Need advice on Mormon Missionary's

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I do believe that the original poster may have gotten his or her desired affect: a thread to trash mormonism. Not a surprise at all. Returning to the original OP:

Hi I’ve been recently visited by 2 mormon missionary’s and invited to their church. The people are friendly, very earnest in their beliefs. My dilemma is that i like these people and their friendship but the more i learn about this religion the more farfetched it seems. I feel i don’t have the right to “put down” someone else’s beliefs. The missionarys have an answer to all my questions so much so it leaves my head swimming. The forum seems a great place to put forward opinions, but I’m dealing face to face and i don’t know what to say. I’m a little worried of getting in to deep because the community spirit is so enticing. Any ideas people?

So innocent and yet… :rolleyes:
 
From the wiki:

Sarah Ann Whitney (22 March 1825 in Kirtland, Ohio - 4 September 1873 in Salt Lake City, Utah) is recognized as the sixteenth woman to marry Joseph Smith, Jr., founder of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.[1]

ANYBODY can upload information to Wikipedia, it is far from an authoritative source. The version of the story you posted is totally whitewashed, it doesn’t even mention the “special revelation” Smith received in order to convince the parents. If you dig a little deeper, you’ll find an entirely different version of that story; including the text of the “special revelation.”

Her close friend, Helen Mar Kimbell, was 14 when Smith married her. Sarah Ann Whitney eventually became one of Heber Kimbell’s 39 wives.
 
Your use of words seems to be extremely bias. It is not easy to have a discusssion with you because you use explosive vocabulary designed for affect. Words such as ‘preying’, illicit, lure etc can release tension but they do not create discussion.
Lack of discussion occurs when you choose to critique how I say something, rather than address what I said.

You changed the subject whyme, and now how I speak, or write, is the discussion. Rather pointless, don’t you think?
 
Lack of discussion occurs when you choose to critique how I say something, rather than address what I said.

You changed the subject whyme, and now how I speak, or write, is the discussion. Rather pointless, don’t you think?
The use of words carrying connotations. And your use of words carrying strong connotations. What should be discussed? The content of your posts or your use of connotations? You know very well the image that your words convey and this is why you use them.
 
When strong words are chosen, they reflect strong feelings. There is nothing wrong with strong feelings, so long as the individual chooses to act ethically in response to them.

This is another LDS manipulation, telling people they have no right to their feelings. I am sure that those girls taken in adultery (rape) were told the same, themselves.
 
I was born and raised jw, I also am stuck because my whole community is in the Jw church.

And the catholic church dose not SEEM to have anything to replace it, that means you canot completely leave the jw’s.

I have not investigated the Lds church, so I can’t comment on it.

However I don’t see what is wrong with remaining a part of a community untill it is replaced by another.

Jw’s offer friendship with a price, you MUST remain an active member of there church.

I guess one canot completely leave the jw’s until community is found in the catholic church. Its unfortunate but isolation is dangerous, and that is exactly what will happen if one community is abandoned before its replaced by another.

You can try joining catholic groups that could have activities once a month, Or if this internet sight works for you that is fine.

However I can’t comment on Lds church…only the jw church.
 
The use of words carrying connotations. And your use of words carrying strong connotations. What should be discussed? The content of your posts or your use of connotations? You know very well the image that your words convey and this is why you use them.
I believe I was quite clear in my meaning.
 
I do believe that the original poster may have gotten his or her desired affect: a thread to trash mormonism. Not a surprise at all. Returning to the original OP]

So innocent and yet… :rolleyes:
Sorry I’ve been absent I have no computor access on sundays:)
So WhyMe to answer a few of your Questions?
This was never a set up I found this site while looking for answers, when i said the Elders have an answer for everything, they do, its just not satisfactory for my inquiring mind. Anytime I had a question it was deflected with “Have you read the BoM” and “Pray about it”
I was discouraged from researching anymore as that was the devil trying to keep me from seeing the truth. I was also told if I didnt see the truth it was because my Faith wasn’t strong enough for the Truth to be revealed to me. It’s one thing to be able to give your opinion in a forum anonymously you get a chance to be heard, quite another to be in a room with anyone who’s utterly opposed to any questions concerning their religion. This led me to the internet and God only know how, this web site. I value everybody’s comments I’m not out to Mormon bash or trash. Melmac
 
