New poll confirms widespread dissent from Church moral teachings among US Catholics [CC]

[Usige]

I was reading through the full report (available here) and one thing I wish they’d ask about dissent is if the person knows the church teaching. For example if someone says no to a question like “do you beleive using contraception is a sin?” then it would be nice to have a follow up along the lines of “are you aware the church teaches using contraception is grave mater to the point of being a mortal sin?” The point being to seperate those who are ignorant versus those who are flipping God the spiritual bird. That being said, with 55% of weekly attendees indicating a good chance that the church will change teaching on birth control by 2050 I suspect many do know the teaching and simply beleive they are right and the church is wrong.

It is also interesting to read how many accept teaching contrary to the Church in comparison to the number that state they receive the Eucharist every week or almost every week. I wish I had access to the raw data to see how many do not beleive X is a sin, but still receive each week. And yes I know accepting something as not sinful is not in of itself committing said sin, but it does point to the question of how many material heretics receive regularly.

While I take all polls with a grain of salt it is still interesting to see how many people are Catholic because they accept Church teachings as truth versus people who are Catholic because of culture or ancestry.

 

[Usige]

Your mention of Bishop Sheen reminded me that in the 1950’s he had one of the most popular TV shows of all time, consisting of nothing but him essentially giving a homily! In those days, even Protestants were better schooled in Catholic moral theology than are most Catholics today!

That is undoubtedly true. Even at that I believe many Catholics have essentially decided that personal conscious trumps Church teaching. Even if they know the what and why they simply reject it because they think the teaching is outdated and needs to be changed. Many sincere Catholics have been infected by this false notion that morality is a completely fluid concept. They have rejected the idea that there is objective truth and accept a relavistic world view.

 

[Tomdstone]

Many sincere Catholics have been infected by this false notion that morality is a completely fluid concept. They have rejected the idea that there is objective truth and accept a relavistic world view.

Why aren’t there more sermons explaining the Roman Catholic teaching on this?

 

[bibcat]

From the article: “A majority of Catholics believe that the use of contraceptives, extra-marital sex, and remarriage after divorce are not sinful, according to the poll.”
Why are there not more sermons on why it is a mortal sin to use contraceptives?

Probably because clergy is loath to witness the mass [no pun intended] eye-rolling that would occur amongst the flock during such a homily.

 

[Glomung]

Some of those statistics for weekly mass or more going Catholics are very concerning but are they fully accurate and representative of the American Catholic population? There may be reason to question polls, especially when it comes to religion, check out this article, In polls we trust, Pew’s response and a response to Pew.

Who was it that said “there are lies, damned lies, and statistics” ?

 

[CHRISTINE77]

A lapsed Catholic is not a Catholic. If a lapsed Catholic wants to come back to the Church they need to embrace the teachings. A person who was once Catholic but who has fallen from the faith is NOT a Catholic. These polls are so skewed and tiresome.

 

[Tomdstone]

Probably because clergy is loath to witness the … eye-rolling that would occur amongst the flock during such a homily.

I thought it was the duty of the clergy to teach and sanctify the faithful ?

 

[ComplineSanFran]

A lapsed Catholic is not a Catholic. If a lapsed Catholic wants to come back to the Church they need to embrace the teachings. A person who was once Catholic but who has fallen from the faith is NOT a Catholic. These polls are so skewed and tiresome.

I believe that every person who is baptized a Roman Catholic is considered Catholic. And for the record keeping, unless a person specifically asks to be removed from the rolls, they are counted. That’s pretty much how you get to claim the 70 million members in the US.

Second point, a self-identified Catholic or lapsed Catholic is still counted, especially when asked directly.

The PEW study was actually very helpful to see where people fell on the continuum of both beliefs and practices.

 

[Thomas_White]

A lapsed Catholic is not a Catholic. If a lapsed Catholic wants to come back to the Church they need to embrace the teachings. A person who was once Catholic but who has fallen from the faith is NOT a Catholic. These polls are so skewed and tiresome.

This is incorrect. Baptism is a sacrament. It cannot be undone and even an excommunicated Catholic remains a Catholic. This is Church teaching.

 

[JimG]

I suspect that if one surveyed only Catholics who attend Mass weekly, the results might find very little dissent. Those who dissent by not keeping the most basic of Catholic duties–attending Sunday Mass–will be more likely to dissent on other matters as well.

I know a person who gave his religious affiliation as “Catholic” when asked in a hospital. But he hasn’t come anywhere near a Catholic church for 40 years.

 

[ComplineSanFran]

I suspect that if one surveyed only Catholics who attend Mass weekly, the results might find very little dissent. Those who dissent by not keeping the most basic of Catholic duties–attending Sunday Mass–will be more likely to dissent on other matters as well.

I know a person who gave his religious affiliation as “Catholic” when asked in a hospital. But he hasn’t come anywhere near a Catholic church for 40 years.

I don’t think your first statement is true. In my circle, Roman Catholics are very progressive and very faithful. They will go to Mass and participate in many parish activities. They just disagree on all the things listed in the study - birth control, gender issues, marriage, divorce, and even abortion. Don’t equivocate practice of the faith with ‘political’ issues of the church.(That is probably the wrong word, sorry).

