Need an explanation please... the rosary

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JesusIsTheWay

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I was doing a little research and I am finding a contradiction and I was hoping for a little feedback… The prayer of the rosary…

Looking at the process fo praying to the rosary I see there is a lot of repetition. Now the part where I see the contradiction come in is that the Bible specifically warns against this…

In Matthew 6:7 we read, “…when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.”

First and foremost we see that the Scriptures declare we must NOT repeat prayers, especially vain ones. Doing so is directly described as an attribute of the heathen. In these articles the Pope is going directly against Scripture by suggesting PUBLIC praying of the rosary, as well as VAIN prayer. In Matthew 6:6, we read that, “…when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.”

I’m seeing some issues with this??

Can someone explain?
 
First and foremost we see that the Scriptures declare we must NOT repeat prayers, especially vain ones.
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No, it says we must not have vain repetition. It does not state anything negative about repetition in and of itself.

If someone said “Don’t use the name of the Lord in vain,” would you read that to mean we are never to use the name of the Lord? Of course not.

Jesus repeats the same prayer three times in the garden of Gethsemane.

The point Jesus was getting at was the mere piling up of words for no purpose other than to think more words will gain favor. But that isn’t the point of the Rosary. The point of the Rosary is to meditate on the life of Christ. The repetition in the prayer is supposed to keep you focused on the meditation of the mysteries. If you find yourself losing that focus and just blabbering words, then the prayer does little good - but this would be true of any prayer, repeated or not.

Repetition has little or nothing to do with the point Jesus is making here. In fact, I often find myself blabbing incessantly when trying to just talk with God in an unstructured way. I think I’d be better off sometimes just reciting a few Hail Mary’s for my intentions rather than talking about the intentions themselves.
 
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JesusIsTheWay:
IFirst and foremost we see that the Scriptures declare we must NOT repeat prayers, especially vain ones.
First of all you have to decide if “vain” applies to the prayer or the repetition. If it applies to the prayer then you have to tell me why the rosary is a vain prayer. If it is the prayer that is vain then I can repeat it as often as I like because then repetition is not vain. If “vain” applies to the repetition then explain why Jesus’ prayer in the garden of Gesthemane is ok as he repeats it three times.
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Ok then what about the second part of the question… in scripture it states that we are to pray in secret not out in the open… yet the Pope says to do it in the open… how does that work?
 
Rabbis of the day would walk about proclaiming prayers for show. We are not to copy that.
Most people I know do not go walking the streets saying a rosary [or any other prayer] out loud.
 
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cmom:
Rabbis of the day would walk about proclaiming prayers for show. We are not to copy that.
Most people I know do not go walking the streets saying a rosary [or any other prayer] out loud.
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But the POPE says that you should!.. that’s my point.

March 11, 2003 - VATICAN CITY (CNS) – Pope John Paul II encouraged Catholic young people to pray the rosary in public without shame, saying Mary would help them reach the true happiness offered only by Christ. “Humanity has a decisive need for the witness of free and courageous young people who dare to go against the current and proclaim with force and enthusiasm their own faith in God, lord and savior,” he said in a message for World Youth Day 2003. “Don’t be ashamed to recite the rosary alone, while going to school, to university or to work, along the street and on public transportation,” the pope said. “Get into the habit of reciting it among yourselves, in your groups, movements and associations; don’t hesitate to suggest its recitation at home to your parents and brothers and sisters, because it revives and strengthens the bonds between family members,” he said. The annual message to youth, which came during a year of the rosary proclaimed by the pope, was released March 11 in Italian only at the Vatican. World Youth Day 2003 will be celebrated in most dioceses April 13, Palm Sunday. This year, the U.S. observance of World Youth Day is Oct. 25-26.

See what I mean?
 
St Francis said preach always, if necessary use words. 🙂

Catholics have been gathering together for centuries to publically witness and pray together Whole communities have prayed together.

What do you think people are doing at abortion clinics.

The Holy Father is asking for youth to be a public witness to the faith of the Church. The intention is not to show off, but to be a witness. It is the intention that is important.

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The phrase “vain repetitions” in the King James Bible is a translation from a single word in the Greek–battalogeo, a word that appears nowhere else in the Bible.

Some have said that it means to “repeat over and over”, others to “stammer” or “babble.”

The context is important though. “for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.” The pagans said lengthy, repetitive prayers to increase the likelihood of their god hearing them. That is not what Christians are doing when they pray the rosary.

