New Marian apparitions approved [NC Register]

[JosieN]

Think of the Ark as a big waterbed. Think of a womb as a small waterbed.
The Ark preserved the line of the First Adam. The womb carried the Second Adam. But remember it’s a private revelation. It is not teaching doctrine. A private revelation is like an analogy, or a poetic expression pointing to the Truth communicated directly in Public Revelation. It is designed to focus your attention on in particular, the Mass, and **Public Revelation, not mainly other private revelations. **

If a given private revelation, or all private revelations, don’t help you in that way, that is ok. I don’ t like a lot of hymns that happen to inspire other people. So be it. You can’t expect a poem to line up exactly with all the rules of prose.

The local bishop has approved this private revelation, so I am confident it does not conflict with Public Revelation. If you find the Argentina analogy, or private revelation, does not support your devotion, that is fine, it does not say anything lacking about you.

The ark is a ship full of many creatures and animals. Mary’s womb held the Son of God. She was given the role to protect and love the child Jesus. The ark protected animals and Noah’s family. Comparing the two is difficult for me. I am glad it is not a teaching doctrine.

 

[multitude]

The Protoevangelium says that "Your (Eve’s) male offspring (“His”)(Christ) will wound Satan’s head.

Do you have any Patristic quotes indicating that Christ will rely on Mary a “second time”, and that Mary will be the primary conqueror of Satan?

The Latin Vulgate, by St. Jerome, translates as “ipsa conteret caput tuum”; “ipsa” being the feminine pronoun. I’m not sure if that’s what you wanted, though, since there are other versions. If I could find any ECF quotes for this explicitly, I’d gladly post them.

 

[Expatreprocedit]

The Latin Vulgate, by St. Jerome, translates as “ipsa conteret caput tuum”; “ipsa” being the feminine pronoun. I’m not sure if that’s what you wanted, though, since there are other versions. If I could find any ECF quotes for this explicitly, I’d gladly post them.

From the New Jerome Biblical Commentary:

“‘he shall strike your head’ ‘He’ refers to offspring,which is masc. in Hebrew.”

They don’t say if the word for “offspring”, despite being masculine, could refer to either male or female offspring.

I have to say, without meaning any disrespect to the Holy Theotokos, that I find the notion of her being the primary defeater of Satan to be extremely disquieting.

 

[Expatreprocedit]

The Latin Vulgate, by St. Jerome, translates as “ipsa conteret caput tuum”; “ipsa” being the feminine pronoun. I’m not sure if that’s what you wanted, though, since there are other versions. If I could find any ECF quotes for this explicitly, I’d gladly post them.

According to the New Jerome Biblical Commentary, the word for “offspring” is masculine in Hebrew, although they don’t say if it could also refer to female offspring.

I have to say, glory to the Holy Theotokos, that I find the idea of her being the principal defeator of Satan to be highly troubling. Of course she was a defeator of Satan in cooperating in giving birth to Christ. Anything beyond that is problematic to me.

 

[multitude]

According to the New Jerome Biblical Commentary, the word for “offspring” is masculine in Hebrew, although they don’t say if it could also refer to female offspring.

I have to say, glory to the Holy Theotokos, that I find the idea of her being the principal defeator of Satan to be highly troubling. Of course she was a defeator of Satan in cooperating in giving birth to Christ. Anything beyond that is problematic to me.

There are other commentaries and other versions, it’s why I didn’t think it was what you wanted. However, “ipsa” was written into the Latin Vulgate. So you would have to take it up with St. Jerome himself. Anyways, I don’t find this to mean that Our Lady would be the principal defeator, just that Jesus would choose to rely on Her, just like He did 2000 years ago. He didn’t have to come to this world as a little baby, He’s God after all.

 

[Expatreprocedit]

There are other commentaries and other versions, it’s why I didn’t think it was what you wanted. However, “ipsa” was written into the Latin Vulgate. So you would have to take it up with St. Jerome himself. Anyways, I don’t find this to mean that Our Lady would be the principal defeator, just that Jesus would choose to rely on Her, just like He did 2000 years ago. He didn’t have to come to this world as a little baby, He’s God after all.

Well, I’m not a scripture scholar, but my understanding is that the Vulgate is problematic in some of its translations. I know St. Jerome based his OT off of the Masoretic text, rather than the Septuagint. I know it has been, and maybe still is, authoritative for Rome. The Orthodox Church, as you probably know, regards the Septuagint as authoritative.

The first time God “relied” (so to speak) on the Theotokos, in giving birth to Christ, is well-attested in scriputre and in the Tradition and prayers of the first millenium Church. For myself, I am very wary of speculating as to a future “reliance” on the Theotokos. Of course, the Theotokos assists in our salvation by constantly interceding with the Son and the Father on our behalf. But you seem to be postulating something beyond that.

