dance that it started in the 2nd century as a way to “honor Jesus.” So,
which version of the SDA “gospel” is correct?
Also, the letter from St Ingatius that Joey Warren quoted a few posts ago (which states that they are worshiping on the Lord’s Day instead of the Sabbath) was written in the first few years of the 2nd century, and since Ignatius learned the faith from the mouth of the Apostle John himself, indicates that Sunday worship must have been going on for some time, i.e., in the first century.

A couple questions:

The early Christians vigorously opposed any attempts to distort or corruprt their faith, and many accepted a martyr’s death rather than compromise one iota. If Sabbath keeping was that important to the early Christians as you claim, why did they roll over on this issue?
Jesus claimed he would “be with us always” and the “gates of hell would not prevail” against his church. If Sabbath keeping was that important, why did God allow his church to be corrupted, and why we he allow his followers to be deluded for centuries until “prophetess” E.G. White appeared in the 19th century to show them the way?
Please don’t mention any “secret underground church.” Secular history records many sects who broke away from the Catholic Church through the centuries, but none ever broke away due to an issue over Sabbath-keeping. In White’s literature the only groups she mentions are the Waldensians and the Albigensians. Neither one was Sabbatarian, and the Albigeneses were recycled Manicheans who thought ritual suicide was a virtue.

A few posts back I posted a link to itsjustdave1988’s blog that had an article about the Sabbath. I’ve decided to post it here in its entirety. The words in bold are the original:

So your saying that the Sabbath came from moon worship, and it was not a common practice of the Jews before or after the exile? This is called Higher Criticism. If you could believe it, there are actually athiests out there, calling themselves Chrisitans, who attempt to “discover” when the Judeo-Christian faith was invented by semites and pagans. These are the same people who consider every book of the Bible to be Pseudopigrapha.

We could either defend our religion, and contend for the faith once delivered to the saints by using sound Biblical concepts…or poke and nag at eachother using Biblical criticism which does not have teaching value, but is a destructive theory.

My Bible does not say God got the idea of asking Sabbath observance of His creatures…because it was a cool thing the Sumerians were doing. My Bible does not say that God hung out on Sinai because a hot moon goddess kicked it there. God made the universe and everything in it in six days, and rested the seventh…this is why He asked us to obsevre the 7th day…as a mermorial of creation…so we would not forget our making. He then said later “remember it” once again on account of creation. I don’t care what “Jewish Scholarship” says. Jesus said the Sabbath was “made for man” (Mark 2:27-28) not for man to trample on, but to be a blessing.

This “Jewish Scholarship” is coming from the same people who say Christ is not the Messiah. I would not listen to them tell me “you can keep the Sabbath any day without upsetting the commmandment”. Scripture is its own Theology, its own Philosophy, and does not need the help of “Jewish Scholarship”.

Pax,

Servus

 

[JoeyWarren]

This “Jewish Scholarship” is coming from the same people who say Christ is not the Messiah. I would not listen to them tell me “you can keep the Sabbath any day without upsetting the commmandment”. Scripture is its own Theology, its own Philosophy, and does not need the help of “Jewish Scholarship”.

Interesting point. So I guess your bible has the missing 7 books that were taken out of the KJV in 1829 at the behalf of the American Bible Society? After all it is these same people that make the claim they are not inspired just as the NT is not inspired?

Whenever the subject of the Deutorcanonicals comes up there is always one statement that is made:

“The Jews don’t recognize them as inspired by God.”

But like all things Satan only wants you to know part of the truth. He keeps the rest concealed and builds upon the one truth.

So where do people get the idea that Jews don’t believe they are inspired by God? Because that is what they been told. The source of the truth is hardly ever disclosed to average Christian. So what is the source? The Jamnia Council(Synod).

Council of Jamnia occurred around 92 AD. They made at least 5 Judgements that we know of against Christians.

A. Jesus is not the promised Messiah
B. Made the distinction between Jews and Heretics(Christians)
C. Expelled Christians from the Synagogues
D. They redefined Canon of the Tanach

 They set up 4 criteria that all books had to meet in order to be included. 

 1. The books had to conform to the Pentateuch (the first 5 books). 
 2. The books had to be written in Hebrew. 
 3. The books had to be written in Palestine.
 4. The books had to be written before 400 B.C..  

Baruch was not written in Palestine. Disqualified by reason 3.
Sirach and 1Maccabees were written after 400 B.C.. Disqualified by reason 4.
Tobit and parts of Daniel and Esther were written in Aramaic and outside of Palestine. 
Disqualified by reasons 2 and 3.
Judith was written in Aramaic. Disqualified by reason 2.
Wisdom was written in Greek. Disqualified by reason 2.
2Maccabees was written after 400 B.C. and in Greek. Disqualified by reasons 2 and 4.
New Testament disqualified by reason 2 and 4.

