Neo-Pagans will worship at my base chapel!

[trippinprincezz]

buffalo:

I asked before and asked you what your definition of intolerant was. You never replied. I also remarked about your truth and my truth being relativistic. No reply or defense their either.

Sorry I missed that. :nope: awww. Intolerance, would be, in this case, condemning someone’s beliefs without really bothering to understand them and without any real proof of who’s right and who’s wrong. And you can quote me all the scripture you’d like, but the Bible was still written by men.

And yes, our truths are relativistic. But I can at least accept that hey, maybe I’m not completely right, but neither are you. There is no proof either way. So although I have my own version of the truth, I am not going to call yours wrong, either. Because we could both be partially right or both be wrong, all that matters is we are worshipping the same God. And unfortunately, most people here have the mentality of I’m right and you’re wrong. That’s why people get killed. That’s why wars start. That’s why something like 9/11 happened. Because of people with that mentality.

 

[buffalo]

tripp(name removed by moderator)rincezz:

Sorry I missed that. :nope: awww. Intolerance, would be, in this case, condemning someone’s beliefs without really bothering to understand them and without any real proof of who’s right and who’s wrong. And you can quote me all the scripture you’d like, but the Bible was still written by men.

And yes, our truths are relativistic. But I can at least accept that hey, maybe I’m not completely right, but neither are you. There is no proof either way. So although I have my own version of the truth, I am not going to call yours wrong, either. Because we could both be partially right or both be wrong, all that matters is we are worshipping the same God. And unfortunately, most people here have the mentality of I’m right and you’re wrong. That’s why people get killed. That’s why wars start. That’s why something like 9/11 happened. Because of people with that mentality.

Do you think the Bible was concocted?

 

[trippinprincezz]

buffalo:

Do you think the Bible was concocted?

I think it was written by men, which it was. Men who could write whatever they wanted, twist around stories, elaborate on others, even twisting around words or events supposedly from ‘jesus’ or ‘god’ themselves.

 

[Gerry_Hunter]

tripp(name removed by moderator)rincezz:

I think it was written by men, which it was.

Yes …
tripp(name removed by moderator)rincezz:

Men who could write whatever they wanted, twist around stories, elaborate on others, even twisting around words or events supposedly from ‘jesus’ or ‘god’ themselves.

Then you deny that the Bible is Holy Scripture, written under the inspiration of God the Holy Spirit, and is inerrant? Fine. But that ends the discussion with a Catholic (or any other Chrsitian) on that point. But there is no point in expecting a Catholic (or other Christian) to accept your references to it from a frame of reference which is blasphemous to their faith.

Many of us here can accept, at face value, that you wish to have a discussion. But many of your requirement for that discussion – the acceptance of modalism, and demand that it be accepted as valid, ditto for the secularization of Holy Scripture – make that impossible.

And there are three, not two, possibilities in the area of right and wrong. Two have been outlined: each could be partly right, and both could be wrong. There is a third: one is right and one is wrong. Catholics and other Christians will not admit the exclusion of that third possibility into the rules for a discussion. They cannot, for to do so is to betray the truth – not a truth they have worked out, or discovered, but one that has been given to them by Truth Himself in the person of Jesus Christ, God the Son, whose very essence is truth.

It is perfectly true that there is no warrant in the Catholic faith to denigrate those who do not hold to it. But it is also true that Catholics must never compromise on the truth they have been given, even to facilitate a discussion, no matter what they are accused of when they refuse such a compromise.

Blessings,

Gerry

 

[Susanna]

Peace-bwu:

I respect your freedom of religion, and I am not “afraid” of witchcraft, although it goes strongly against my religious views, I am not afraid that someone will cast a “spell” on me, I believe God will protect me from all evil. I understand that not all Wiccans are witches and that not all witches are “bad”, but I feel that any power other than that which comes from God has the potential to be evil, I won’t sugar coat it so as not to offend anyone, I will be honest, I don’t believe we are worshiping the same “creator/force/whatever.” My God has revealed Himself to humanity over the course of over many thousands of years, as he revealed Himself to His chosen people…Religion is the human response to mystery as divine. I believe the pagan religions that developed were searching for the one true God but had no guidence, when Christ came, He came to save both Jews and Gentiles.

I have no problem with them meeting at another location. I wondered what other Catholics thought about this and if they thought it compromises anything. If it is an abuse in any way. I am tolerant of other’s beliefs, but am concerned about whether it is disrespectful to my God for this to go on.
As I mentioned before I know two of the women and actually know the woman in charge, I work closely with her on another project.

