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Walking_Home
Guest
So you are saying a woman who wants to attend college – has no right to. A woman who wants to be self-supporting — has no right to.
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So you are saying a woman who wants to attend college – has no right to. A woman who wants to be self-supporting — has no right to.
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severus68
Guest
You do pick words and use it in your own context to ‘prove’ your point. Jharek was talking about choice and I was responding and agreeing.
You have decided for yourself that it is the only moral and Christian to have your kind of marriage and for you and your family to live life a certain way. I am saying that while that is your right, it is my right to disagree.
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severus68
Guest
Your idea of ‘a special dignity and protection’, I see as control.
Christ also entrusted John to Mary.
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severus68
Guest
Aren’t you worried that your friends who disagree with you may influence your children, in particular your daughters? I am curious.Yes, many of my friends are women. Not even counting my best friend (my Wife) or my Blessed Mother, I have lots of other friends who are women.Some of my friends agree with the views I’ve expressed in this thread. Some of them don’t. Does that suprise you? As I said, I’m not tightening down the hatches on my family bunker even if some accuse me of such.
Pax.
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AngryAtheist8
Guest
I starting reading this thread out of morbid curiosity but now I feel compelled to respond.
I hope Dan is a troll but I suspect he is sincere.
In which case, if his daughters want to live their own lives they need to get as far away from him as possible.
I hope Dan is a troll but I suspect he is sincere.
In which case, if his daughters want to live their own lives they need to get as far away from him as possible.
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AngryAtheist8
Guest
Dan Daly your message has been remarkably consistent throughout this thread, so rather than replying to 10 or more posts, I will simply ask you about the core points.
That women stay home under the authority of a man, and make no attempt to seek fame and fortune (or change the world at large for the better).
- If women are not meant to work or ever leave the home (and the authority of a father or husband) then why bother educating then at all?
- How can women be equal in any meaningful (earthly) way if they have no power in the home, church, or society (if women are not allowed to pursue positions of power or influence in business, politics, or the church, and cannot be leaders at home)?
That women stay home under the authority of a man, and make no attempt to seek fame and fortune (or change the world at large for the better).
- Do you really think a woman should always ask her husband’s or father’s permission to leave the house?
That a woman’s movements, decisions, options, and focus should always be controlled by a male authority figure? - Do you have any idea of how women are treated in parts of the world where people still live according to the principals you have advocated in this thread?
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agnes_therese
Guest
I find it absolutely appalling that someone can say that my father “failed” me by raising me to be able to take care of myself.
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catholicmamajoy
Guest
That is appalling and highly offensive (not to mention lacking in charity) that someone would even suggest that!
It’s a father’s responsibility, as protector of his wife and children, to ensure the well-being and safety of his daughters, and that includes ensuring they are given the opportunity to have an education/training that will allow them to support themselves and their own family, if circumstances arise!! It takes a real man to know that and Agnes Therese, it sounds like you had a real man, and a wonderful one at that, for a father!
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JaneGrey
Guest
As in I find it appalling too. My parents’ greatest gift to me was allowing me to be able to sustain myself without their help.
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kristleful
Guest
I am following this discussion with great interest, and I have to say I admire the conviction that Dan Daly has in raising his family how he believes is right. I believe there is nothing wrong with his ideals for his family and daughters, but unfortunately, I do think that the society in which we live does not mesh well with his plan. It will be hard to keep those girls protected and cared for for the rest of their lives… In the past, when the world was simpler, and it was the norm for families to all stay together, this plan would work well. If something happened to the husband, the wife would be provided for by the father or father-in-law, or brother, and so-forth, and she would still be surrounded by family members that all worked and played together. I have to say I long for those times, and maybe it takes some families who are willing to be very counter-cultural and much more focused on family-togetherness to slowly turn our culture around. But I understand that in the meantime, people who want that kind of simplicity and think so conservatively will be viewed as strange, unrealistic, and outdated.
I think how he wants to raise his daughters is his choice, and he is following his conscience, which is good. I happen to disagree that a girl should avoid college if she possibly can, but I see where he is coming from… I attended a Catholic private college and grew an astonishing amount there–spiritually, academically, emotionally, and mentally. I do agree that someone should only go to college if God calls him/her to go. I knew I was called to go. Dan has said earlier that he would not forbid his grown daughter to go to college if she felt called; he just wouldn’t foot the bill and willingly ship her off. I see nothing wrong with that.