why me;33 said:
:eek:
Orson Pratt’s Wife, Sarah
“Sometime in late 1840 or early 1841, Joseph Smith confided to his friend that he was smitten by the “amiable and accomplished” … for the Lord had given her to him as a special favor for his faithfulness” (emphasis in original). Shortly afterward, the two men took some of Bennett’s sewing to Sarah’s house. During the visit, as Bennett describes it, Joseph said, “Sister Pratt, the Lord has given you to me as one of my spiritual wives. I have the blessings of Jacob granted me, as God granted holy men of old, and as I have long looked upon you with favor, and an earnest desire of connubial bliss, I hope you will not repulse or deny me.” “And is that the great secret that I am not to utter,” Sarah replied. “Am I called upon to break the marriage covenant, and prove recreant to my lawful husband! I never will.” She added, “I care not for the blessings of Jacob. I have one good husband, and that is enough for me.” But according to Bennett, the Prophet was persistent.Finally Sarah angrily told him on a subsequent visit, “Joseph, if you ever attempt any thing of the kind with me again, I will make a full disclosure to Mr. Pratt on his return home. Depend upon it, I will certainly do it.” “Sister Pratt,” the Prophet responded, “I hope you will not expose me, for if I suffer, all must suffer; so do not expose me. Will you promise me that you will not do it?” “If you will never insult me again,” Sarah replied, “I will not expose you unless strong circumstances should require it.” “If you should tell,” the Prophet added, “I will ruin your reputation, remember that.”(Article “Sarah M. Pratt” by Richard A. Van Wagoner, Dialogue, Vol.19, No.2, p.72. Also see: xmission.com/~country/reason/spratt.htm)

William Law’s Wife, Jane
"William Law, a former counselor in the First Presidency, wrote in his 13 May 1844 diary: “[Joseph] ha lately endeavored to seduce my wife, and ha found her a virtuous woman” The Laws elaborated on this in a public meeting shortly thereafter. "The Prophet had made dishonorable proposals to [my] wife . . . under cover of his asserted ‘Revelation,’ " Law stated. He further explained that Joseph came to the Law home in the middle of the night when William was absent and told Jane that “the Lord had commanded that he should take spiritual wives, to add to his glory.” Law then called on his wife to corroborate what he had said. She did so and further explained that Joseph had “asked her to give him half her love; she was at liberty to keep the other half for her husband” Jane refused the Prophet, and according to William Law’s 20 January 1887 letter to the Salt Lake Tribune, Smith then considered the couple apostates. . . . Law asserted. “Joseph is the liar and not she. That Smith admired and lusted after many men’s wives and daughters, is a fact, but they could not help that. They or most of them considered his admiration an insult, and treated him with scorn. In return for this scorn, he generally managed to blacken their reputations–see the case of . . . Mrs. Pratt, a good, virtuous woman.”
(“Mormon Polygamy” by Richard S. Van Wagoner, page 44)

Hiram Kimball’s wife, Sarah
Sarah M. Kimball, a prominent Nauvoo and Salt Lake City Relief Society leader was also approached by the Prophet in early 1842 despite her solid 1840 marriage to Hiram Kimball. Sarah later recalled that

“Joseph Smith taught me the principle of marriage for eternity, and the doctrine of plural marriage. He said that in teaching this he realized that he jeopardized his life; but God had revealed it to him many years before as a privilege with blessings, now God had revealed it again and instructed him to teach with commandment, as the Church could travel [progress] no further without the introduction of this principle.” (“LDS Biographical Encyclopedia” By Elder Andrew Jensen, 6:232, 1887)
Sarah Kimball, like Sarah Pratt, was committed to her husband, and refused the Prophet’s invitation, asking that he “teach it to someone else.” Although she kept the matter quiet, her husband and Smith evidently had difficulties over Smith’s proposal. On 19 May 1842, at a Nauvoo City Council meeting, Smith jotted down and then “threw across the room” a revelation to Kimball which declared that “Hiram Kimball has been insinuating evil, and formulating evil opinions” against the Prophet, which if he does not desist from, he “shall be accursed.” Sarah remained a lifetime member of the Church and a lifelong wife to Hiram Kimball.
  • “LDS Biographical Encyclopedia” By Elder Andrew Jensen, 6:232, 1887, Official History of the Church 5: 12-13,
Sidney Rigdon’s daughter, Nancy
When Smith proposed marriage in April 1842 to Nancy Rigdon, nineteen-year-old daughter of his close friend and counselor, Sidney Rigdon, he reportedly took her into a room, “locked the door, and then stated to her that he had had an affection for her for several years, and wished that she should be his.” Nancy refused him, saying she would only marry a single man. The following day Smith explained in a letter to her: “That which is wrong under one circumstance, may be, and often is, right under another.” He added, “Whatever God requires is right, no matter what it is, although we may not see the reason thereof.” She remained unconvinced. Nancy, her brother John, and her brother-in-law George W. Robinson testified in sworn affidavits that the Joseph Smith had proposed “spiritual marriage” to her. Smith publicly denied the accusations. (“The Letter of the Prophet, Joseph Smith to Miss Nancy Rigdon,” Joseph Smith Collection, LDS archives; History of The Church 5:134-36. Sidney Rigdon Biography, Richard S. Van Wagoner, Chapter 21)