I would have issues about having them meet there as well. I have first hand experience— the “powers” raised are real— if they will be casting circles or involved in other occult rituals and practices I would not want to share “space” with that— this is just my personal feeling— and if you are feeling uneasy that maybe a prompting by the Spirit.

I was involved with neo-paganism for several years. I also studied and practiced tarot, astrology and numerology. I was a solitary for a few years and then decided to join a “coven” that was forming in my area. Below is a link to my experience with meeting fellow pagans for the purpose of starting this “worship” group. I was forty years old at the time— not an impressionalble kid—

"kelidei.typepad.com/keli_rose/2004/01/the_meeting.html

Please understand — this is just how I would feel about it. I don’t know this group but I do know when you are raising energy and powers — the one thing that is for certain is that these “energies” are not from God— so where are they from?

If they are just meeting and not involved in other activities like divination or “worship” then maybe it wouldn’t be an issue— But after being allowed to experience dark forces— I don’t want to be anywhere near it— just my humble opinion.

 

[opticks]

Peace-bwu:

It is designed so that all the “Catholic stuff” such as holy water fonts, a crucifix etc fold into the walls.

I’m also a military Catholic and have serious reservations about worshiping in such a place, mainly due to the need to “hide” my Catholicity and put up with the problem you’re now dealing with.

Like others have said, it’s a federal building so anyone can worship there if they choose.

Support your local civilian parish instead. You’ll feel wanted and respected just the same and you can “minister” to the peacenik folks while in uniform.

 

[Ken]

mistake

 

[Didi]

Hi PeaceBWU –

I’m going back to your original question; didn’t read all the posts so someone may have stated this already.

Since the Blessed Sacrament is in a secured room, I wouldn’t worry too much about the other services. Jesus is still present in the Tabernacle, still very near, and His Love and Grace will still flood over whoever is near Him. Maybe He will begin to convert some hearts!

 

[Exporter]

**Hey, tripp(name removed by moderator)rincezz, **

Now that I’ve read about a dozen of your posts, I have an idea of your though processes. It’s that process that interests me.

**You say you were taught by Nuns and a Priest. They didn’t satisfy you did they? Could you elaborate on a few points please?:clapping: **

1. How long were you in the Parocial School?
2. While in that school did you ask questions? The Holy Trinity is a mystery…it’s said no one understands it in human terms. It is one of the mysteries of faith.
3. How is it that you became aware of the “other Gods”?
4. If there are no histories, books or ancient writings that inform you of your new-found religion, then how do you do you learn these things.
**5. I hate to ask, but do you ever hear someone talking to you when no one is there?:yup: **

 

[Lion_of_Narnia]

tripp(name removed by moderator)rincezz:

First off, the Church can’t really separate itself or put itself above human wisdom. It is run by humans. I don’t see God standing at the front of the Church preaching. It is a man, a mortal man with plenty of sins of his own (one reason why I do not believe I need to confess my sins to a priest). I can make up new meanings for words in an attempt to explain something, but I am still human.

The Church twists things around and interprets the Bible in whichever way will suit its needs. I was taught in a Catholic school by nuns and priets that the father, son, and Holy Spirit are one and the same, but in different forms (which is exactly what it is). But then all of a sudden “oh no! they might associate us with pagans!” So things are twisted around, almost to a point of not making sense. “There are three persons in God, but not really because they are all one, but separate at the same time”. The fact of the matter is, Jesus and the holy spirit are god in a different form or aspect, or else there would be no reason to distinguish them.

QUOTE]

I doubt, I SERIOUSLY doubt, that all those priests and nuns were either conciously teaching you the heresey (error) of Modalism (aka Sabelianism) or they were all so awful in their teachings, so unclear in the Catholic Doctrine of the Trinity that you came up with your understanding.

The Trinity is the central mystery of the Christian Faith. Three distinct persons, One God. The Persons are not confused. Being Mystery, by definition, it’s not fully explainable by logic. We know it by Revelation–a Revelation that occured almost 2000 years ago and transformed a bunch of scardy-cat fisherman and tradesmen into a force that changed the world–People who were willing to be tortured to death not for an abtract belief–but for events they witnessed. And the central witnessing is the Person of Jesus–who he was and what he said He was. His relation to the Father, to the Spirit, and to us.

No room for pagan god-goddess or any other traditions depiction of God. Sorry, not there. If that’s intolerance, so be it.

 

[Peace-bwu]

tripp(name removed by moderator)rincezz:

I’m just saying what it is that I learned growing up. That in puragtory you are “cleansed” of your sins and then moved on from heaven. I took this as a truth since I was taught this by nuns and preached to about it during church. Technically, everyone sins, so everyone would need to be cleansed, so no-one would go to heaven? That is how I’m understanding it.

