Need an explanation please... the rosary

[DenRat]

Did anyone notice that “JesusIstheWay” and “JesustheSavior” is the same person? He (or she) jumps in and responds to and agrees with him/her own posts.

Either or both may soon be banned if he/she isn’t careful.

God Bless,
Denise

 

[JesustheSavior]

He did???He left us a church???really i thought He left us His word and to and preach to everybody about the truth,and when He said to Peter in Matthew 16:17 He said:Blessed are you,Simon for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you,but My Father who is in heaven.18.And i also say to you that You are Peter and on this rock i will build my church and the gates of hades will not prevail against it"
He meant the truth that Peter said that He was the Christ that is not beggining of the church the church started in Acts not then don’t forget that they after Jesus died they hide and nothing started after they saw Jesus again and rose to heaven.
And no…i believe in praying to God not Mary i always pray everytime i have i pray… we don’t have to be closet people you took the whole context of what i said wich is…not praying to Mary but to God itself,i am able to pray to Him nobody else, i do prayer meetings and praying is the most uplifting any christian can do with out that we are empty,didn’t Jesus pray all the time to the Father???

 

[Archbishop_10-K]

I guess my whole point in reality is why talk about Mary so much???

This thread was started by a non-Catholic.

what about Jesus and what He did for us that is something that is lost in many religions of today we just don’t give Him the importance he deserves but we substitue Him for others and claim those others are the ones that are going to get us closer to him and to reach heaven,

Last time I checked, “The Passion of the Christ” was made by a Catholic with a Catholic for the star role, and is a very Catholic movie. The entire of the Passion (that is, the suffering) of Christ is lost in many non-Catholic churches. When I walk into a Catholic church, I immediately see the suffering Jesus on the wall and am reminded of how He died for my sins. I think the Catholic Church does a pretty good job of expressing how much Jesus loves us.

is that difficult to understand that by grace we are save and not by our works???

Not difficult at all. Catholics believe we are saved sola gratia (by grace alone.) However, faith without works is dead. That just means that if you have faith, you will, as a result, desire to do good works for the glory of God. I think that in the end, Protestants also believe this. Anyway, did you actually mean Grace Alone? Since most Protestants I know say “Faith Alone”, not “Grace Alone.”

why do i have to be told that thru her she will intercede when is not biblical?

Who told you that you have to pray for Mary’s intercession? I was only told that you can, but it’s not necessary. Revelation 5:8, “the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each holding a harp, and with golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.” They’re offering the prayers of the saints to God. That seems fairly clear cut to me. And if it’s not, let’s see what the Church Fathers said about it:

“But not the high priest [Christ] alone prays for those who pray sincerely, but also the angels . . . as also the souls of the saints who have already fallen asleep.” --Origen

“Let us remember one another in concord and unanimity. Let us on both sides [of death] always pray for one another. Let us relieve burdens and afflictions by mutual love, that if one of us, by the swiftness of divine condescension, shall go hence first, our love may continue in the presence of the Lord, and our prayers for our brethren and sisters not cease in the presence of the Father’s mercy.” --Cyprian of Carthage

Why is it so hard to believe when Jesus said "I AM THE WAY THE TRUTH AND THE LIFE,NO ONE COMES TO THE FATHER EXCEPT THROUGH ME"it is so clear what Jesus said in John 14.

Yep. Isn’t that the whole point of intercessory prayer?

Did anyone notice that “JesusIstheWay” and “JesustheSavior” is the same person?

Serious? Same IP and everything? Or is that your speculation?

 

[JesustheSavior]

DenRat

We are not the same,we believe the same and why will we be banned for expressing what we believe???
Just because you and i don’t agree doesn’t mean that i will not hear what you or others have to say i respect waht everybody say here in the same respect i will apprecciate the same from all

 

[Robert_in_SD]

JesustheSavior:

to archbishop 10-k
I guess my whole point in reality is why talk about Mary so much??? what about Jesus and what He did for us that is something that is lost in many religions of today we just don’t give Him the importance he deserves but we substitue Him for others and claim those others are the ones that are going to get us closer to him and to reach heaven,is that difficult to understand that by grace we are save and not by our works?

I suppose the question can be turned around to ask Protestants: Why do you insist on ignoring the Mother of God (see Lk 1:43) when the bible so clearly shows that all generations are to call her “blessed?” (Lk 1:48) I think that the one valid criticism that protestants can level at Marian doctrine is that there is a *possibility * that individuals can become confused by the doctrine. But the fact that a doctrine may be confusing to some does not mean that it is not true, nor does that fact provide a reason for failing to give Mary the respect that she is due. (Notice that I said respect and not worship.)