E: They added to their daily blessings which all Jews are required to read everyday this curse of Christians:

Officially called the “Birkat ha-minim”

“For the Apostates let there be no hope and the arrogant government be speedily uprooted in our days, Let the Nazarenes(Christians)and the minim(Heretics) be destroyed in a moment. Let them be blotted out of the Book of Life and not inscribled together with the Righteous. Blessed art thou oh Lord, who humblest the Proud.”

Why did the Jews do this?

The Temple was completely destroyed in 70 AD.
All the Priests were killed.
They were fearful that Christianity would overtake them.
They wanted to remove references that would be useful to Christians.

Prior to the birth of Christ, the Canon of the Tanach was the Alexandrian Canon a.k.a the Septuagint.

 

[servus]

Interesting point. So I guess your bible has the missing 7 books that were taken out of the KJV in 1829 at the behalf of the American Bible Society? After all it is these same people that make the claim they are not inspired just as the NT is not inspired?

Whenever the subject of the Deutorcanonicals comes up there is always one statement that is made:

“The Jews don’t recognize them as inspired by God.”

But like all things Satan only wants you to know part of the truth. He keeps the rest concealed and builds upon the one truth.

So where do people get the idea that Jews don’t believe they are inspired by God? Because that is what they been told. The source of the truth is hardly ever disclosed to average Christian. So what is the source? The Jamnia Council(Synod).

Council of Jamnia occurred around 92 AD. They made at least 5 Judgements that we know of against Christians.

A. Jesus is not the promised Messiah
B. Made the distinction between Jews and Heretics(Christians)
C. Expelled Christians from the Synagogues
D. They redefined Canon of the Tanach

 They set up 4 criteria that all books had to meet in order to be included. 

 1. The books had to conform to the Pentateuch (the first 5 books). 
 2. The books had to be written in Hebrew. 
 3. The books had to be written in Palestine.
 4. The books had to be written before 400 B.C..  

Baruch was not written in Palestine. Disqualified by reason 3.
Sirach and 1Maccabees were written after 400 B.C.. Disqualified by reason 4.
Tobit and parts of Daniel and Esther were written in Aramaic and outside of Palestine. 
Disqualified by reasons 2 and 3.
Judith was written in Aramaic. Disqualified by reason 2.
Wisdom was written in Greek. Disqualified by reason 2.
2Maccabees was written after 400 B.C. and in Greek. Disqualified by reasons 2 and 4.
New Testament disqualified by reason 2 and 4.

E: They added to their daily blessings which all Jews are required to read everyday this curse of Christians:

Officially called the “Birkat ha-minim”

“For the Apostates let there be no hope and the arrogant government be speedily uprooted in our days, Let the Nazarenes(Christians)and the minim(Heretics) be destroyed in a moment. Let them be blotted out of the Book of Life and not inscribled together with the Righteous. Blessed art thou oh Lord, who humblest the Proud.”

Why did the Jews do this?

The Temple was completely destroyed in 70 AD.
All the Priests were killed.
They were fearful that Christianity would overtake them.
They wanted to remove references that would be useful to Christians.

Prior to the birth of Christ, the Canon of the Tanach was the Alexandrian Canon a.k.a the Septuagint.

Joey Warren,

Protestants reject the Apocrypha because the Jews did before the time of Christ and “unto them were committed the oracles of God” (Romans 3:2) Christ never referenced the apocryphal books, nor did the Apostles. Jerome rejected the extra seven books calling them “Apocryphal” (Adversus Vigilantius).

Furthermore, the content of the Apocrypha contradicts much in the other books of the Old Testament. The book of 2 Maccabees concerning the persecution by Antiochus Epiphanes IV (although real events) presents a false interpretation of the prophecies of Daniel. And so forth…

Many protestant Bibles do in fact have apocrypha in them. I have two protestant Bibles which contian apocrypha. Many Protestants consider them as history, but not on hte same level as Scripture.

Servus

 

[JoeyWarren]

Jews did before the time of Christ

That is not even historically correct. The accepted Canon at the time was the Alexandrian Canon(Septaugint). The Palenstinian Canon(Hebrew) did not even exist until after the Council of Jamnia.

And for the Romans 3:2 blurb is only valid up to the point of Jesus birth. Anything the Jews did after Christ’s ressurection is not binding on Christians.

You really need to stay away from those SDA history people. They are teaching you error and that has been shown to you before on this thread.

 

[Mommyof02green]

Protestants reject the Apocrypha because the Jews did before the time of Christ

The Jews before the 2nd century A.D. did not appear to have a rigidly defined OT canon.

