News from Diocese of Saginaw, MI

[frommi]

Rome didn’t send Bishop Carlson to Saginaw to punish and condemn but to breathe new life into the diocese with the help of the Holy Spirit. Life can only be sustained if nourished, and that nourishment for Catholics is the Eucharist. Without the Eucharist, there is no Church. It is the source and center of who we are.

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Quite the straw man argument…I’d be curious if you went to any of these three priests who you apparently hoping retire (or I guess die off)…if you went to any of them, and asked if they disagreed with the paragraph I just quoted from you…what would they say?

There isn’t a Catholic in Saginaw or anywhere else who would disagree with that statement, and yet you imply that they would. I’m sure it’s on the usual flimsy basis.

This is the (as it has been for 4 years) the problem with these arguments…you are contesting a point that NO ONE IS CONTESTING. Thus opening up the road to flowery platitudes about how one bishop brought the holy spirit better than the other…blah blah blah.

There were stark differences and striking similarities between the two bishops, this is true. As far as ‘vision of the church’…what makes any of us think we know which way this ship is headed is way beyond me…its 2000 years old in a world that is billions of years old…theres lots of time for things to grow, change, and endure.

 

[Lepanto]

I’d be curious if you went to any of these three priests who you apparently hoping retire (or I guess die off)

Priests were dying/retiring under Bishop Ken too, except that they weren’t being replaced.

As far as ‘vision of the church’…what makes any of us think we know which way this ship is headed is way beyond me

No priests = closed parishes = no Eucharist. That’s the way I saw the diocese headed.

 

[JonesyCup]

You know, I don’t honestly know what they would say. Do you know these men? Have they ever struck you as being joy-filled and exuberant with love for their vocation and for the gift of the Eucharist? What have they done in their parishes to foster a culture of vocations? How many young men have been inspired by their priestly example to become priests themselves? That is a question I would be curious to hear their answer to.

Regarding my comment about the Holy Spirit, it wasn’t an assertion that one bishop is better or holier than the other. However, I don’t think it can be argued that the increase in vocations was anything but the work of the Holy Spirit. I don’t even think Bishop Carlson would try to take credit for that one. One need not point only to the number of vocations, but there are many other good things Bishop Carlson has cultivated, just as our new bishop will bring his own strengths and talents to the table.

 

[frommi]

Priests were dying/retiring under Bishop Ken too, except that they weren’t being replaced.

No priests = closed parishes = no Eucharist. That’s the way I saw the diocese headed.

First of all, the population in the whole Saginaw area is declining, and anyone who would believe they shouldn’t close a few parishes is a fool, but that’s more of an aside.

As far as the holy spirit goes…I don’t know what spirit seems to conveniently move the hearts of men to leave Colombia and go to Saginaw, Michigan…but look around you, Bishop Carlson was no more successful in cultivating local vocations to the priesthood than Bishop Ken.

 

[saggal]

JonesyCup:

In fact, I do know both Fr. Sutton (who married my husband and I) and Fr. Heller. Both of them are deeply devoted to their vocation, and I resent your implication that somehow they aren’t.

One of the first things that struck me about Fr. Heller was his absolute joy in priesthood. If a man was contemplating a vocation, I would recommend he speak with Fr. Jim.

And that’s not to take away from Fr. Tom, who also is a fine man, and a wonderful priest.

I’m not familiar at all with Fr. Falsey.

As I stated before, I had my problems with decisons that Bishop Untener made during his episcopy. However, that does not mean he was all wrong. And those things that I disagreed with are slowly changing. And that’s OK. It doesn’t have to happen overnight.

However, one of the things I love about our priests – and this was something emphasized by both Bishop Untener and Bishop Carlson – is that they convey beautifully the sense of love and mercy God has for each and every one of us.

 

[Lepanto]

First of all, the population in the whole Saginaw area is declining, and anyone who would believe they shouldn’t close a few parishes is a fool, but that’s more of an aside.

My relatives who live in the Ubley area tell me that some 30 parishes in the diocese are currently run by pastoral administrators, mostly religious sisters. Should we start with those?