The rosary is a not a petitionary prayer so Jesus’ words here do not apply it. It is a meditative prayer, a spiritual exercise for the soul. You meditate on various events of the life of Jesus. The individual “prayers” are spoken to give the lips something to focus on while meditating, to help keep one’s mind from being distracted. A person praying the rosary is not so much concerned with being heard by God as he is opening his heart to what God is saying to him.

As for praying alone vs. in public, Jesus here was talking about individual prayer not communal prayer. If you are making an individual prayer, you don’t want to show off while you do so. But we know that Jesus did not comdemn communal prayer. Read the book of Acts. The first Christians prayed together daily. If Jesus had condemned that, they would have been the ones to know it.
 
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JesusIsTheWay:
Ok then what about the second part of the question… in scripture it states that we are to pray in secret not out in the open… yet the Pope says to do it in the open… how does that work?
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The issue is “what is the motivation?”.

Bad Motivations:
  • Show everyone how pius you are (like some of the Pharisees of Jesus’ time)
  • Use it like Magic to get what you want. (repeat words without praying assuming that is sufficient to get what you want, i.e. vain repetition.)
  • Use prayers to God as a way of insulting someone else listening. (for example, “Thank you God that I am not like that taxcollecter.”)
Good Motivations:
  • Praying as a group with appropriate volume to communicate within the group.
  • Setting a sincere witness to what you believe and practice. (i.e. Do not hide, just for the sake of hiding)
  • Inspiring others to the truth of God and to deepen their prayer life.
  • Encourage other to pray.
 
Racer X:
The phrase “vain repetitions” in the King James Bible is a translation from a single word in the Greek–battalogeo, a word that appears nowhere else in the Bible.

Some have said that it means to “repeat over and over”, others to “stammer” or “babble.”

The context is important though. “for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.” The pagans said lengthy, repetitive prayers to increase the likelihood of their god hearing them. That is not what Christians are doing when they pray the rosary.

The rosary is a not a petitionary prayer so Jesus’ words here do not apply it. It is a meditative prayer, a spiritual exercise for the soul. You meditate on various events of the life of Jesus. The individual “prayers” are spoken to give the lips something to focus on while meditating, to help keep one’s mind from being distracted. A person praying the rosary is not so much concerned with being heard by God as he is opening his heart to what God is saying to him.

As for praying alone vs. in public, Jesus here was talking about individual prayer not communal prayer. If you are making an individual prayer, you don’t want to show off while you do so. But we know that Jesus did not comdemn communal prayer. Read the book of Acts. The first Christians prayed together daily. If Jesus had condemned that, they would have been the ones to know it.
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Ok, so is the rosary supposed to be used for communal prayer or solitary prayer? If it is used for meditation, then that would imply that it is supposed to be used for prayer alone…

Also, if vain repetition is used in the KJV of the Bible, but is not anywhere in the original greek "battalogeo" as you said, could you please tell me what it was originally?
 
This gets into that “we must do things a certain way (either/or)” mentality versus the more Catholic “there is a time and place for different things (both/and).”

If I say Jesus was divine, does it mean He wasn’t human? Of course not. If I say that the Father is God, does it mean the Holy Spirit is not? No.

The rosary can be said publicly, it can be said privately. It can be said individually, it can be said as a group. Prayers can be said alone in your room where only God sees you, or they can be declared from the rooftops.

Jesus was admonishing those who were puffing themselves up by praying publicly. They were basically saying “Look, everyone! Look how great I am!” This is bad. Our prayers are about God. If we feel taht public prayer is for a boost to our own ego, then it is best to pray in private.

But public prayer can be a great example to many, it can be necessary when leading a group, and it can be a wonderful praise to God.

Your questions show the danger of not understanding the context of the statements in the gospels.
 
gomer tree:
This gets into that “we must do things a certain way (either/or)” mentality versus the more Catholic “there is a time and place for different things (both/and).”

If I say Jesus was divine, does it mean He wasn’t human? Of course not. If I say that the Father is God, does it mean the Holy Spirit is not? No.

The rosary can be said publicly, it can be said privately. It can be said individually, it can be said as a group. Prayers can be said alone in your room where only God sees you, or they can be declared from the rooftops.

Jesus was admonishing those who were puffing themselves up by praying publicly. They were basically saying “Look, everyone! Look how great I am!” This is bad. Our prayers are about God. If we feel taht public prayer is for a boost to our own ego, then it is best to pray in private.