 

[multitude]

Well, I’m not a scripture scholar, but my understanding is that the Vulgate is problematic in some of its translations. I know St. Jerome based his OT off of the Masoretic text, rather than the Septuagint. I know it has been, and maybe still is, authoritative for Rome. The Orthodox Church, as you probably know, regards the Septuagint as authoritative.

Yes. I already knew that, which was why I wasn’t sure if you wanted this, but you did ask for patristic quotes And it does look like St. Jerome’s choice to write it in.

 

[JosieN]

A couple considerations:

1. Our Lord told the apostles the same thing: he who rejects you rejects me, he who accepts you accepts me. If true of the apostles, why would this not be true of His Mother? Rejecting Our Lady would be, in a sense, a rejection of the Church who’s mother she is. One cannot be a good Catholic without venerating Our Lady (at a minimum one must participate in the liturgical veneration of Our Lady at every mass and especially on her feasts).
2. Our Lady is the perfect prototype of the Church. The Church has long held that she is the ark of the covenant who held the eternal Word. If the Church is the ark, in a mystical sense so is Our Lady.** Various authorities have spoken of the Holy Spirit, with Mary, forming each of us into the image of the God-man just as He formed Christ within Mary’s womb. **There is a deep, mysterious connection between Mary and the Church. Even the Second Vatican Council speaks of this mystery. Our Lady was assumed into heaven body and soul, as will all the Church on the last day. Mary anticipates the perfection of the whole Church.

I was wondering what you meant by this statement?

Various authorities have spoken of the Holy Spirit, with Mary, forming each of us into the image of the God-man just as He formed Christ within Mary’s womb.

What authorities have spoken of the Holy Spirit, with Mary, forming each of us into the image of the God-man just as He formed Christ within Mary’s womb? I am not familiar with this.

 

[JosieN]

The Words of the Bible tell us false prophets shall rise, and seduce many, and that many false prophets are gone out into the world. For this reason I believe we should be very cautious when hearing of new apparitions.

“And many false prophets shall rise, and shall seduce many.” Matthew 24:11

“For there shall arise false Christ’s and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect.” Matthew 24:24

“But there were also false prophets among the people, even as there shall be among you lying teachers.” 2 Peter 2:1

“Dearly beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits if they be of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.” 1 John 4:1

 

[Faith1960]

Are we required to believe in these approved apparitions or are they considered private revelation which we may or may not believe?

 

[commenter]

Are we required to believe in these approved apparitions or are they considered private revelation which we may or may not believe?

This is an approved private revelation. It adds nothing to the content of our Faith. It may encourage devotion, as do other private revelations. For some, it may not. No one is required to believe any apparitions claimed in private revelations, nor any of the content therein revealed to us directly or indirectly.

The Catechism tells us what is required to believe for the Catholic Faith. There are no real experts on private revelations other than the Magisterium. Not even the seer. The Magisterium is the only expert, and it makes final decision. You are free to ignore all private apparitions and revelations.

 

[Expatreprocedit]

The ark is a ship full of many creatures and animals. Mary’s womb held the Son of God. She was given the role to protect and love the child Jesus. The ark protected animals and Noah’s family. Comparing the two is difficult for me. I am glad it is not a teaching doctrine.

The ark contained Humanity and Creation (humans and animals), the Theotokos (Mary) contained the One who would redeem Humanity and Creation. In that way, they are similar.

 

[mlz]

Here is the quote from the article regarding “the Ark”

I am questioning how the ark of Noah (a ship)and the Ark of the New Covenant (Mary being the dwelling place of God) can compare to each other. In my opinion they are not similar and it seems strange.

Actually I do see similarities in that salvation was brought to those IN the arm in Noah’s day in the Old Testament while Salvation is brought to those through the Ark of the New Testament through our Blessed Mother! Did you read the old/ New Testament verses I referred you to earlier? It’s so beautiful how our Lord continues to speak of the new covenant in the old and is revealed in the new. That is Just what we heard about tonight at Mass. They quoted Saint Agustine on that ( can’t remember word for word) This reference is not a problem for me or many who hold a devotion to our Blessed Mother.

Here Mary warns us about the illness of materialism. In 1610, when Our Lady of Good Success appeared, she warned us of the Sacrament of Matrimony being attacked, and priests being careless in their duties. Our Lady of Good Success also said that after the middle of the 20th century innocence will almost no longer be found in children, and no modesty in women. These are the types of things she warned us about.