As far as the holy spirit goes…I don’t know what spirit seems to conveniently move the hearts of men to leave Colombia and go to Saginaw, Michigan…but look around you, Bishop Carlson was no more successful in cultivating local vocations to the priesthood than Bishop Ken.

Maybe the same Spirit that first brought the Jesuit missionaries to Michigan three hundred years ago?

 

[frommi]

My relatives who live in the Ubley area tell me that some 30 parishes in the diocese are currently run by pastoral administrators, mostly religious sisters. Should we start with those?

Not necessairly…I was thinking more about cities like Bay City where there are 30,000 people in town and a Catholic church every 6 blocks…many run by priests.

 

[lrs]

First of all, the population in the whole Saginaw area is declining, and anyone who would believe they shouldn’t close a few parishes is a fool, but that’s more of an aside.

As far as the holy spirit goes…I don’t know what spirit seems to conveniently move the hearts of men to leave Colombia and go to Saginaw, Michigan…but look around you, Bishop Carlson was no more successful in cultivating local vocations to the priesthood than Bishop Ken.

Frommi, you are far removed from this area, the last I remember you lived several hundred miles from here. So, unless you are completely immersed in the faith life in this diocese, I would guess that it would be quite difficult for your to accurately assess, in any concrete way, what is going on precisely here. I take it that you have not attended any seminarian benefit dinners, charity balls (they just raised $675k for schools, not conveniently either), March for Life in Washington, deacon, nun/sister , and priest ordinations, Evangelization round table meetings with the Bishop, etc etc. Your direct neighbor (ie in Saginaw, Bay City and elsewhere) has not directly lost their job, their health care (of which Bishop pushed hard for a free health care clinic). I take it that you have second hand information at the best, and an agenda at the worst.

AND, if for one small second ,you took the time,to get to know how it was that a specific seminarian came into this diocese, if you got to know them, or attended any ordinations, and PRAYED for them, your mind and your heart would opened. The Mud would be removed from your eyes, but you first must really really want it. YES< the HOLY SPIRIT DID CONVENIENTLY, IN WISDOM, BRING 3 COLUMBIANS TO THIS DIOCESE, AND LOCAL SEMINARIANS AS WELL. HERE is the wisdom to bringing in men from other areas: when you attend a youth oriented function in the diocese, you see these seminarians be very interactive and serve as a beautiful role model to these young boys and girls. The children see that the seminarians love GOD, love JESUS, and they see how the HOLY SPIRIT is working in their life. THIS is a powerful witness…

You are not a credible witness. YOU JUST don’t really know. i WONDER WHY you are so very interested still in this diocese, if you don’t live here. IT seems like you have an axe to grind. If you have moved back, i apologize for my presumption.
You pretty much stand alone in your sentiment.

Lisa

 

[frommi]

Frommi, you are far removed from this area, the last I remember you lived several hundred miles from here. So, unless you are completely immersed in the faith life in this diocese, I would guess that it would be quite difficult for your to accurately assess, in any concrete way, what is going on precisely here. I take it that you have not attended any seminarian benefit dinners, charity balls (they just raised $675k for schools, not conveniently either), March for Life in Washington, deacon, nun/sister , and priest ordinations, Evangelization round table meetings with the Bishop, etc etc. Your direct neighbor (ie in Saginaw, Bay City and elsewhere) has not directly lost their job, their health care (of which Bishop pushed hard for a free health care clinic). I take it that you have second hand information at the best, and an agenda at the worst.

AND, if for one small second ,you took the time,to get to know how it was that a specific seminarian came into this diocese, if you got to know them, or attended any ordinations, and PRAYED for them, your mind and your heart would opened. The Mud would be removed from your eyes, but you first must really really want it. YES< the HOLY SPIRIT DID CONVENIENTLY, IN WISDOM, BRING 3 COLUMBIANS TO THIS DIOCESE, AND LOCAL SEMINARIANS AS WELL. HERE is the wisdom to bringing in men from other areas: when you attend a youth oriented function in the diocese, you see these seminarians be very interactive and serve as a beautiful role model to these young boys and girls. The children see that the seminarians love GOD, love JESUS, and they see how the HOLY SPIRIT is working in their life. THIS is a powerful witness…

You are not a credible witness. YOU JUST don’t really know. i WONDER WHY you are so very interested still in this diocese, if you don’t live here. IT seems like you have an axe to grind. If you have moved back, i apologize for my presumption.
You pretty much stand alone in your sentiment.

