New poll confirms widespread dissent from Church moral teachings among US Catholics [CC]
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M
MacBP
Guest
Well by moral teachings I suppose they meant sexual moral teachings. It would be interesting to see the level of dissent in other areas of Catholic morality. Moreover, I think it would be interesting to see how many of those dissenting Catholics can correctly articulate why the Church is opposed to same-sex romantic relationships, same-sex marriage, and contraception. I would guess that the answer to that would be almost no one.
G
gilliam
Guest
**Most American Catholics are comfortable with family arrangements that have been traditionally frowned upon by the church. **
http://www.pewforum.org/files/2015/08/PF_15.09.02_CatholicSurvey_families640px.png
**The survey finds that the share of Americans with some connection to Catholicism approaches half of the country’s adults – 45%.
Among all U.S. adults who were raised Catholic, half (52%) have left the church at some point in their life.
Roughly half or more of U.S. Catholics say that using contraceptives, living with a romantic partner outside of marriage and remarrying after a divorce without an annulment are not sins…
even among frequent churchgoers, majorities are open to non-traditional family arrangements…**
http://www.pewforum.org/files/2015/08/PF_15.09.02_CatholicSurvey_massAttending420px.png
29% say working to address climate change (as urged by Pope Francis in an encyclical released shortly after the survey was conducted) is an essential part of their Catholic identity, and 23% say it is a sin to use energy without considering the environment…
http://www.pewforum.org/files/2015/09/PG-2015-09-02_usCatholics-08.png
more:
pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/09/02/key-findings-about-american-catholics/
http://www.pewforum.org/files/2015/08/PF_15.09.02_CatholicSurvey_families640px.png
**The survey finds that the share of Americans with some connection to Catholicism approaches half of the country’s adults – 45%.
Among all U.S. adults who were raised Catholic, half (52%) have left the church at some point in their life.
Roughly half or more of U.S. Catholics say that using contraceptives, living with a romantic partner outside of marriage and remarrying after a divorce without an annulment are not sins…
even among frequent churchgoers, majorities are open to non-traditional family arrangements…**
http://www.pewforum.org/files/2015/08/PF_15.09.02_CatholicSurvey_massAttending420px.png
29% say working to address climate change (as urged by Pope Francis in an encyclical released shortly after the survey was conducted) is an essential part of their Catholic identity, and 23% say it is a sin to use energy without considering the environment…
http://www.pewforum.org/files/2015/09/PG-2015-09-02_usCatholics-08.png
more:
pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2015/09/02/key-findings-about-american-catholics/
A
AKDee
Guest
I’m not surprised with some of the dissent, but yesterday I read there is a group called “Catholics for choice” who apparently are pro-choice about abortion. While I can see how some areas might be up for question, I simply cannot understand how any Catholic group could support abortion.
B
boldlygo
Guest
They can claim to be Catholic, but the Church does not recognize them as such…membership in this organization results in excommunication in some dioceses…they make up 0.0002% of the Catholic population in the U.S., so calling them relevant is a stretch…
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ProdglArchitect
Guest
A
_Abyssinia
Guest
Some of those statistics for weekly mass or more going Catholics are very concerning but are they fully accurate and representative of the American Catholic population? There may be reason to question polls, especially when it comes to religion, check out this article, In polls we trust, Pew’s response and a response to Pew.
T
Tomdstone
Guest
From the article: “A majority of Catholics believe that the use of contraceptives, extra-marital sex, and remarriage after divorce are not sinful, according to the poll.”
Why are there not more sermons on why it is a mortal sin to use contraceptives?
R
revert_jen
Guest
Indeed. In fact, they shouldn’t say that the answers are from people who attend Mass weekly, but from people who say they attend Mass weekly. Also, everything depends on how the question is asked. Do you ask the question about single-parent homes in such a way that I have to imply disrespect for single parents in order to say the arrangement is less than ideal? You may get a different answer than if you asked it such that I could indicate my great respect for single parents and still say that it’s better to have a married man and woman if it’s possible.
At least you might get a different answer from me if I ever answered polls, which I do not. If a poll could be really anonymous, maybe I would, but any telephone poll can hardly be anonymous, and what I think about basically anything is none of their business. Also, there’s no way to know over the phone whether it’s a real poll, or just someone trying to get information out of you so they can sell you something.
I have to agree with First Things that (at least the part of) the public (that is me) has little confidence in polls. I think the lack of confidence is justified.
–Jen
P.S. I have to mention that although I like Wuthnow’s original article, I disagree with many of his suggestions in the “response-to-the-response.” Some of the suggestions, like:
make no sense at all. Lower response rates aren’t random individuals, they’re self-selected and quite possibly are not representative. How on earth could you figure out what the results would be if the same number of people self-selected out of responding to an earlier survey? The big thing about the people who don’t respond is, you don’t know their answers, just their demographics. You have no way of knowing what it is about them that caused them not to respond, and whether that has a correlation with any of the questions you’re asking.
A few of his other suggestions just seem wrong to me:
I disagree with that one on privacy grounds, and also on “all men are created equal, but some are more equal than others” grounds. If I gave a response on a survey, I didn’t intend for you to look up all possible information about me to determine how important my answer was.