Gladys message from Our Holy Mother Mary speaks of none of these things. It just seems odd to me, and though I would like to believe that Gladys spoke with our Blessed Mother, for these reasons I still have my doubts.

In regards to this I see no conflict as well. Our Blessed Mother can warn us about more than one thing and materialism IS something we must be careful about and very prevalent(sadly) After hearing our message about the two sons of widows raised to life after dying( both in the Old Testament and the New ) I am in AWE at how our Lord works supernaturally then AND now through His Dear Mother who cares for Her children! Praise God!!! To be Christian and a follower of Jesus we shouldn’t be so skeptical. Yes, of course we need to test the spirits, but this WAS tested, AND approved! Now I will admit it isn’t “mandatory” for a Catholic to believe in private revelations but personally this is a shame because you are missing out by not in so many ways.
My love in Him,
mlz

 

[Faith1960]

This is an approved private revelation. It adds nothing to the content of our Faith. It may encourage devotion, as do other private revelations. For some, it may not. No one is required to believe any apparitions claimed in private revelations, nor any of the content therein revealed to us directly or indirectly.

The Catechism tells us what is required to believe for the Catholic Faith. There are no real experts on private revelations other than the Magisterium. Not even the seer. The Magisterium is the only expert, and it makes final decision. You are free to ignore all private apparitions and revelations.

Does you’re answer include approved revelations?

 

[JosieN]

In regards to this I see no conflict as well. Our Blessed Mother can warn us about more than one thing and materialism IS something we must be careful about and very prevalent(sadly) After hearing our message about the two sons of widows raised to life after dying( both in the Old Testament and the New ) I am in AWE at how our Lord works supernaturally then AND now through His Dear Mother who cares for Her children! Praise God!!! To be Christian and a follower of Jesus we shouldn’t be so skeptical. Yes, of course we need to test the spirits, but this WAS tested, AND approved! Now I will admit it isn’t “mandatory” for a Catholic to believe in private revelations but personally this is a shame because you are missing out by not in so many ways.
My love in Him,
mlz

Something is wrong with the way you quoted my reply. I did not write that second paragraph you included in it.

**I did not write the following paragraph, you must have wrote it and included it by mistake. I would not write this. **

Actually I do see similarities in that salvation was brought to those IN the arm in Noah’s day in the Old Testament while Salvation is brought to those through the Ark of the New Testament through our Blessed Mother! Did you read the old/ New Testament verses I referred you to earlier? It’s so beautiful how our Lord continues to speak of the new covenant in the old and is revealed in the new. That is Just what we heard about tonight at Mass. They quoted Saint Agustine on that ( can’t remember word for word) This reference is not a problem for me or many who hold a devotion to our Blessed Mother.

I see no similarities that salvation was brought to those in the ark in Noah’s day in the Old Testament with this interpretation of Mary being the Ark of the New Testament bringing us salvation. The people in Noah’s Ark were saved from the flood but they did not receive salvation from Jesus Christ as He had not died yet. Jesus Christ by His death on the cross brought us salvation, Mary was the Ark of the New covenant, she gave shelter and protection to Christ until His birth. Jesus Christ is the New Covenant. Please read Hebrews chapter 9. I have a devotion to the Blessed mother, but I am questioning this apparition, as it is not what she taught us at Fatima or any other appearance. Here is the Fatima prayer she gave us to say during the rosary.

The Fatima Prayer:

“O my Jesus, forgive us our sins, save us from the fires of hell, and lead all souls to Heaven, especially those in most need of Your Mercy”.
(Our Lady at Fatima, 13th July 1917)

She tells us to ask Jesus to save us from the fires of Hell, this is contrary to what the message in the apparition tells us.

You also left out the quote I was referring to from the apparition. Here it is again.

When Jesus appeared to Gladys he referred to Mary as “my Ark.” Jesus emphasized this major identification again. Gladys first saw the ark of Moses, then the ark of Noah. Jesus said: “In the past, the world was saved by the Ark of Noah. Today my mother is the Ark. It is through her, that souls will be saved, because she will lead them to me. He who rejects my mother, rejects me.”

 

[JosieN]

My real quote would be as follows:

Here is the quote from the article regarding “the Ark”

Quote:
When Jesus appeared to Gladys he referred to Mary as “my Ark.” Jesus emphasized this major identification again. Gladys first saw the ark of Moses, then the ark of Noah. Jesus said: “In the past, the world was saved by the Ark of Noah. Today my mother is the Ark. It is through her, that souls will be saved, because she will lead them to me. He who rejects my mother, rejects me.”

I am questioning how the ark of Noah (a ship)and the Ark of the New Covenant (Mary being the dwelling place of God) can compare to each other. In my opinion they are not similar and it seems strange.