You also have been kind in your discussions with me, which I appreciate. I don’t profess to know everything about the religion, I’m just talking about what I was taught.

Purgatory is a state of being or a place (debatable) where souls are purged or cleansed through (the Bible says fire, but we don’t know whether it is literally fire) because as it says, nothing unclean will enter heaven… Purgatory is for souls that WILL go to heaven, it is a preparation, so to speak, before entering heaven… like taking a shower and putting on nice clothes before meeting the president or going on a date…only for the soul and much more intense because we are going before God. Purgatory is good news because it means we will be with God forever. We don’t know how long it lasts or what it entails, we can only speculate, but it must not be overly pleasant since it is referred to as cleansing with fire. There are people who denounce God and refuse Him and choose eternity without Him. We humans have no way to measure God’s mercy so we pray that all souls will be saved through His mercy. “Oh my Jesus, forgive us our sins, lead all souls to heaven, especially those most in need of thy mercy” The last moments of our lives are between us and God and nobody knows what mercy He can show in those last moments… if a person chooses Him and asks for forgiveness…I believe God shows more mercy to a person who has never been shown the Truth about Him than a person who knows the truth and chooses to denounce Him. We aren’t as unreasonable as you seem to think… Generally speaking, Catholics don’t go around scaring people about Hell… we believe there is a Hell but I personally don’t go around telling people they are going to Hell and judging them, that is not my place, it is only Gods. I pray God as mercy on me as well, nobody is sinless…I work our my salvation every day. I proclaim the Truth and the love and amazing works God has done in my life, I would be selfish not to share that with people.

 

[Peace-bwu]

**Hey, tripp(name removed by moderator)rincezz, **

.
**5. I hate to ask, but do you ever hear someone talking to you when no one is there?:yup: **

Do you mean this as a rude comment, making a joke out of mental illness? Or are you serious? Mental illness is the only health problem society still has permission to make fun of, but in truth it is a health problem with connections in the brain… worse than cancer because society tends to treat mentally ill people like dogs. Someone very close to me in my family has been diagnosed with Bipolar depression but if she takes her medication she is “normal” and able to do great things with her life, yes it is a constant struggle and she will probably never have the things I take for granted like a husband and children but she struggles so hard to maintain her sanity… yes if she enters a severe depression she sometimes hears voices and I assure you it is not funny, and we have to stand idly by and watch her suffer… nope, not funny at all.

How do you think she would feel if she were reading your post :yup: cute, so funny. Do you really think trippenprincezz is going to be impressed with your wit making fun of some of the most vulnerable in our society?

 

[Peace-bwu]

Didi:

Hi PeaceBWU –

I’m going back to your original question; didn’t read all the posts so someone may have stated this already.

Since the Blessed Sacrament is in a secured room, I wouldn’t worry too much about the other services. Jesus is still present in the Tabernacle, still very near, and His Love and Grace will still flood over whoever is near Him. Maybe He will begin to convert some hearts!

This is the kind of post I was hoping to read, thank you, I just wanted to hear it from some fellow Catholics because I dont’ want to be a part of something that would be disrespectful to God, and I want to make sure it follows the correct guidelines,
Thank you for your post, it is comforting.

 

[Ken]

Should an Airman who practices Wicca be denied use of a government facility because a Catholic dependent doesn’t want to share it?

 

[Peace-bwu]

Susanna:

I would have issues about having them meet there as well. I have first hand experience— the “powers” raised are real— if they will be casting circles or involved in other occult rituals and practices I would not want to share “space” with that— this is just my personal feeling— and if you are feeling uneasy that maybe a prompting by the Spirit.

I was involved with neo-paganism for several years. I also studied and practiced tarot, astrology and numerology. I was a solitary for a few years and then decided to join a “coven” that was forming in my area. Below is a link to my experience with meeting fellow pagans for the purpose of starting this “worship” group. I was forty years old at the time— not an impressionalble kid—

"kelidei.typepad.com/keli_rose/2004/01/the_meeting.html

Please understand — this is just how I would feel about it. I don’t know this group but I do know when you are raising energy and powers — the one thing that is for certain is that these “energies” are not from God— so where are they from?

If they are just meeting and not involved in other activities like divination or “worship” then maybe it wouldn’t be an issue— But after being allowed to experience dark forces— I don’t want to be anywhere near it— just my humble opinion.