Your second point - i.e. that we are saved by grace alone and not by works - is an entirely different topic that should be addressed in another thread. But see: Mt. 7:21; Mt. 19:16-17; Jn 14:21; Rom 2:2-8; Gal 5:4-6; Eph 2:8-10; Phil 2:12-13 (my favorite); and Jam 2:14-24. In short, we all work out our salvation with fear and trembling, just as St. Paul did.

 

[gomer_tree]

Grace is responsible for both faith and works. I do find it unusual to say “grace alone,” as that fits perfectly with Catholic teaching. (Although Protestants usually mean something different by “grace.”)

I guess it is another topic, though, so I better leave it at that.

 

[dalonia]

DenRat:

Did anyone notice that “JesusIstheWay” and “JesustheSavior” is the same person? He (or she) jumps in and responds to and agrees with him/her own posts.

Either or both may soon be banned if he/she isn’t careful.

God Bless,
Denise

those posters are usually called
“alters” (as in “alternative identities”)
in most other forums…
if they get banned under one name, they make up
another (an "alter"native) identity…
if their ISPs are logged, however,
I do believe their is a way to block their ISP-
no matter which identity they use…

 

[Vitus]

DenRat:

Did anyone notice that “JesusIstheWay” and “JesustheSavior” is the same person? He (or she) jumps in and responds to and agrees with him/her own posts.

Either or both may soon be banned if he/she isn’t careful.

God Bless,
Denise

I don’t think that is the case, they just happen to have similar names. Their writing styles are not similar. For example, JesusIstheWay uses complete sentences, has proper punctuation and give responses that are short and usually in question form. This is not so with JesustheSavior.

 

[iguana27]

JesustheSavior:

And no…i believe in praying to God not Mary i always pray everytime i have i pray… we don’t have to be closet people you took the whole context of what i said wich is…not praying to Mary but to God itself,i am able to pray to Him nobody else, i do prayer meetings and praying is the most uplifting any christian can do with out that we are empty,didn’t Jesus pray all the time to the Father???

Have you ever asked a friend to pray for you? There is absolutely no difference between asking your next-door neighbor to pray for you or asking Mary to pray for you, except that she is in the presence of God and she has no earthly distractions to keep her from praying…

This is the idea of the communion of saints. Catholics believe that when we die, we can still pray for those who are here on earth. We ask saints to pray for us because the Church has given us an indication that they are in heaven. Because they are in heaven praying anyway, we ask them to lift up our prayer intentions in those prayers.

“Praying to Mary” is asking her to pray for us. Once I understood it this way it was not difficult for me to accept.

God Bless,
Iguana

 

[JesustheSavior]

The reason why i ask so may questions is because i am interested in what everybody has to say in this forum of why do catholic people pray to Mary.Taking away my punctuation and how i express my believe has no bearing in what the topic is wich is still the same and even do i get many answer they are all answer in the same way you pray to Mary because that is what they teach in the catholic church.
I can see one person in particular is very offended by what me and Jesusistheway have to express about praying to Mary is really all about is it because you feel that or they have teach you that in church wich it can make a big difference at least for me.

 

[JesusIsTheWay]

A few things… Me and JesusTheSavior are not the same person. However, we are friends in real life. The reason why our IP is the same is that we work in the same place so we are in the same network. She works with me and I turned her on to the website.

“Have you ever asked a friend to pray for you? There is absolutely no difference between asking your next-door neighbor to pray for you or asking Mary to pray for you, except that she is in the presence of God and she has no earthly distractions to keep her from praying…”

There is a BIG difference. When I ask someone to pray for me, or when I pray for them. I am asking someone to directly speak with God for me or me them. I pray to no one else. Mary was “assumed” into heaven. There is no scriptural evidence, just pegan roots. Only a few people have ever gone up. Enoch, Elijah, Moses, Jesus, etc. There is evidence for them. And they went up in the flesh. But that is another forum.

Once I understood that the ONLY way to the father was through the son, it’s difficult for me to accept anything else. I try as hard as I can everyday to do what Jesus asks and to do what he did. NO WHERE IN THE BIBLE will you EVER find Jesus praying with a rosary, or to his mother, or to his disciples. Nor did he ever ask/tell us to do so. Therefor I dont do it.

