New Study: Undocumented Immigrants Not Linked to Urban Crime

[whatistrue]

Nobody knows the percentage. If it’s technically a crime, it’s a crime.

But if you are insisting it is tied to urban crime you need to back up all of that, including the “urban” part.

So we have a crime. And the specified penalty is no more than 6 month’s imprisonment. Feel better? Now how about we go after the speeders and jaywalkers next? After all, a crime is a crime.

 

[Formon]

So we have a crime

Thank you.

 

[whatistrue]

How about not editing so as to change the entire point of the post? Not cool.

 

[adamhovey1988]

I can literally give you a ton of documents that say otherwise. (Yes, I mean that in the literal sense, as in 2000 lbs for a short ton)
And, by the way, I kind of support a middle-of-the way position on immigration.
But, you know, say whatever you want, see whatever you want.

 

[adamhovey1988]

I can’t trust “facts” without evidence from different sources. Because, as it stands, several different studies with the information gathered by different individuals, has come up mixed.

That’s kind of the point I see. You can’t say “this one source that used like minded people equals this one definitive source”.

 

[Victoria33]

It appears incontrovertible proof likewise, that many undocumented immigrants are in the prison system. One has to look at the prison population.

One in five US prison inmates is a ‘criminal alien’ | The Hill

 

[frarmandofm]

Even if every single one of them was an angel, they are not Americans and they have no right to be here. Immigration is a gift that be given or taken at any time and it is not owed to anyone from anywhere. The US government has a duty to its citizens and no others.

Even if every single one of them was an angel, they are not citizens of this country and have no right to be here. Immigration is a gift to be given or taken at any time and it is not owed to anyone from anywhere. The Egyptian government has a duty to its citizens and no others. Accepting immigrants from Israel is harming our country. I don’t care if King Herod is trying to kill their baby son.

 

[RhodesianSon]

You are aware Judea and Egypt were both Roman provinces at the time right?

 

[Theo520]

It’s irrelevant if they participate in urban crime at higher or lower rates than citizens.

Illegal immigration increases crime by taking jobs away from other low skilled workers. This suppresses wages and keeps citizens unemployed rather than improving their lives. General poverty and unemployment is linked to crime

I’m not critiquing their moral character. People hire them expressly because they are hard working and motivated employees, for the lower wage offered.

 

[RhodesianSon]

And young black men are the number one victim of immigration, legal and otherwise.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Most of the undocumented immigrants around here aren’t living in an “urban” area. They’re agricultural workers.

There are still quite a few involved in various crimes. A lot of it is drug crime and prostitution, not property crime. Just going by the reports I see in the newspapers on a fairly regular basis.

I would say the majority of the undocumented immigrants are okay though.

 

[Theo520]

There are still quite a few involved in various crimes. A lot of it is drug crime and prostitution, not property crime.

Yea, that may explain why this study limited their analysis to specific crimes, like property. More agenda driven research where it’s done to support the headlines they wish.

 

[27lw]

Exactly - the study is 154 urban areas. They may already be cesspools of crime to begin with.

Hmmm, what about all these crime victims?

Angel Families – Spreading Our Wings Coast to Coast

 

[blackforest]

Research and data is easy to lie about. As is obvious in the last 10 years. And, of course, that can go either way. And it does.

If you are accusing this author of lying, please point to which part or facet of his study is misleading.

However, when I have personal friends that work on the department, and they testify that the vast majority of violent crimes are from undocumented immigrants, why would I listen to a paper over:

-what i have seen first hand

-what law enforcement has seen first hand

Because anecdotes are not evidence. Anecdotes can mislead us into thinking that what we perceive is the truth when in reality it’s mired in exceptions, bias, etc.

I certainly expected replies along the lines of, “I don’t like what that study found, so I’m not going to believe it.” But such a notion shouldn’t be based on personal anecdotes.

It appears incontrovertible proof likewise, that many undocumented immigrants are in the prison system. One has to look at the prison population.

When people go digging for counterpoints in a debate, I’m always curious how deeply they dug. Did you read the actual study referenced in the article?

42 percent of the offenses that these criminal aliens were
arrested for were related to immigration and 26 percent were related to
drugs or traffic violations.

“Related to drugs” could be as simple as getting caught with marijuana during a traffic stop. These are not violent crimes or property crimes like those referenced in the aforementioned study, so this post doesn’t really prove wrong what I shared in the first post.

 

[Annie]

I would really want to see more information on the study, especially what crimes they studied and how much we know about those crimes.

For example, I have read that some illegal entrants (those who enter illegally and stay) are brought up on a sort of indentured servitude basis and end up working in sweatshops with lots of Labor safety violations. If we don’t know about them, they are not counted in statistics.

And there are those who are trafficked for illegal sex operations, and that is a very scary proposition. They keep the women locked up in businesses masquerading as massage parlors and nail painting places, and they are in regular suburban malls.