Source: users.binary.net/polycarp/apocry.html

The Hellenist (Greek speaking) Jews also include seven apocryphal books. Early Christians received the Bible by way of the Hellenist Jews, and thus were familiar with the seven books of the Apocrypha.

At least until the Council of Jamnia in AD 92, Jews did not have a single unified canon of Scripture. Some ancient Jewish sects (including the Essenes, as evidenced in the Dead Sea scrolls) included as Scripture much that modern Jews consider non-canonical. The Council explicitly excluded certain books for reasons that included their late composition or because they were not written in Hebrew (although some parts of the Hebrew Bible or Tanakh itself are in biblical Aramaic). The word Apocrypha means hidden writing, and it was given to such books by the Jews to distinguish them from the books which they accepted as canonical.

Source: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_apocrypha

In other words the Jews DID NOT HAVE have set define canon BEFORE 90-200 AD

THE “APOCRYPHA”: WHY IT’S PART OF THE BIBLE <–clickable link

 

[goitalone]

No the 144,000 are only the first fruits who are sealed out of the living in the last days.

They go and gather their brethren from all nations, which make up the great multitude.

There are many millions to be saved. But the Scriptures say only 1/3 of the people are saved though.

Read Zech 13: 8 And it shall come to pass,
that in all the land, saith the LORD, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein.

This is just before the time of trouble and 7 last plagues fall upon the earth.

The angels are holding back the winds of war right now and we are in the sixth seal as we speak…this is what the prophecies of the Bible shows us as clear as day!

REV 7:3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.

REV 7:4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

REV 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

REV 7:13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?

REV 7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

REV 7:15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

 

[goitalone]

The Sunday Law is going to bring about world wide catastrophe as the angels will then release the four winds upon the earth …then it’s the time of trouble…not sure how long that lasts…I have heard maybe it could be 3 and a half years…but no one knows for sure I don’t think…it’s plenty of time for the persecution of the church etc though I am sure.

Then the plagues fall.

 

[goitalone]

testing avatar dont work

TEST

 

[Mommyof02green]

No the 144,000 are only the first fruits who are sealed out of the living in the last days.

The number 12 = a complete cycle; a universal completeness.
i.e. ALL of Israel was composed of 12 tribes.

12 is totality so 12 x 12 is total total
i.e. everything and everyone

Multiply the number by 10, 100, or 1,000 means much more
i.e. innumerable; endless

The number 144,000 is
12 x 12 x 1,000 = 144,000

Rev 7:4 (144,000) = the complete number of saints, an innumerable amount of saints.

Nobody was to take the tally literally.

Numbers in the bible have "meanings"

Did you ever wonder Why did God created the world in 7 days?

Did you ever wonder Why was the number of fish caught in the net was 153? (John 21:11)

Did you ever wonder why it was 3 days until the resurrection?

Or, way you are to forgive your brother 70 times 7 times? (Mathew 18:22)

 

[goitalone]

NEWS:

The 18 member states that have already ratified the EU constitution are gathering on Friday (26 January) to discuss how to swing the political debate around to their side of the fence, with the nine countries who have stopped the ratification process continuing to steal the political limelight.

The 18 countries, plus Ireland and Portugal, who also consider themselves “friends of the constitution” as the gathering is being called, are meeting in Madrid to set out political tactics, look at elements of the constitution that could be altered, and challenge non-EU constitution states to come clean on what they want from the process.

“We have to know why the others have difficulties and where their problems lie,” Spanish foreign minister Miguel Angel Moratinos told Germany’s FT Deutschland ahead of the meeting.

euobserver.com/9/23345/?rk=1

This is the constitution with the Vatican paragraphs enshrining Roman Catholicism as the religious heritage of Europe, presumably in the full spirit of ecumenism.

 

[goitalone]

The number 12 = a complete cycle; a universal completeness.
i.e. ALL of Israel was composed of 12 tribes.

12 is totality so 12 x 12 is total total
i.e. everything and everyone

Multiply the number by 10, 100, or 1,000 means much more
i.e. innumerable; endless

The number 144,000 is
12 x 12 x 1,000 = 144,000

Rev 7:4 (144,000) = the complete number of saints, an innumerable amount of saints.

Nobody was to take the tally literally.

Numbers in the bible have "meanings"

Did you ever wonder Why did God created the world in 7 days?

Did you ever wonder Why was the number of fish caught in the net was 153? (John 21:11)

Did you ever wonder why it was 3 days until the resurrection?

Or, way you are to forgive your brother 70 times 7 times? (Mathew 18:22)

It’s 12x12,000 …the fact is it IS literal…just as it was a literal as with King David when he had 288, 000 praising the Lord in the temple…144,000 responsible for the fall feasts and 144,000 for the spring feasts.

