New ‘Declaration of Truths’ Affirms Key Church Teachings

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CilladeRoma said:
No one can say who gets into heaven or not. As Christians we believe salvation is through Christ, but we cannot limit what God may choose to do.
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As Catholics, we believe that salvation is ALWAYS THROUGH CHRIST.

The debate is over whether one has to join the Catholic Church, NOT over whether one has to accept Christ.

People who are saved necessarily accept Christ. “Jesus said to them, ‘I am the Way and the Truth and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through me.’” John 14:6 . This is the Word of God, plain and simple. I have no idea how you can somehow make an argument that somebody goes to Heaven while denying Christ. That’s completely against Catholic teaching.

As I said, it is possible for someone to have an experience of conversion at the moment of death or just before judgment, where they are permitted to accept Christ and be saved. But it’s not optional.
 
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Well there really isn’t any “debate” over whether one has to join the Church for salvation. This has been settled and the answer is no- one does not have to join the physical Church to attain salvation.

Vatican II clarified this.
 
Yes, I know the Catechism lays it to rest, but to the extent there is still any debate, as we often see on this forum, the debate is over “Extra ecclesiam nulla salus”.

It is NOT repeat NOT over whether acceptance of Christ is necessary for salvation.

Please don’t sidetrack the thread.
 
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KMG said:
Accusing a cardinal of denying Church teaching is a serious charge. But of course trashing Cardinal Burke is always acceptable on these fora.
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Accusing a pope of denying Church teaching is a serious charge. But of course trashing Pope Francis is always acceptable on these fora.
 
Tis_Bearself said:
Yes, I know the Catechism lays it to rest, but to the extent there is still any debate, as we often see on this forum, the debate is over “Extra ecclesiam nulla salus”.

It is NOT repeat NOT over whether acceptance of Christ is necessary for salvation.

Please don’t sidetrack the thread.
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Tis, the particular sentence that Cdl Burke has in his sights to undermine is from Pope Francis document “THE GIFTS AND THE CALLING OF GOD ARE IRREVOCABLE”

“That the Jews are participants in God’s salvation is theologically unquestionable, but how that can be possible without confessing Christ explicitly, is and remains an unfathomable divine mystery. It is therefore no accident that Paul’s soteriological reflections in Romans 9-11 on the irrevocable redemption of Israel against the background of the Christ-mystery culminate in a magnificent doxology: “Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! How inscrutable are his judgments and how unsearchable his ways” (Rom 11:33). Bernard of Clairvaux (De cons. III/I,3) says that for the Jews “a determined point in time has been fixed which cannot be anticipated”.”

I’ve researched deeply into the life of StJPII and his particular regard for the Jews and I believe that the place of the Jews in Christian history may well have been revealed by the Holy Spirit through the Shoah, as being part of Gods plan of salvation. So it is not necessary for us to have an explanation as to how a faithful Jew might be saved but it is very necessary for us to articulate a possibility of it as a divine mystery.
 
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Emeraldlady said:
Tis, the particular sentence that Cdl Burke has in his sights to undermine is from Pope Francis document “THE GIFTS AND THE CALLING OF GOD ARE IRREVOCABLE”
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I am replying specifically to Cilla de Roma, who replied to me:
Tis_Bearself:
No people are “rejected” or “accursed” by God, but if you don’t accept Christ, you don’t get into heaven.

Cilla de Roma:
No one can say who gets into heaven or not. As Christians we believe salvation is through Christ, but we cannot limit what God may choose to do.
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I have no idea why everybody seem to wants to talk about everything other than the statement I was replying to. I sense a great desire to undermine Cardinal Burke from some quarters, of course.

And of course the Jews are “participants in God’s salvation”, Jesus and his parents and all the Twelve and many of the other early disciples were Jewish after all.

I have explained above, at least 3 times now, that individuals must accept Christ in order to enter heaven and that this acceptance of Christ might possibly come at the point of death or immediately after death (same for Muslims). Padre Pio himself once told a person her Jewish father, who had died a Jew, was saved. I am not arguing that no Jewish person can go to heaven, but they are going to have to accept Christ, if not before death, then after death, to go there. No one is walking around in Heaven saying, “Yeah, well I don’t believe Jesus is the son of God and the savior.” And I don’t think Pope John Paul II was saying that was what happened, either.

I don’t think there’s any sort of “divine mystery” about individual salvation. I’m no theologian, I simply rely on 2000 years of Catholic teaching here.
 
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Yes, and all who know how to love know Christ though they may not realize it or explicitly state it.
 
13pollitos said:
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Emeraldlady:
To be honest I find Cardinal Burkes agenda to be as repulsive as McCarricks.
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That is really sad. You accuse people of insulting the pope if they so much as ask a question, but then will go on and outright insult a cardinal.
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It’s true. I’m reminded of how much of a mess Cdl Ottaviano created around the time of Vatican II that caused so long and ongoing damage for the Church.
 
The Ottaviani intervention resulted in changes to the text of the introduction to the Novus Ordo Missae. The Ottaviani intervention was an unimpeachable work of scholarship by a man whose job it was to make doctrinal corrections.
 
irenaeus1 said:
But that’s just it… they are not proposing positions opposing the Church’s teaching. In fact, they cite their references, often quoting verbatim from scripture and/or tradition.
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The Church does the same - except the Church is the Church, and the authors of the document are not.
 
TMC said:
The Church does the same - except the Church is the Church, and the authors of the document are not.
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We are all members of the Church as are the authors, and the authors are, as bishops, authentic teachers, inasmuch as they are teaching truth and faithful to scripture and apostolic tradition.
 
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