I am with @Genesis315. “Good” illegal immigrants provide a smokescreen for bad guys. We need to have better enforcement at the border, but I think that allowing people in should be based on reality, like what our true needs are (not just to save corporations money while leaving US grass unemployed), and what the true desires of those who want to come here are.

Also, stop birthright citizenship and passing it down through generations who are not here.

 

[HarryStotle]

This study focuses on property crime and violent crime. It is rigorous, promising, and hopefully puts to rest the accusation that undocumented immigrants are making U.S. cities more crime-ridden. UB study finds no apparent link between undocumented immigration, crime - UB Now: News and views for UB faculty and staff - University at Buffalo

With this new knowledge, …

This is not “new knowledge.” Adelman has been researching the subject for 40 years and consistently finds the same result.

Funny how the social sciences can have such a high reproducibility rate when human beings and the social context aren’t as constant as particles in physics. Either his research methodology is flawless, human beings are remarkably consistent and the times - contrary to what Bob Dylan thinks - are not a-changin, or Dr Adelman desperately wants his conclusion to be true.

Are there corroborative studies from researchers who are not so committed to demonstrating the conclusion to be true? You know, researchers who don’t agree with Adelman’s findings initially but discover he is correct only after analyzing their own data?

 

[otjm]

Let’s see; we have M-13 as well as other gangs, and ICE must be made up of some seriously misguided individuals, as they are trying with little success to pick up undocumented individuals when they are released from jail (county level) or prison (state level) in cities which have amnesty - but the study would seem to suggest that no undocumented individuals are in jails or prisons.

Okay.

 

[blackforest]

This is not “new knowledge.” Adelman has been researching the subject for 40 years and consistently finds the same result.

Wow. With all of this successful reproducability, t’s like an academic expert may be on to something. It’s true that most, if not all, researchers have a particular area of expertise.

Funny how the social sciences can have such a high reproducibility rate when human beings and the social context aren’t as constant as particles in physics.

Neither hard sciences nor social sciences will be an exact art. But they do a lot better in explaining different phenomenon than personal prejudices or anecdotes.

Either his research methodology is flawless, human beings are remarkably consistent and the times

It’s pretty rigorous, but 0% of studies are flawless. This is why reproducitbility is so important.

I expected to hear a lot of outcry from people who feel challenged or threatened by the results of his recent study. But I was truly hoping for more substantive criticism. Perhaps you’d like to step up to the plate? Feel free to tell us why, (and specifically where), he’s wrong. https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/0735648X.2020.1819375

Are there corroborative studies from researchers who are not so committed to demonstrating the conclusion to be true?

There’s a sizable body of research on this topic, yes. I won’t be doing your homework assignments for you, but Google scholar is your best friend.

Let’s see; we have M-13 as well as other gangs,

That may have been part of the impetus for this study, to debunk conspiracy theories about vast networks of MS13 infiltrating the country. After being here 2-5 years, you’d think they would have gone on a serious crime spree by now . . .

but the study would seem to suggest that no undocumented individuals are in jails or prisons.

It’s more complex than that. Feel free to read it. I link it in this post.

 

[Annie]

But I was truly hoping for more substantive criticism

I think there are 2 difficulties right off the bat. One is that we do not know which crimes were investigated: violent crimes and property crimes? Violent crimes are known to the police only if someone complains or there is a body or severely injured person who comes to their attention otherwise.

My previous comment touched upon crimes against persons the police may not have even known about. How is this taken into account in the study?

And what property crimes? Arson, vandalism, car thefts?

The article is very vague on these points.

Another is if they looked at arrests, convictions, or what in order to determine how much crime is committed by those here illegally. They didn’t specify how Adelman did his research, but I have the impression that he compared crime rates over time with the estimated number of people in those cities illegally over the same period of time.

But for the past couple of decades, crime has been falling generally. Perhaps crime rates would have fallen more had there been no people here illegally? How can that be corrected for?

And finally, as someone who has tried to find out information about crime rates among those here illegally, it seems that this type of record is not kept.

This is what I think given the small amount of information we have about the study.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

One is that we do not know which crimes were investigated: violent crimes and property crimes? Violent crimes are known to the police only if someone complains or there is a body or severely injured person who comes to their attention otherwise.

Even property crimes need to be reported, or the police never find out.

A big issue is that undocumented immigrants often exploit or prey upon other undocumented immigrants. Their victims are often afraid to go to the police, or even talk to the police when investigators arrive, for fear of getting deported themselves. Even if they themselves are legal, they may have family members who are not, and they don’t want any bad consequences on them. Furthermore, if they’re part of an immigrant community that also includes the criminals, they may be vulnerable to revenge by the criminal and his gang as well.

It’s highly likely that crimes by undocumented immigrants are underreported for this reason.