12x 12,000=144,000

1CHRON 27:1 Now the children of Israel after their number, to wit, the chief fathers and captains of thousands and hundreds, and their officers that served the king in any matter of the courses, which came in and went out month by month throughout all the months of the year, of every course were twenty and four thousand.

1CHRON 27:2 Over the first course for the first month was Jashobeam the son of Zabdiel: and in his course were twenty and four thousand.

1CHRON 27:3 Of the children of Perez was the chief of all the captains of the host for the first month.

1CHRON 27:4 And over the course of the second month was Dodai an Ahohite, and of his course was Mikloth also the ruler: in his course likewise were twenty and four thousand.

1CHRON 27:5 The third captain of the host for the third month was Benaiah the son of Jehoiada, a chief priest: and in his course were twenty and four thousand.

1CHRON 27:6 This is that Benaiah, who was mighty among the thirty, and above the thirty: and in his course was Ammizabad his son.

1CHRON 27:7 The fourth captain for the fourth month was Asahel the brother of Joab, and Zebadiah his son after him: and in his course were twenty and four thousand.

1CHRON 27:8 The fifth captain for the fifth month was Shamhuth the Izrahite: and in his course were twenty and four thousand.

1CHRON 27:9 The sixth captain for the sixth month was Ira the son of Ikkesh the Tekoite: and in his course were twenty and four thousand.

1CHRON 27:10 The seventh captain for the seventh month was Helez the Pelonite, of the children of Ephraim: and in his course were twenty and four thousand.

1CHRON 27:11 The eighth captain for the eighth month was Sibbecai the Hushathite, of the Zarhites: and in his course were twenty and four thousand.

1CHRON 27:12 The ninth captain for the ninth month was Abiezer the Anetothite, of the Benjamites: and in his course were twenty and four thousand.

1CHRON 27:13 The tenth captain for the tenth month was Maharai the Netophathite, of the Zarhites: and in his course were twenty and four thousand.

1CHRON 27:14 The eleventh captain for the eleventh month was Benaiah the Pirathonite, of the children of Ephraim: and in his course were twenty and four thousand.

1CHRON 27:15 The twelfth captain for the twelfth month was Heldai the Netophathite, of Othniel: and in his course were twenty and four thousand.

 

[goitalone]

Anyway, as I said before, the 144,000 are to make ready the last days people as they are the last days disciples to get people to follow the truth and come out of Babylon the Great.

 

[itsjustdave1988]

The Sunday Law is going to bring about world wide catastrophe…

Nobody in their right mind should believe such non-biblical rubbish.

 

[itsjustdave1988]

… Jerome rejected the extra seven books calling them “Apocryphal” …

See here:

How big is your book of Daniel?

You’ll see that the Protestant claims with regard to their truncated Bible are simply untrue when compared to the evidence of history.

 

[Mommyof02green]

It’s 12x12,000 …the fact is it IS literal…just as it was a literal as with King David when he had 288, 000 praising the Lord in the temple…144,000 responsible for the fall feasts and 144,000 for the spring feasts.

YOUR interpretation is that it is a literal finite number.

My interpretation said that is has “meaning” and it’s not supposed to be a finite number.

What make “YOUR” interpretation right and “MINE” wrong?

How do you know that you have the “right” interpretation?

 

[Mommyof02green]

euobserver.com/9/23345/?rk=1 This is the constitution with the Vatican paragraphs enshrining Roman Catholicism as the religious heritage of Europe, presumably in the full spirit of ecumenism.

Where in the article does it mention the Vatican?
Where in the article did they talk about ecumenism?
Where in the article did they talk about religion?

I read the article… It had 0 info regarding the Vatican.
I read the article… It had 0 info regarding ecumenism.
I read the article… It had 0 info regarding religion.

If you are going to make clams like that then you need to “prove” it; not just state them sorry!
Frankly, I’m tried of these empty statements regarding Catholicism.
Frankly, I’m tried of these empty statements regarding “Sunday Law”.

Why don’t you wait until you have some “meat and potatoes” to give us?
**In other words, give us some real facts, not just your empty opinions on these things. **

Waiting for the REAL FACTS…

 

[goitalone]

It’s what the Bible says, not me.

It plainly tells of a day there will come a time where we cannot buy or sell unless we…well, you know the rest

 

[goitalone]

Everyone knows the Pops is calling for UNITY.

Have you seen the news about Romania lately?

It’s beginning to happen right before your eyes and you cannot even see it… it IS real.

 

[Mommyof02green]

It’s what the Bible says, not me.

It is your interpretation of the scripture that said this. How do you know that your interpretation is right?