This doesn’t look on the up and up to me. J Smith co-erced and threatened if he didn’t get his way he “blackened” their names.
 
why me;33 said:
:eek:
Orson Pratt’s Wife, Sarah
“Sometime in late 1840 or early 1841, Joseph Smith confided to his friend that he was smitten by the “amiable and accomplished” … for the Lord had given her to him as a special favor for his faithfulness” (emphasis in original). Shortly afterward, the two men took some of Bennett’s sewing to Sarah’s house. During the visit, as Bennett describes it, Joseph said, “Sister Pratt, the Lord has given you to me as one of my spiritual wives. I have the blessings of Jacob granted me, as God granted holy men of old, and as I have long looked upon you with favor, and an earnest desire of connubial bliss, I hope you will not repulse or deny me.” “And is that the great secret that I am not to utter,” Sarah replied. “Am I called upon to break the marriage covenant, and prove recreant to my lawful husband! I never will.” She added, “I care not for the blessings of Jacob. I have one good husband, and that is enough for me.” But according to Bennett, the Prophet was persistent.Finally Sarah angrily told him on a subsequent visit, “Joseph, if you ever attempt any thing of the kind with me again, I will make a full disclosure to Mr. Pratt on his return home. Depend upon it, I will certainly do it.” “Sister Pratt,” the Prophet responded, “I hope you will not expose me, for if I suffer, all must suffer; so do not expose me. Will you promise me that you will not do it?” “If you will never insult me again,” Sarah replied, “I will not expose you unless strong circumstances should require it.” “If you should tell,” the Prophet added, “I will ruin your reputation, remember that.”(Article “Sarah M. Pratt” by Richard A. Van Wagoner, Dialogue, Vol.19, No.2, p.72. Also see: xmission.com/~country/reason/spratt.htm)

William Law’s Wife, Jane
"William Law, a former counselor in the First Presidency, wrote in his 13 May 1844 diary: “[Joseph] ha lately endeavored to seduce my wife, and ha found her a virtuous woman” The Laws elaborated on this in a public meeting shortly thereafter. "The Prophet had made dishonorable proposals to [my] wife . . . under cover of his asserted ‘Revelation,’ " Law stated. He further explained that Joseph came to the Law home in the middle of the night when William was absent and told Jane that “the Lord had commanded that he should take spiritual wives, to add to his glory.” Law then called on his wife to corroborate what he had said. She did so and further explained that Joseph had “asked her to give him half her love; she was at liberty to keep the other half for her husband” Jane refused the Prophet, and according to William Law’s 20 January 1887 letter to the Salt Lake Tribune, Smith then considered the couple apostates. . . . Law asserted. “Joseph is the liar and not she. That Smith admired and lusted after many men’s wives and daughters, is a fact, but they could not help that. They or most of them considered his admiration an insult, and treated him with scorn. In return for this scorn, he generally managed to blacken their reputations–see the case of . . . Mrs. Pratt, a good, virtuous woman.”
(“Mormon Polygamy” by Richard S. Van Wagoner, page 44)

Hiram Kimball’s wife, Sarah
Sarah M. Kimball, a prominent Nauvoo and Salt Lake City Relief Society leader was also approached by the Prophet in early 1842 despite her solid 1840 marriage to Hiram Kimball. Sarah later recalled that