But public prayer can be a great example to many, it can be necessary when leading a group, and it can be a wonderful praise to God.

Your questions show the danger of not understanding the context of the statements in the gospels.
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No, my questions are showing that I am trying to gain understanding, does it not? So if I don’t instantly agree and understand everything there is to know about certain issues, am I not worthy?

I think your assumptions are dangerous and may turn people away from the church.
 
The assumptions might be wrong concerning how you personally approach things, but many people do approach Sacred Scripture with an either/or approach.
For example we are told to call no man our father, but St Paul calls himself a “spiritual father” Does that mean St Paul lied? No! It means Scripture is not a textbook wiith one section to be pitted against another.
In the same way the Holy Father in asking for public prayer is certainly not violating a scripture passage. Scripture is not parsed one verse at a time but as an organic whole within the context on the Church who gave it to us.
The Church is the context for Scripture, not the other way around, since the Church came first, and is the reason we have Scripture in the first place.
 
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JesusIsTheWay:
Ok then what about the second part of the question… in scripture it states that we are to pray in secret not out in the open… yet the Pope says to do it in the open… how does that work?
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Do you go to a church to worship Jesus? Isn’t that a form of prayer? It is certainly out in the open. I think what Jesus is saying that when you pray do not pray in order to be noticed. Do not try to bring praise upon yourself. If you do they you will have already recieved your reward. Prayer must be for the purpose of serving God not for you to win the esteem of others.
There are instances in the Bible where the gather together and pray. Jesus blessed and gave thanks at the last supper, isn’t that prayer? Would Jesus violate his own command?
 
The Rosary is the prayer of the gospel, from beginning to end.

Contemplation (meditation, if you will) on the life of Our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.

The Mysteries of the Rosary

The Five Luminous Mysteries
Thursday

I. The Baptism in the Jordan
II. The Wedding at Cana
III. The Proclamation of the Kingdom
IV. The Transfiguration
V. The Institution of the Eucharist

The Five Joyful Mysteries
Monday & Saturday

I. The Annunciation: Humility
II. The Visitation: Charity
III. The Birth of Our Lord: Poverty, or detachment from the world
IV. The Presentation of Our Lord: Purity of heart, obedience
V. The Finding of Our Lord in the Temple: Piety

The Five Sorrowful Mysteries
Tuesday & Friday

I. The Agony in the Garden: Contrition for our sins
II. The Scourging at the Pillar: Mortification of our senses
III. The Crowning with Thorns: Interior mortification
IV. The Carrying of the Cross: Patience under crosses
V. The Crucifixion and Death of Our Lord: That we may die to ourselves

The Five Glorious Mysteries
Sunday & Wednesday

I. The Resurrection: Conversion of heart
II. The Ascension: A desire for heaven
III. The Coming of the Holy Ghost: The Gifts of the Holy Ghost
IV. The Assumption of our Blessed Mother into Heaven: Devotion to Mary
V. The Coronation of our Blessed Mother: Eternal happiness

The prayers that compose the Rosary are all based on elements found in the gospels, as well as other parts of the scriptures.

While the prayers of the Rosary seem to attract the most criticism from those outside the Catholic Church, the heart of the Rosary is the set of meditations that relate our salvation to the work of Christ.

If you have an interest in looking further into this, I suggest a visit to Catholic Online at:

Mysteries of the Rosary

Peace in Christ…Salmon
 
I think the general point about Pope JPII’s suggestion to pray the rosary in public is to be a witness to the faith. In contrast, the Pharisees of Jesus’ day had no faith to witness since the majority of people were Jewish, and their intent was to show off. The Pharisees put on the holier-than-thou act. I doubt anyone who prays the rosary in public (almost always means somewhere that’s mainly non-Catholic) tries to be holier-than-thou. They’re really serious in their prayers.
 
If that is the case about the rosary were in the bible tells me that i have to pray that???one thing is our Father in heaven another one is the one for Mary…and besides how many times that the New Testament mentions Mary have you count them???and did Jesus ever mention we had to pray to her???or that she is the person who intercedes between us and God…the bible states clearly that is the Holy Spirit that does that in Romans 8:26 so why say something that is not biblical???
 
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JesustheSavior:
If that is the case about the rosary were in the bible tells me that i have to pray that???
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Nope, you don’t have to pray the rosary. But if you do, you are asking the Mother of God to pray for you while you meditate on the important parts of his life. That’s pretty cool, and a great way to grow closer to God.

Peace,
Iguana
 
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