Here is another quote I have concerns with.

Quote:
“It is from here that I invite the world to look for the Living Fountain, the Fountain of Peace, the Fountain of grace. I want to cure my children from this illness which is materialism; an illness which makes many suffer. I want to help them discover Christ, and I want to make it known to them that Christ prevails over everything.”

Here Mary warns us about the illness of materialism. In 1610, when Our Lady of Good Success appeared, she warned us of the Sacrament of Matrimony being attacked, and priests being careless in their duties. Our Lady of Good Success also said that after the middle of the 20th century innocence will almost no longer be found in children, and no modesty in women. These are the types of things she warned us about.

Gladys message from Our Holy Mother Mary speaks of none of these things. It just seems odd to me, and though I would like to believe that Gladys spoke with our Blessed Mother, for these reasons I still have my doubts.

 

[mlz]

Josie,
I apologize - yes I made a mistake in your quotes and my writing- I haven’t yet figured out how to do that ( you can probably tell I’m older!)

Still I do see such similarity as the Old Testament " foreshadows " what’s to come in the New Testament . It isn’t precisely the same but holds the same message. Just like the two texts we had from the Old Testament about the widow who lost her son AND the text in the New Testament about the widow who lost her son AND how this has to do with the Lord becoming a widow when she looses her Son… These OFTEN happen in biblical text!!! The aren’t to be taken literally ( ex in today’s text with the widow and Son as both came to life differently) So it doesn’t have to match as close as you seem to think. You can see this also explained in the Catholic commentary and the CCC. I am so glad you hold to a Marian devotion Our Blessed Mother is so special and helps us more than we think! I am a fairly new convert and never would have thought she would hold such a special place in my heart. God is so good to us. Keep close to our Lord and His sacraments! Blessings,
mlz

 

[Faith1960]

Does you’re answer include approved revelations?

?

 

[JosieN]

Josie,
I apologize - yes I made a mistake in your quotes and my writing- I haven’t yet figured out how to do that ( you can probably tell I’m older!)

Still I do see such similarity as the Old Testament " foreshadows " what’s to come in the New Testament . It isn’t precisely the same but holds the same message. Just like the two texts we had from the Old Testament about the widow who lost her son AND the text in the New Testament about the widow who lost her son AND how this has to do with the Lord becoming a widow when she looses her Son… These OFTEN happen in biblical text!!! The aren’t to be taken literally ( ex in today’s text with the widow and Son as both came to life differently) So it doesn’t have to match as close as you seem to think. You can see this also explained in the Catholic commentary and the CCC. I am so glad you hold to a Marian devotion������ Our Blessed Mother is so special and helps us more than we think! I am a fairly new convert and never would have thought she would hold such a special place in my heart. God is so good to us. Keep close to our Lord and His sacraments! Blessings,
mlz

Thank you for your kind words and apology. I did not mean to sound rude. I was surprised to see a quote made by me which I did not write and thought I should correct it as soon as possible and inform you of the mistake. God Bless!

 

[JosieN]

In the quote of this apparition, Jesus does not mention the devotion to the Immaculate Heart of Mary, from which Our Holy Mother Mary promised salvation at Fatima, In this apparition He calls her the Ark because in the past the world was saved by the Ark. I think it is fair to let one judge for themselves which apparitions are true and worthy of our attention. so I have included both quotes from the apparitions and will let the messages speak for themselves.

When Jesus appeared to Gladys he referred to Mary as “my Ark.” Jesus emphasized this major identification again. Gladys first saw the ark of Moses, then the ark of Noah. Jesus said: “In the past, the world was saved by the Ark of Noah. Today my mother is the Ark. It is through her, that souls will be saved, because she will lead them to me. He who rejects my mother, rejects me.”

WORDS OF OUR LADY OF FATIMA

Jesus wishes to establish in the world devotion to my Immaculate Heart. To those who embrace it I promise salvation.

Pray, pray very much, and offer sacrifices for sinners. Many souls go to hell because there is nobody to offer sacrifices for them.

The sin that takes most souls to hell is lust.

You saw hell, where the souls of poor sinners go. In order to save them, God wishes to establish in the world devotion to my Immaculate Heart.

If people attend to my requests, Russia will be converted and the world will have peace. If not, Russia will spread its errors throughout the world, fomenting wars and persecutions of the Church. The good will have much to suffer, many nations will be annihilated. In the end, my Immaculate Heart will triumph, and an era of peace will be granted to the world.

Do not be discouraged, my Immaculate Heart will never forsake you, but will be your refuge and the way that will lead you to God.

Pray the Rosary every day, to obtain peace for the world

.