“Joseph Smith taught me the principle of marriage for eternity, and the doctrine of plural marriage. He said that in teaching this he realized that he jeopardized his life; but God had revealed it to him many years before as a privilege with blessings, now God had revealed it again and instructed him to teach with commandment, as the Church could travel [progress] no further without the introduction of this principle.” (“LDS Biographical Encyclopedia” By Elder Andrew Jensen, 6:232, 1887)
Sarah Kimball, like Sarah Pratt, was committed to her husband, and refused the Prophet’s invitation, asking that he “teach it to someone else.” Although she kept the matter quiet, her husband and Smith evidently had difficulties over Smith’s proposal. On 19 May 1842, at a Nauvoo City Council meeting, Smith jotted down and then “threw across the room” a revelation to Kimball which declared that “Hiram Kimball has been insinuating evil, and formulating evil opinions” against the Prophet, which if he does not desist from, he “shall be accursed.” Sarah remained a lifetime member of the Church and a lifelong wife to Hiram Kimball.
  • “LDS Biographical Encyclopedia” By Elder Andrew Jensen, 6:232, 1887, Official History of the Church 5: 12-13,
Nancy Rigdon, nineteen-year-old daughter of his close friend and counselor, Sidney Rigdon, he reportedly took her into a room, “locked the door, and then stated to her that he had had an affection for her for several years, and wished that she should be his.” Nancy refused him, saying she would only marry a single man. The following day Smith explained in a letter to her: “That which is wrong under one circumstance, may be, and often is, right under another.”… (“The Letter of the Prophet, Joseph Smith to Miss Nancy Rigdon,” Joseph Smith Collection, LDS archives; History of The Church 5:134-36. Sidney Rigdon Biography, Richard S. Van Wagoner, Chapter 21)

This doesn’t look on the up and up to me. J Smith co-erced and threatened if he didn’t get his way he “blackened” their names.
 
Hi melmac, I have mormon friends and tons of mormon family. We get a long great as long as we don’t discuss religion. And politics. 😃

regarding polygamy…I know mormon women who don’t know about the things you are bringing up. And I know mormon women who defend polygamy.

The strangest ones are those that believe the practice to be very disgusting, while at the same time singing the praises of Smith. I call this the “mormon disconnect”. If you hang around mormons long enough you’ll notice this with more than the subject of polygamy.
Hi Rebecca, last night i was invited to dinner and some more “love bombing” minus the love. It got intense, to say the least. This lady i spoke to refused to believe JS had 33 wives said that she didn’t know where i was getting my information from and that she felt sorry for me because basically i was being led down the garden path by the devil also known as the internet. It was bizarre. In her own conversion to LDS she didn’t need to research or even read the BoM because it just made sense and she knew it to be true. Can’t argue with that.
 
Can’t argue with that.
Nope, you can’t. At least not at this time, with that person. There are many mormons who keep to “safe” reading materials, ie, only material that can be purchased at Deseret Book or the mormon distribution center. And, “safe” internet sites such as lds.org.

I have known people who are exiting mormonism, and their spouse is not. And in these cases, the mormon spouse refuses to read anything that doesn’t come from these “safe” sources.

Smith’s polygamy can be shown from these sources. Deseret Book carries Compton’s book “In Sacred Loneliness”. A book that documents Smith’s wives. And familysearch.org lists some of his wives.

Still, it can be quite a shock as Smith is portrayed within mormonism as a monogamist. For example, mormon church’s site josephsmith.com only mentions his marriage to his first wife Emma. It mentions nothing about his polygamy.

This is the “milk before meat” that you hear people referencing in regards to mormonism. The meat is hidden from potential converts. Not just polygamy but mormon doctrines that are clearly far and away outside of Christianity.
 
I was thinking this morning that if this lady is happy in her ignorance i should leave well enough alone. Last night they attacked catholicism, again there wasn’t much to say to someone who has been fed a distorted view of history. And has a filtered view of catholics.
 
I was thinking this morning that if this lady is happy in her ignorance i should leave well enough alone. Last night they attacked catholicism, again there wasn’t much to say to someone who has been fed a distorted view of history. And has a filtered view of catholics.
I know that thought, and have left well alone many times. It is almost impossible to have a discussion with mormons about religion. Anything you say that is contrary to their belief or view is seen as wrong at best, attacking them personally at the worst.

The only time I have been able to have a true discussion with a mormon, about religion, is when they have asked me a question first. This doesn’t happen often.
 
:eek:
Orson Pratt’s Wife, Sarah
“Sometime in late 1840 or early 1841, Joseph Smith confided to his friend that he was smitten by the “amiable and accomplished” … for the Lord had given her to him as a special favor for his faithfulness” (emphasis in original). Shortly afterward, the two men took some of Bennett’s sewing to Sarah’s house. During the visit, as Bennett describes it, Joseph said, “Sister Pratt, the Lord has given you to me as one of my spiritual wives. I have the blessings of Jacob granted me, as God granted holy men of old, and as I have long looked upon you with favor, and an earnest desire of connubial bliss, I hope you will not repulse or deny me.” “And is that the great secret that I am not to utter,” Sarah replied. “Am I called upon to break the marriage covenant, and prove recreant to my lawful husband! I never will.” She added, “I care not for the blessings of Jacob. I have one good husband, and that is enough for me.” But according to Bennett, the Prophet was persistent.Finally Sarah angrily told him on a subsequent visit, “Joseph, if you ever attempt any thing of the kind with me again, I will make a full disclosure to Mr. Pratt on his return home. Depend upon it, I will certainly do it.” “Sister Pratt,” the Prophet responded, “I hope you will not expose me, for if I suffer, all must suffer; so do not expose me. Will you promise me that you will not do it?” “If you will never insult me again,” Sarah replied, “I will not expose you unless strong circumstances should require it.” “If you should tell,” the Prophet added, “I will ruin your reputation, remember that.”(Article “Sarah M. Pratt” by Richard A. Van Wagoner, Dialogue, Vol.19, No.2, p.72.

