Near Death Experience But Doesn't Convert

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Father Mitch Pacwa of EWTN has a wonderful analogy for this “GOD pours graces on us” its like someone pouring water over your head with a hose. But if you don’t open your mouth you will not drink it. So for the graces if you don’t open your heart and mind those graces will totally bypass you.

Peace!
 
Excellent podcast from Catholic Answers own Jimmy Akin

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MYS027: The Mystery of Near-Death Experiences

Some people claimed to have died and come back to life and reported strange experiences of life after death. Jimmy Akin and Dom Bettinelli look at the claims, the scientific evidence, and the implications for faith of these near-death experiences.
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redcatholic said:
I’ve yet to see an account of an NDE that knew of two hospital employees having relations in the hospital. Or what a social security number on a paper in the billing department said. Etc.
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Information such as the NDE experiencing person leaves the room and finds a friend or family member alone either in the hospital chapel or lobby and is able to recall the words they said and their actions.

Why would a dying person be interested in searching through the employees only part of the hospital for inappropriate behavior? Why on Earth would a NDE person even want to go to the billing department to look at social security numbers? You do realize how ridiculous your expectations are right? An NDE is a powerful experience and people will seek out family or friends not hanky panky between hospital employees or the billing department! Nonsense!
 
lwest said:
He saw himself on the operating table and felt a tremendous peace.
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Then you have to ask him how he can explain consciousness without brain activity. It seems that he hasn’t thought much about his experience and the deep implications.
 
Were I (as a non-believer) to have a near death experience of the type usually described it would not lead me to convert to Catholicism since no aspect of Catholic belief other than (possibly) a survival of a non-material aspect of ‘me’ would be suggested by the experience. This could be the base of a new-found belief in anything from satanism to pantheism.

Even then I would doubt the ‘spiritual’ nature of the experience. All NDEs I have read have been reported with a clear experience of time and events sequenced within time. Outside the material world there can be no time. So there’s an immediate point of doubt.

I really can’t see that they have any more reality than dreams although they seem to be remembered more easily.
 
Dan_Defender said:
Then you have to ask him how he can explain consciousness without brain activity. It seems that he hasn’t thought much about his experience and the deep implications.
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I have heard someone use the analogy that the brain and consciousness are like the radio and radio waves. the brain is the radio and it could be broken and damaged beyond repair but the radio wave is like the consciousness who’s existence is dependent on God and therefore cant be destroyed is still around even if the radio it is assigned to is broken.

something like that.
 
Duke12VonFalkenburg said:
I have heard someone use the analogy that the brain and consciousness are like the radio and radio waves. the brain is the radio and it could be broken and damaged beyond repair but the radio wave is like the consciousness who’s existence is dependent on God and therefore cant be destroyed is still around even if the radio it is assigned to is broken.

something like that.
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But then the radio waves should be random images or past memories not a clear picture of present activity from above the operating table.
 
Dan_Defender said:
But then the radio waves should be random images or past memories not a clear picture of present activity from above the operating table.
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I think you misunderstand. Its just an analogy. Not meant to be taken literally.
 
Duke12VonFalkenburg said:
I think you misunderstand. Its just an analogy. Not meant to be taken literally.
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I understand. But it is worth pointing out that it is not a good analogy. Either all is matter and any consciousness is connected to the brain or it is connected to an immortal soul which is part of a body/soul composite.
 
I think NDEs are interesting but I think people make them out to be more than they are. Just my opinion but the first thing to note is that they are NEAR death experiences…not death experiences.
Also, people of different faiths have them and often they conform to their faith. Christians will see angels, demons or Jesus. Hindus see the avatars of their gods. Muslims see Mohammed. Almost all tend to see long gone family members.

Studies show that the lack of oxygen in the brain will trigger the tunnel with the light at the end and can be replicated with drugs.

Our brains are amazing organs and just like dreams are our brains way of cataloging information, NDEs seem to trigger “stories” or scenes. Every study that’s been done, as far as I know, have shown that the patient is unable to identify any hidden items and only can state things visible in the OR.

Maybe I’d feel different if I’d ever had one? That hard to say how I’d feel if I had one and all I can reasonably go by are the scientific studies that try to eliminate biases of patients and doctors. YMMV.
 
You should read the book by Christine Watkins called “The Warning.” It’ll make you think twice.
 
What you mean is “they aren’t consistent with the theology of my religion”.
 
Pattylt said:
NEAR death experiences…not death experiences.
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Just want to clarify. The reason it is called “Near death” is because the person eventually comes back. A true NDE case is marked by a stopped heart and no brain activity. Thus for a moment they are essentially dead. Yet they somehow despite being in this state are able to see and hear what is happening around them.
 
Duke12VonFalkenburg said:
stopped heart and no brain activity.
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I agree that their hearts stop but I question the bit about no brain activity. Most surgeries where NDEs happen don’t have the patient hooked up to a brain monitor. There may be cases where this has been done, I’m not sure. Usually even in a true death, the persons electrical activity in the brain continues for a bit after the heart stops. I’ll have to read up on this a bit more as I haven’t looked into it in a while. I do know that our metabolism throws everything it can at the brain to help it survive, shutting down all other processes first. Our brains make sure our brains get top priority!
 
I have read about some cases where the doctors were sure the patient had no brain activity due to the nature of the operation and declared that it would be impossible for the brain receive new information.

Even if there is still some minuscule electric activity while unconscious under anesthesia and a stopped heart how do you explain that the NDE person is able to see themselves and the doctors and be able to recall the movements, actions, and words of the doctors? How can they receive visual information while in this physical state? How can they leave the room to visit isolated friends and family and recall words/actions they said while they are alone in a lobby, parking lot, or chapel?
 
I don’t have answers. I’m just skeptical that these stories are what actually happened and aren’t embellished. Sorry, my skeptical meter just doesn’t take these stories as facts unless is was done under controlled circumstances. Perhaps I’m being too skeptical! How likely are you to believe a NDE where a person claims to have met Mohammed and assured that Islam is true? We all have a skeptical meter and mine tends to be quite high. Every one of the stories that were scientifically examined were found to be embellished or just not conclusive enough to prove anything like what was claimed. Could they be a glimpse into the “other world”? Right now, my feeling is no. They are a glimpse into our brain rapidly firing and creating scenes that seem very real.
 
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