And as I said before, self-identifying Catholics can be anywhere along the continuum, even 40 years away from darkening the doors of a church.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

I believe that every person who is baptized a Roman Catholic is considered Catholic. And for the record keeping, unless a person specifically asks to be removed from the rolls, they are counted. That’s pretty much how you get to claim the 70 million members in the US.

Second point, a self-identified Catholic or lapsed Catholic is still counted, especially when asked directly.

The PEW study was actually very helpful to see where people fell on the continuum of both beliefs and practices.

Well they are deluded if they identify themselves as Catholic and never go to church.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

This is incorrect. Baptism is a sacrament. It cannot be undone and even an excommunicated Catholic remains a Catholic. This is Church teaching.

That may be true, but just because you are baptized Catholic at a very early age, does not mean that you know anything about the faith. Lapsed Catholics can be very irreligious and commit a myriad of sins. I should know, I was one for a number of years and it’s nothing to be proud of.

 

[zz912]

I don’t think your first statement is true. In my circle, Roman Catholics are** very progressive and very faithful.** They will go to Mass and participate in many parish activities. They just disagree on all the things listed in the study - birth control, gender issues, marriage, divorce, and even abortion. Don’t equivocate practice of the faith with ‘political’ issues of the church.(That is probably the wrong word, sorry).

And as I said before, self-identifying Catholics can be anywhere along the continuum, even 40 years away from darkening the doors of a church.

No, they are not. You are one or the other. You can NOT be a faithful Catholic and support birth control, SS"M", divorce or abortion. If you support those things, you are by definition an UNFAITHFUL Catholic.

 

[zz912]

I hope the bishops and priests study this information VERY thoroughly. Their flocks are on the highway to hell, and I hope they have the fortitude to try and shepherd their flock away from the evil they are embracing.

 

[ARSpade]

I hope the bishops and priests study this information VERY thoroughly. Their flocks are on the highway to hell, and I hope they have the fortitude to try and shepherd their flock away from the evil they are embracing.

While some will say, “We’ve done a terrible job leading and educating our flock” I fear some will feel they should let the “sense of the ‘faithful’”, poorly educated that they are, lead the way.

 

[JimG]

I don’t think your first statement is true. In my circle, Roman Catholics are very progressive and very faithful. They will go to Mass and participate in many parish activities. They just disagree on all the things listed in the study - birth control, gender issues, marriage, divorce, and even abortion. Don’t equivocate practice of the faith with ‘political’ issues of the church.(That is probably the wrong word, sorry).

And as I said before, self-identifying Catholics can be anywhere along the continuum, even 40 years away from darkening the doors of a church.

You seem to be describing people who don’t believe anything the Catholic Church teaches doctrinally, yet describe themselves as “Catholic” and like to go to church on Sunday. The fact is, if they disbelieve in the doctrines of the Church, then describing them as “Catholic” is more fantasy than reality.

 

[Usige]

No, they are not. You are one or the other. You can NOT be a faithful Catholic and support birth control, SS"M", divorce or abortion. If you support those things, you are by definition an UNFAITHFUL Catholic.

That reminds me of something I heard Archbishop Chaput once say: “Being kinda Catholic is like being kinda pregnant. You either are or you aren’t. If you disagree with the Church you are wrong and need to changer your thinking.”

If you look at the definition of heresy those who accept birth control, abortion, and other darlings of liberalism are objectively guilty of heresy. They know the teaching yet persist in “obstinate post-baptismal denial” of truths “which must be believed with divine and catholic faith.” Now we can argue if it is formal heresy or simply material heresy, but it is heretical to beleive those standpoint are compatible with the faith.

Personally I think the issue comes down to rejecting authority and the ever softening tone we hear. I am suprised people haven’t called me on using the “h word”, but despite those who say the pastoral approach brings more people in we are still are losing souls. They may be sitting in the pews, but that does no good if we cannot heal them of the poison rotting their souls. Offering candy for flu shots doesn’t work if you can’t give the shot because you are afraid some will leave.

 

[commenter]

A “Practicing Catholic” is someone who receives the sacraments regularly, and accepts the Holy Father as the visible head of the Church. It means not just attending Mass, but going to Confession, and living a life consistent with the teachings of the Church on Marriage.
This is the definition used by the K of C, and the only one I would consider useful in measuring Catholic beliefs and practices.

 

[ComplineSanFran]

A “Practicing Catholic” is someone who receives the sacraments regularly, and accepts the Holy Father as the visible head of the Church. It means not just attending Mass, but going to Confession, and living a life consistent with the teachings of the Church on Marriage.
This is the definition used by the K of C, and the only one I would consider useful in measuring Catholic beliefs and practices.

And for many, I am sure it is a good definition. What the study is showing, is that there are a whole lot of US Catholics who have differing definitions. Those definitions may not make sense to you, but they do to that large percentage of people.

As I said earlier, there really is a continuum of beliefs and practices of those who self-define as Catholics.

You can define yourself according to the K of C checklist, but do look around you and see the rest of your brothers and sisters.