“If you love me, Keep my Commandments” And I do… I keep the original 10… not the re-written and half deleted ‘commendments’ of the RCC…

"those posters are usually called
“alters” (as in “alternative identities”)
in most other forums…
if they get banned under one name, they make up
another (an “alter"native) identity…
if their ISPs are logged, however,
I do believe their is a way to block their ISP-
no matter which identity they use…”

I’ll save you the trouble… it’s Cox Communications. If you are so steadfast in your faith and we are no threat to you then there is no point in banning us now is there…

 

[iguana27]

I think the major misunderstanding is in the definition of prayer… when we pray to Mary, we are asking for her to pray to God - not to perform miracles or magical things. We are asking for her intercession.

Some Protestants ask people with the gift of healing (Benny Hinn comes to mind) to pray for them to be healed. This does not mean that they think that Benny Hinn has magical powers.

Likewise, Catholics don’t ask Mary or any other saint to pray for them because they think saints have magical powers. Saints are praying all the time, and we ask for them to pray for us. That’s it. No voodoo, no superstition, no magical powers.

God Bless,
Iguana

 

[JesustheSavior]

To iguana27

Will you please answer my question to why you pray to Mary and not to God?is that hard to answer with a biblical verse or scripture and show me were in the bible tells me or anybody else that you have to pray to her or anywere in the bible that Jesus told his disciples or any one else in those times that we had to pray to Mary.

 

[JesusIsTheWay]

iguana27:

I think the major misunderstanding is in the definition of prayer… when we pray to Mary, we are asking for her to pray to God - not to perform miracles or magical things. We are asking for her intercession.

Some Protestants ask people with the gift of healing (Benny Hinn comes to mind) to pray for them to be healed. This does not mean that they think that Benny Hinn has magical powers.

Likewise, Catholics don’t ask Mary or any other saint to pray for them because they think saints have magical powers. Saints are praying all the time, and we ask for them to pray for us. That’s it. No voodoo, no superstition, no magical powers.

God Bless,
Iguana

I understand what it means, I learned very thoroughly exactly what it means to pray to Mary. But you are still lacking scriptural evidence as to who said you need to do it… will you find it? No… it is a man made tradition… And the Word of God is above the tradition of men… not the other way around…

 

[Vitus]

JesusIsTheWay:

There is a BIG difference. When I ask someone to pray for me, or when I pray for them. I am asking someone to directly speak with God for me or me them. I pray to no one else.

So what is this big difference then? This person you request to pray to God for you is still acting as a mediator between yourself and God. You are asking someone else to come before the Lord with your issue. When someone asks Mary to pray for them, you are asking her to go before the Lord with your issue.

JesusIsTheWay:

Mary was “assumed” into heaven. There is no scriptural evidence, just pegan roots.

Please provide proof of these pagan roots. And while there is no evidence in scripture per se, however keep in mind the Catholic church does not rely solely on scripture.

Only a few people have ever gone up. Enoch, Elijah, Moses, Jesus, etc. There is evidence for them. And they went up in the flesh.

Please prevent such evidence. Moses died. Jesus died as well, hence the term resurrection. And just so you know, the Church is silent on whether Mary was assumed before or after death.

Once I understood that the ONLY way to the father was through the son, it’s difficult for me to accept anything else.

Who is asking you to?

I try as hard as I can everyday to do what Jesus asks and to do what he did. NO WHERE IN THE BIBLE will you EVER find Jesus praying with a rosary, or to his mother, or to his disciples. Nor did he ever ask/tell us to do so. Therefor I dont do it.

Jesus didn’t tell us to do a lot of things and he also told us to do others we don’t (unless you are one of those snake-handling, poison drinking types). You REALLY don’t want to go down this path, do you?

“If you love me, Keep my Commandments” And I do… I keep the original 10… not the re-written and half deleted ‘commendments’ of the RCC…

Re-written and half deleted? Please enlighten us on this little tidbit, would you please?

 

[Mike_Rainville]

How many times do you tell your spouse or mother you love them, once, twice, is there a limit. Let me count the ways …

If you pray the Rosary, as badly as you like, but SINCERELY INTENDING to honor Mary, your prayer will improve.

If you want to improve quickly, concentrate on the meaning and intent of each word as you say it. Say it to the person the mysteries and inspirations of the Spirit reveal to you, but say it to the person, as you would a dear loved one. Do your best, don’t worry about others; they may follow your example, perhaps not.

The meditations help us to remember all that Mary and Jesus have done for us and to know them better as we remember in their lives. When people are reminded of emotional events, the feel the emotions as they recall the events. Each Hail Mary reminds her of the Divine Proposal, her Divine Motherhood.