Also, the author appears to be taking for granted something that I do not agree with–that it is important to have reliable survey results. I personally don’t think we need survey results at all, and I am unconvinced (after taking several Psych research methods courses) that there is any such thing possible as reliable survey results.
It’s not that I think that survey results are all wrong, more that I think that when they are right, it is a happy accident.
J
jilly4ski
Guest
I want to know how more people think it is more unacceptable for divorced parents to raise children than single parents, unmarried parents living together or same sex couples* It makes me very suspicious of how the questions were asked. 
*I see that overall acceptance is actually less, but a higher percentage find it just as good as other arrangements (it is in the “acceptable but not as good category” that makes up the difference).
*I see that overall acceptance is actually less, but a higher percentage find it just as good as other arrangements (it is in the “acceptable but not as good category” that makes up the difference).
1
1990Domer
Guest
They can spin questions to get the answers they want. Take it from the wife of a very miffed Ph.D. (in statistics) husband!
Also, those who say they support SSM are equally Catholic-in-name-only, AKA Protestants.
Sorry, don’t mean to be snarky.
Also, those who say they support SSM are equally Catholic-in-name-only, AKA Protestants.
Sorry, don’t mean to be snarky.
M
MJJean
Guest
I’d be right there with you guys doubting the polls, but the truth is that the same numbers are being seen time and time again including in polls taken by catholics and catholic media. Just go Googling, you’ll find tons.
C
ctb95
Guest
75% of Catholics can’t even make it to mass on a given Sunday. If they can’t do that, then how can they be expected to uphold the Church’s moral teachings?
J
JimG
Guest
I wouldn’t characterize these results so much as “dissent” as massive moral ignorance, no doubt resulting from an era of failed catechesis. Well, “failed,” is the wrong term too, to characterize the catechesis of that era. It ranged from ignorance to laziness to deliberate determination to teach error and obfuscate moral truth.
But one shouldn’t be surprised at moral ignorance. The State of the American Mind has been in general decline for some decades now.
But one shouldn’t be surprised at moral ignorance. The State of the American Mind has been in general decline for some decades now.
P
Petaro
Guest
The American Church has possibly failed to teach the young the reasons behind the moral teachings of the Church. By this I don’t lay all the blame on the hierarchy or the catholic schools, but the parents of the Church whose abdicate their responsibility to their children in any attempt to raise them in the Faith.
My son is sick to death of me talking about the evil of abortion etc; however if that is all he remembers of me I have done my job. ( This is undoubtedly simplistic in assessing our relationship, but you understand my emphasis within this debate.)
When did you hear the last sermon on contraception; or a definitive analysis of the role of Natural Law in assessing Same Sex Marriage? Don’t hold your breath.
It is therefore natural within the tide of our society that many of us fail to reason out what we are told are regressive values espoused by an out-of-date Church and that the ‘progressive’ freedoms of “whatever you believe” morality is the path to democratic liberty.
The firm teaching role of the Bishops, accepted as normal at the time of say, Cardinal Sheen needs to be taken up by more Bishops, not that many are not already accepting the vilification of the left in promoting true Catholic teaching. It is just that so few Americans go to Mass that the word falls upon barren ground.
My son is sick to death of me talking about the evil of abortion etc; however if that is all he remembers of me I have done my job. ( This is undoubtedly simplistic in assessing our relationship, but you understand my emphasis within this debate.)
When did you hear the last sermon on contraception; or a definitive analysis of the role of Natural Law in assessing Same Sex Marriage? Don’t hold your breath.
It is therefore natural within the tide of our society that many of us fail to reason out what we are told are regressive values espoused by an out-of-date Church and that the ‘progressive’ freedoms of “whatever you believe” morality is the path to democratic liberty.
The firm teaching role of the Bishops, accepted as normal at the time of say, Cardinal Sheen needs to be taken up by more Bishops, not that many are not already accepting the vilification of the left in promoting true Catholic teaching. It is just that so few Americans go to Mass that the word falls upon barren ground.
J
JimG
Guest
Your mention of Bishop Sheen reminded me that in the 1950’s he had one of the most popular TV shows of all time, consisting of nothing but him essentially giving a homily! In those days, even Protestants were better schooled in Catholic moral theology than are most Catholics today!
P
powerofk
Guest
Honestly, as I looked at the charts, I thought one thing - the Pew Research Center added up both the Dark Blue (Acceptable and as good) and light blue (Not the optimal, but acceptable anyway) together. But see, that’s not the point.
The light blue is saying, “I don’t think this is the best situation for the child, but… I’m not going to take the child away from his/her family just because it’s not the ideal.” There’s a huge difference in this and outright approving of the situation.
The light blue is saying, “I don’t think this is the best situation for the child, but… I’m not going to take the child away from his/her family just because it’s not the ideal.” There’s a huge difference in this and outright approving of the situation.
H
HerCrazierHalf
Guest
Adding the two categories of acceptance is a bit misleading to be fair.
As someone looking from the outside it is interesting to see so many would like changes that to my understanding are nearly impossible.
http://www.pewforum.org/files/2015/08/PF_15.09.02_CatholicSurvey_pies640px.png.