Thank you so much for this post it is very informative and will help me with my decision. I am very interested in your story and experiences. I know that the group does not have a formal doctrine and some are witches and (maybe I am assuming a little here) practice some of the things you mentioned, though I don’t know how much they do. I agree, I believe the powers are real and are not from God, which is why I am concerned… I believe God is all powerful over unclean spirits, but if there are people involved in this kind of worship in the same place and it is allowed and supported by the Catholc/protestant clergy, how understanding will God be and do I really want to be a part of that? I will really need to pray about this,and listen to the Holy Spirit… We have a new priest so I dont’ know how he feels about this… I think too many people buy into the claim that it is “only good and harmless”

The wild thing is that my husband and I have been debating whether to join the parish off base, and have been praying about it, we really felt our answer was to stay on base because we need to support the Catholic community here, but the next day I read this in the paper.
Thank you so much for your informative and heartfelt post!

 

[Peace-bwu]

Ken:

Should an Airman who practices Wicca be denied use of a government facility because a Catholic dependent doesn’t want to share it?

I agree, they are willing to put their lives on the line and sacrifice for our freedoms and should be entitiled to the freedom of religion too… I have no problem with them meeting in another location and the reason they want to use the chapel is for the political statement you are alluding to. They will be using the facility, I will accept it and make the best of it. However , my concern in this case goes deeper than freedom of religion. I believe 100% that the spirit world they will be (worshiping, or whatever they do) is real and it does not come from God. So we are talking about something beyond our freedom of religion. I will have no choice but to join the civilian church because I don’t want to worship in a place where gods and goddesses are worshiped and witchcraft is present. It isnt about “sharing” it is about the battle of good and evil. I’m not foolish enough to think I can protest this thing and win, nor would I try. The military deals with Earthly laws, not dictating spiritual well being. The fact that it is legal, has nothing to do with whether it is good or evil… Abortion is legal, but we believe it is destroying the image of God, a human being and is a great evil. The military can’ t force someone not to get an abortion either, but most people here agree that it is a great evil, nontheless and would not work in an abortion clinic or have anything to do with it because we care about our souls, and the will of God. the government can’t dictate morality or define evil… So the problem I am facing is “should I stay and try support the community or should I go just to be on the safe side?”

 

[buffalo]

tripp(name removed by moderator)rincezz:

I think it was written by men, which it was. Men who could write whatever they wanted, twist around stories, elaborate on others, even twisting around words or events supposedly from ‘jesus’ or ‘god’ themselves.

This is one of the classic ways to kill someone’s faith. Tell them the Bible was written by men, therefore you cannot trust it. (The same attack is used against the Church - just a bunch of man made laws) First off, the Bible was not written by one man or during a short period of time. The Bible is thousands of years of writings, by many authors. Whether you accept the inerrancy that the Holy Spirit guarantees or not, after reading the Bible to come away with an feeling of “this is a book of men” and has no truth to it is amazing.

Exactly what part of the Bible do you doubt? Is there a particular chapter that you cannot reconcile?

 

[La_Chiara]

Peace-bwu:

The military deals with Earthly laws, not dictating spiritual well being. The fact that it is legal, has nothing to do with whether it is good or evil."

So true. Yet so many believe that if it is legal or if the majority accept something then it is right. Too many won’t stand up for something that they believe is right if the majority doesn’t see it as wrong. For example, abortion.

This is especially difficult in the military community where it is not good for your (or your husband’s) military career to take a stand on something that reflects badly on the “chain of command”. Do what you believe is right and lead by your example. Others will observe your choices and pause to consider what your actions say. God bless you.

 

[trippinprincezz]

Gerry Hunter:

Yes …

Then you deny that the Bible is Holy Scripture, written under the inspiration of God the Holy Spirit, and is inerrant?

No, I believe it was influenced by God, but God himself did not take out a pen and write it. The men who wrote it could have added, substracted, changed whatever they wanted to suit their needs.

I could write my own “Bible” and say it was inspired by God. Maybe some of it was, but I’m pretty sure not all of it would be. The same is with your Bible.

Unfortunately, the attitudes of people here are those of people that are brainwashed. I feel like I’m talking to Jehovah’s Witnesses. I highly doubt your God would be pleased with your attitudes.

 

[trippinprincezz]

Susanna:

Please understand — this is just how I would feel about it. I don’t know this group but I do know when you are raising energy and powers — the one thing that is for certain is that these “energies” are not from God— so where are they from?

If God supposedly created the world and everything in it, he would have created the energy in everything as well. It is also a scientifically proven fact that everything consists of natural energy, and that is where the energy is taken from.