Ask YOUR MOTHER about the day your dad proposed or her first child was born…

 

[JesustheSavior]

To Vitus

Please prevent such evidence. Moses died. Jesus died as well, hence the term resurrection. And just so you know, the Church is silent on whether Mary was assumed before or after death

Can you please specify what you mean by assumed? and by you saying that the church is silent about that for me it means that they have no proofs of that.

 

[JesusIsTheWay]

Vitus:

So what is this big difference then? This person you request to pray to God for you is still acting as a mediator between yourself and God. You are asking someone else to come before the Lord with your issue. When someone asks Mary to pray for them, you are asking her to go before the Lord with your issue.

Please provide proof of these pagan roots. And while there is no evidence in scripture per se, however keep in mind the Catholic church does not rely solely on scripture.

Please prevent such evidence. Moses died. Jesus died as well, hence the term resurrection. And just so you know, the Church is silent on whether Mary was assumed before or after death.

Who is asking you to?

Jesus didn’t tell us to do a lot of things and he also told us to do others we don’t (unless you are one of those snake-handling, poison drinking types). You REALLY don’t want to go down this path, do you?

Re-written and half deleted? Please enlighten us on this little tidbit, would you please?

Examples of re-written and half deleted commandments…

the 4th Commandment: Honor the Sabbath Day and keep it holy…changed to Sunday

the 2nd Commandmant: worship of idolatry and graven images… Anyone have a crucifix? a rosary? hmmmm

“Please provide proof of these pagan roots. And while there is no evidence in scripture per se, however keep in mind the Catholic church does not rely solely on scripture.”

I know the Catholic Church doesn’t rely soley on scripture… that’s my point… The Church has it’s own rules and laws… and not the ones laid down by Jesus

“Jesus didn’t tell us to do a lot of things and he also told us to do others we don’t (unless you are one of those snake-handling, poison drinking types). You REALLY don’t want to go down this path, do you?”

Huh?? No, I don’t handle snakes… and I don’t plan to…

and the big difference between asking someone to pray for me and asking Mary to ask for me is that the person I ask to do… actually does… because they aren’t dead. *

 

[Meggie]

I think vain prayer in repatition means like
“God make me pretter than her,God make me prettier than her, God make me pretter than her”
is what is ment, that would be a pagan-like prayer…I dunno its just me.
God also said not to let people know you are fasting, but everyone at lent asks others what they are fasting from-that would be leading someone into sin.
God said don’t pray to God aloud in public but we still have Mass.
Modern words and translations don’t really give the depth of understanding from the Bible, thats why there is the Catholic Church.

 

[Archbishop_10-K]

JesustheSavior:

To iguana27

Will you please answer my question to why you pray to Mary and not to God?is that hard to answer with a biblical verse or scripture and show me were in the bible tells me or anybody else that you have to pray to her or anywere in the bible that Jesus told his disciples or any one else in those times that we had to pray to Mary.

I don’t think anyone here said you HAD to pray to Mary. You can, but you don’t have to. I believe strongly in the Catholic faith, but I personally do not pray to Mary. Does this mean I’m not Catholic? Of course not. But if a Catholic wants to pray for the intercession of Mary, he/she can do so because Mary is a saint. You seem to believe that Catholics aren’t allowed to pray to God directly. I’m not sure how you got that impression, since if we weren’t, we wouldn’t be able to say the Our Father (Lord’s Prayer.) I pray to God directly all the time, and I still love Mary.

I understand what it means, I learned very thoroughly exactly what it means to pray to Mary. But you are still lacking scriptural evidence as to who said you need to do it… will you find it? No… it is a man made tradition… And the Word of God is above the tradition of men… not the other way around…

Same answer. You don’t have to pray to Mary. You can if you want, but you don’t have to. And, isn’t the biblical canon you use a tradition of men? Can you explain why the writings of Paul, which are very informal letters (I don’t think Paul ever imagined that his letters would be codified and quoted for all time) are the Word of God?

NO WHERE IN THE BIBLE will you EVER find Jesus praying with a rosary, or to his mother, or to his disciples. Nor did he ever ask/tell us to do so. Therefor I dont do it.

Nowhere in the Bible does Jesus use a car to go to church (or specifically, synagogue), but I still use a car to go to church, even though Jesus did not ask us to drive to church. A car is an invention to make a certain task easier. In the same way, St. Dominic invented the rosary to make a certain task (in this case, prayer) easier. Still, you don’t have to use the rosary to pray, and it’s perfectly fine if you, or any Catholic, doesn’t.

I request a reply of either acnowledgement or further confusion on these matters, so I can either stop repeating myself or explain in further detail.