Anyway, maybe his ideas don’t bother me so much because I am a very feminine, conservative girl, and the way that I relate to God my Father (I am very trusting and love to be guided and taken care of) is the way I would like to be able to relate (in a more limited way, of course) to my own father, husband, and men in general. I wish that all men were noble, good, protective, and respectful of women. But, that would be an ideal world that we don’t have.
I think how he wants to raise his daughters is his choice, and he is following his conscience, which is good. I happen to disagree that a girl should avoid college if she possibly can, but I see where he is coming from… I attended a Catholic private college and grew an astonishing amount there–spiritually, academically, emotionally, and mentally. I do agree that someone should only go to college if God calls him/her to go. I knew I was called to go. Dan has said earlier that he would not forbid his grown daughter to go to college if she felt called; he just wouldn’t foot the bill and willingly ship her off. I see nothing wrong with that.
Anyway, maybe his ideas don’t bother me so much because I am a very feminine, conservative girl, and the way that I relate to God my Father (I am very trusting and love to be guided and taken care of) is the way I would like to be able to relate (in a more limited way, of course) to my own father, husband, and men in general. I wish that all men were noble, good, protective, and respectful of women. But, that would be an ideal world that we don’t have.
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AngryAtheist8
Guest
Oh, I think that their much worse than that.
I think that such people (perhaps unknowingly) act as enablers and supporters for those who don’t believe there’s any point in educating girls, think a man has the right to rule his family like a tyrant, and genuinely believe that men are superior to women.
For instance, if was looking for someone to send to Afghanistan to set up schools for girls and generally improve the welfare of women there, I would never consider sending someone who had publicly expressed views like those Dan has in this thread. Because I would question his dedication to the goal of improving the welfare of women and girls in the region.
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AngryAtheist8
Guest
You seem to be longing for a society of Prince Charmings.
Plenty of men would like to live in world where all the women were beautiful, sweet, selfless, and (frankly) great in bed.
But those are both unreasonable expectations, and you can’t plan or make rules based on such things. Not without causing a lot of damage anyway.
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bhall0689
Guest
I would like to add my two cents to the “Dan Saga.” My parents, like Dan, are very, very devout Catholics. They have been married over 45 years, and have 5 children, including me. I am one of those much-talked of, dreaded, fallen “young Catholic ladies” who attended a fairly liberal Catholic college. However, I had rejected Catholicism and Christianity as whole long before I decided to attend that particular university, in my high school Sophomore Catholic Theology class. My gradual process of “drawing away” happened when we begin to discuss the intrinsic differences between men and women. The differences were illustrated as women as “active recipients” both in the sexual act and the receiving of communion, men as the “providers” in the sexual act, Transubstantiation of the host, and families. Drawing “connect-the-dot” lines between these ideas and then using them as the basis of theological and practical conclusions seemed icky and wrong to me.
Attending a Catholic college has challenged me to re-examine the the basic principles of the Catholic faith, and even though I still do not consider myself religious at all, I have more respect for its deep foundations of faith and tradition than I did in the past. So college, for me, has done the opposite of what you fear, Dan.
On a side note, my mother who is a devout Catholic married at 18 with 5 kids and who has served as a homemaker all her life (sounds like your ideal woman, eh Dan?) has cried to me on more than one occasion about how her worst regret in life was never attending college. My father just retired last year, has footed my educational bill, and has plenty of income to live on for the rest of their lives, so her desire is not out of financial necessity. She sees how it has emotionally and spiritually benefitted me and the 1 sister I have that did attend college. 2 out of 3 of my sisters did not attend college, either, and they express similar sentiments, especially since my sister’s husband just injured his back badly at work and is unable to work while he waits for surgery. My one sister who did is the most Catholic of my whole family, a homemaker with 10 children.
I was a late “surprise” with 20 years difference between me and my closest sibling, and my parents made attending college a priority, seeing how not attending it has adversely affected my brothers and sisters. College has added so much to my life. I thank God for the opportunities for intellectual and emotional growth that it has allowed me.
What bothers me most, though about you, Dan, is not the decisions you make for your own self and family, as much as I disagree with them, but how you claim that your decisions are Catholic dogma and every other supposed Catholic’s soul is in jeopardy if they do not strongly discourage higher education in their children. Hogwash.
Just another side to the coin.
In closing, I AM WOMAN, HEAR ME ROAR!! :extrahappy:
:curtsey::curtsey::slapfight::slapfight::egyptian:
Attending a Catholic college has challenged me to re-examine the the basic principles of the Catholic faith, and even though I still do not consider myself religious at all, I have more respect for its deep foundations of faith and tradition than I did in the past. So college, for me, has done the opposite of what you fear, Dan.