This doesn’t look on the up and up to me. J Smith co-erced and threatened if he didn’t get his way he “blackened” their names.
This story is much more complicated than what you just wrote or pasted.Sara became under the influence of an antimormon John C. Bennett who wrote a book after he left the church called: History of the Saints. According to Bennett he joined the church to expose the plot by JS to dominate the region between the Rockies and the Allegheny Mountains. Bennett was as anti as antis can become after he left the lds church. Here is Bennett: If this Mormon villain (JS) is suffered to carry out his plans, I warn the people of these United States, that less than twenty years will see them involved in a civil war of the most formidable character. They will have to encounter a numerous and ferocious enemy, excited to the utmost by fanaticism and by pretended revelations from god, and led on by reckless, ambitious, and, in some aspects, able scoundrels, who will not pause in the excution of the projects…crush the reptile (the lds) before it has grown powerful enough to sting them to the death…(from Rough Stone Rolling by Bushman)

And from this piece, an editor of a newspaper wrote: the mormons are “more diabolical, more dangerous and more deserving of destruction than any that can be found in the darkest dungeon in the land” (From Rough Stone Rolling by Bushman)

This man Bennett accused JS of making advances to Sara Pratt. Bennett went on to detail other conversations that he had with Sara. On the other hand, stories were circulated that Sara and Bennett were having an affair and affidavits were signed in that regard. One affadavitt stated that Bennett had “illicit intercourse” with Sara.

There is more to the story than meets the eye. Life was not that much different than today, except today, we have ‘tell all’ media programs and publications.
 
On the other hand, stories were circulated that Sara and Bennett were having an affair and affidavits were signed in that regard. One affadavitt stated that Bennett had “illicit intercourse” with Sara.
There is more to the story than meets the eye. Life was not that much different than today, except today, we have ‘tell all’ media programs and publications.
Of course, those affidavits where written by JS associates, all members in good standing in that heretical cult of plural marriage and the Mark of Cain.

THAT’S really good evidence there, whyme.

Look at the letters JS wrote. Look at his life.

Look at his LACK of “discerning through the Holy Spirit.”

He was a fraud and so was the “religion” he foisted on those people.

Robert
 
Of course all these rumors caused problems among the mormons. But Bennett wanted the complete destruction of mormonism and riled up many people against the mormons. He caused a lot of hate and ill will. But later Orson Pratt (sara’s husband) and Sara were rebaptized in the lds church and Orson went on to take four other wives by the time he left Nauvoo. What or who to believe in the sara pratt case? Difficult to say. Sara was a faithful member and again left the church, and 40 years after the event (and when her husband Orson died) and after she left the church, she backed up Bennett’s claims. But can she be believed?
 
Rumors were perhaps spread by both sides. But difficult to know who to believe in the sara case.
 
Of course, those affidavits where written by JS associates, all members in good standing in that heretical cult of plural marriage and the Mark of Cain.

THAT’S really good evidence there, whyme.

Look at the letters JS wrote. Look at his life.

Look at his LACK of “discerning through the Holy Spirit.”

He was a fraud and so was the “religion” he foisted on those people.

Robert
During that time the mormons had many enemies that sought their complete destruction. And it is no different today. When one goes into past mormon history and the antimormons, the waters become murky indeed. Fact: The lds church has survived intact. And if today the same persecution persists, it will also survive. It stands on its own merits.
 
During that time the mormons had many enemies that sought their complete destruction. And it is no different today. When one goes into past mormon history and the antimormons, the waters become murky indeed. Fact: The lds church has survived intact. And if today the same persecution persists, it will also survive. It stands on its own merits.
Whyme,
you need to declare yourself honestly. You are a mormon stooge who claims to be Catholic. I believe you to be mormon. It is dishonest to fly false colors. You defend the false religion of mormonism just like a true-blue mormon. Please start telling the truth about who you really are.
 
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