Source:
pewforum.org/2015/09/02/u-s-catholics-open-to-non-traditional-families/
As someone looking from the outside it is interesting to see so many would like changes that to my understanding are nearly impossible.
http://www.pewforum.org/files/2015/08/PF_15.09.02_CatholicSurvey_pies640px.png.
Source:
pewforum.org/2015/09/02/u-s-catholics-open-to-non-traditional-families/
A
_Abyssinia
Guest
Presumably it can’t be verified if Catholics go to mass weekly or more or not, so they have to take somebody’s word for it and it seems possible that there may be some people who aren’t telling the truth, and so couldn’t you potentially get not a full reality of what practising Catholics believe. There is little doubt that some practising Catholics do not agree with the Church on everything but I’m not 100% convinced it’s as high as some polls claim.Indeed. In fact, they shouldn’t say that the answers are from people who attend Mass weekly, but from people who say they attend Mass weekly. Also, everything depends on how the question is asked. Do you ask the question about single-parent homes in such a way that I have to imply disrespect for single parents in order to say the arrangement is less than ideal? You may get a different answer than if you asked it such that I could indicate my great respect for single parents and still say that it’s better to have a married man and woman if it’s possible.
At least you might get a different answer from me if I ever answered polls, which I do not. If a poll could be really anonymous, maybe I would, but any telephone poll can hardly be anonymous, and what I think about basically anything is none of their business. Also, there’s no way to know over the phone whether it’s a real poll, or just someone trying to get information out of you so they can sell you something.
I have to agree with First Things that (at least the part of) the public (that is me) has little confidence in polls. I think the lack of confidence is justified.
–Jen
P.S. I have to mention that although I like Wuthnow’s original article, I disagree with many of his suggestions in the “response-to-the-response.” Some of the suggestions, like:
make no sense at all. Lower response rates aren’t random individuals, they’re self-selected and quite possibly are not representative. How on earth could you figure out what the results would be if the same number of people self-selected out of responding to an earlier survey? The big thing about the people who don’t respond is, you don’t know their answers, just their demographics. You have no way of knowing what it is about them that caused them not to respond, and whether that has a correlation with any of the questions you’re asking.
A few of his other suggestions just seem wrong to me:
I disagree with that one on privacy grounds, and also on “all men are created equal, but some are more equal than others” grounds. If I gave a response on a survey, I didn’t intend for you to look up all possible information about me to determine how important my answer was.
Also, the author appears to be taking for granted something that I do not agree with–that it is important to have reliable survey results. I personally don’t think we need survey results at all, and I am unconvinced (after taking several Psych research methods courses) that there is any such thing possible as reliable survey results.
It’s not that I think that survey results are all wrong, more that I think that when they are right, it is a happy accident.
A
_Abyssinia
Guest
Presumably it can’t be verified if Catholics go to mass weekly or more or not, so they have to take somebody’s word for it and it seems possible that there may be some people who aren’t telling the truth, and so couldn’t you potentially get not a full reality of what practising Catholics believe. There is little doubt that some practising Catholics do not agree with the Church on everything but I’m not 100% convinced it’s as high as some polls claimIndeed. In fact, they shouldn’t say that the answers are from people who attend Mass weekly, but from people who say they attend Mass weekly. Also, everything depends on how the question is asked. Do you ask the question about single-parent homes in such a way that I have to imply disrespect for single parents in order to say the arrangement is less than ideal? You may get a different answer than if you asked it such that I could indicate my great respect for single parents and still say that it’s better to have a married man and woman if it’s possible.
At least you might get a different answer from me if I ever answered polls, which I do not. If a poll could be really anonymous, maybe I would, but any telephone poll can hardly be anonymous, and what I think about basically anything is none of their business. Also, there’s no way to know over the phone whether it’s a real poll, or just someone trying to get information out of you so they can sell you something.
I have to agree with First Things that (at least the part of) the public (that is me) has little confidence in polls. I think the lack of confidence is justified.
–Jen
P.S. I have to mention that although I like Wuthnow’s original article, I disagree with many of his suggestions in the “response-to-the-response.” Some of the suggestions, like:
make no sense at all. Lower response rates aren’t random individuals, they’re self-selected and quite possibly are not representative. How on earth could you figure out what the results would be if the same number of people self-selected out of responding to an earlier survey? The big thing about the people who don’t respond is, you don’t know their answers, just their demographics. You have no way of knowing what it is about them that caused them not to respond, and whether that has a correlation with any of the questions you’re asking.
A few of his other suggestions just seem wrong to me:
I disagree with that one on privacy grounds, and also on “all men are created equal, but some are more equal than others” grounds. If I gave a response on a survey, I didn’t intend for you to look up all possible information about me to determine how important my answer was.
Also, the author appears to be taking for granted something that I do not agree with–that it is important to have reliable survey results. I personally don’t think we need survey results at all, and I am unconvinced (after taking several Psych research methods courses) that there is any such thing possible as reliable survey results.
It’s not that I think that survey results are all wrong, more that I think that when they are right, it is a happy accident.
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