On a side note, my mother who is a devout Catholic married at 18 with 5 kids and who has served as a homemaker all her life (sounds like your ideal woman, eh Dan?) has cried to me on more than one occasion about how her worst regret in life was never attending college. My father just retired last year, has footed my educational bill, and has plenty of income to live on for the rest of their lives, so her desire is not out of financial necessity. She sees how it has emotionally and spiritually benefitted me and the 1 sister I have that did attend college. 2 out of 3 of my sisters did not attend college, either, and they express similar sentiments, especially since my sister’s husband just injured his back badly at work and is unable to work while he waits for surgery. My one sister who did is the most Catholic of my whole family, a homemaker with 10 children.
I was a late “surprise” with 20 years difference between me and my closest sibling, and my parents made attending college a priority, seeing how not attending it has adversely affected my brothers and sisters. College has added so much to my life. I thank God for the opportunities for intellectual and emotional growth that it has allowed me.
What bothers me most, though about you, Dan, is not the decisions you make for your own self and family, as much as I disagree with them, but how you claim that your decisions are Catholic dogma and every other supposed Catholic’s soul is in jeopardy if they do not strongly discourage higher education in their children. Hogwash.
Just another side to the coin.
In closing, I AM WOMAN, HEAR ME ROAR!!
:extrahappy::curtsey::curtsey::slapfight::slapfight::egyptian:
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Katie966
Guest
This is all fine; people have a right to raise their children as they see fit, as long as they aren’t abusive. I feel badly for any daughters raised in such an environment, because I imagine myself, who has such a drive for knowledge, being held prisoner…but ultimately it’s none of my business I guess.
What I do have a problem with is anyone saying that all women should not be allowed to go to college and should stay home waiting for a husband. I am also very “feminine and conservative” but I am also passionate about what I do, which has involved years of education. I like to think that I am using what God gave me in the manner in which He intended. Nowhere in Catholicism is there any support for the idea that women should not be college educated. If an individual parents chooses to portray college as an evil, that’s unfortunate for their children but it’s their right. I think it is one thing to try to pass your values and beliefs on to your children, and it’s entirely another thing to make them so dependent upon you as a parent that they cannot function in this world without a parent or without a husband.
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Dan_Daly
Guest
You made a very broad statement. I disputed what you said. If you don’t agree with what you said, you can revise your statement.
Do you think people have the right to live their lives the way they want?
Pax
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Dan_Daly
Guest
Nobody, male or female has a right to attend college. Consider:
-If you had a right to attend college, why can the college deny you admission? What are the point of interivews, SATs, high school transcripts? If college was a right you’d simply just show up.
-If you had a right to college, why do you pay tuition? If you stop paying, will the college let you stay on with your studies because it is your right to do so?
-The moment you claim a right to attend college, that means others must actually run the college in order for you to exercise that right. But what if nobody wants to? What if no one wants to be a professor, a janitor, a groundskeeper for a college? By asserting a RIGHT to attend college you are claiming the authority to compell others to take up a certain line of work, even if they don’t want to, in order to cater to you own desires.
Pax.
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Walking_Home
Guest
Nice try — but you well know – what it was that I was referring to.
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Dan_Daly
Guest
I appreciate the kind words. You’re right, the world is far from perfect, but as my wife and I say to each other often, “If we wait for the perfect time to do “x”…we’ll never do it”.
If a woman’s parents are unwilling to support her and she is unmarried and not called to the religious life, well then she has no choice but to support herself. As I’ve said repeatedly, that is not a failing of the woman, it is a failing of others to live a life of charity towards her.
Finally, as far as people not being able to get a job in the modern world without a college degree, that is false. I believe the current stat is somewhere around 30% American adults are college grads. So lots of people, men and women, somehow find a way to develop “skills” and “expereince” needed to make a living without school, and don’t become wandering beggars as some have implied.
Pax and God Bless!
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Dan_Daly
Guest
All I can go on is what you say. If you agree that people don’t have a right to college, why accuse me of not thinking women have a right to go to college? If that’s not what you say and/or meant, can you clarify?
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Dan_Daly
Guest
No we are simply working towards a world where everyone is a saint, starting with ourselves. Which is exactly Christ and the Church have told us to do. Sainthood is a goal within the reach of every man and woman, thanks to Christ’s redeeming death.
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