Lisa

Wow…what sentiment do I ‘stand alone’ in? All I have consistently said is that the diocese has benefited from all 5 of its bishops…and its crazy to watch people hide behind flowery language about the holy spirit as a mask for nauseating episcopal cheerleading.

 

[lrs]

Frommi, you said above, “As far as the holy spirit goes…I don’t know what spirit seems to conveniently move the hearts of men to leave Colombia and go to Saginaw, Michigan…but look around you, Bishop Carlson was no more successful in cultivating local vocations to the priesthood than Bishop Ken.”

This is what you stand alone on, this statement.

Peace, Lisa

 

[Lepanto]

What would be better? For the 20 or so seminarians that the diocese now has to pack their bags and follow Bishop Carlson to St. Louis? Is this what some people in the Diocese of Saginaw want?

 

[lrs]

What would be better? For the 20 or so seminarians that the diocese now has to pack their bags and follow Bishop Carlson to St. Louis? Is this what some people in the Diocese of Saginaw want?

Dear Lepanto,
A brilliant statement, a great summary, you wisely summed it up right here. Shall we foolishly ask those seminarians to leave, the seminarians that some people judged as not being sent here by the gift of the Holy Spirit, Divine Providence and Grace.
Very Good!

 

[frommi]

Dear Lepanto,
A brilliant statement, a great summary, you wisely summed it up right here. Shall we foolishly ask those seminarians to leave, the seminarians that some people judged as not being sent here by the gift of the Holy Spirit, Divine Providence and Grace.
Very Good!

I guess then Saginaw would know how Sioux Falls felt when seminarians followed the bishop 4 years ago

 

[lrs]

How many followed Frommi??, 3-4.
Bishop Carlson made a very wise decision to bring a few seminarians with him. You have to be able to visualize hope. Hope that we will have men entering the priesthood, hope that there is a viable deaconate program that consistently calls men forward, hope in Sister communities that attract young women to commit their life to serving the poor, a lay ministry program that calls the laity forward. You must Evangelize as well, bringing a few seminarians with him opened the doors in mystical ways for the Holy Spirit to move through this diocese that you and I can not comprehend. It jump started the increase in vocations, all of us are called.

A main focus of Bishop Untener was “We are the Church”, but that should not limit our influence from the broader church, our identity with Rome. We should be able to go to any Catholic Church in the world and worship the same way. It is a broadened scope, a broadened view, identifying with other Catholics around the world, connecting as THE BODY OF CHRIST, one community, reaching out in love and care, recognizing the succession of Peter. We are connected through the Eucharist. THIS IS A POWERFUL WITNESS

Have a good day.

 

[frommi]

How many followed Frommi??, 3-4.
Bishop Carlson made a very wise decision to bring a few seminarians with him. You have to be able to visualize hope. Hope that we will have men entering the priesthood, hope that there is a viable deaconate program that consistently calls men forward, hope in Sister communities that attract young women to commit their life to serving the poor, a lay ministry program that calls the laity forward. You must Evangelize as well, bringing a few seminarians with him opened the doors in mystical ways for the Holy Spirit to move through this diocese that you and I can not comprehend. It jump started the increase in vocations, all of us are called.

A main focus of Bishop Untener was “We are the Church”, but that should not limit our influence from the broader church, our identity with Rome. We should be able to go to any Catholic Church in the world and worship the same way. It is a broadened scope, a broadened view, identifying with other Catholics around the world, connecting as THE BODY OF CHRIST, one community, reaching out in love and care, recognizing the succession of Peter. We are connected through the Eucharist. THIS IS A POWERFUL WITNESS

Have a good day.

There you go again…with a sort of veiled accusation about lack of unity with Rome…which is just plain untrue.

I’m also rather impressed that somehow we’ve found a ‘recipe’ for making the Holy Spirit work…which sort of goes against a lot of the theology I know of the spirit.

For the last time, I fail to see why one can’t be grateful for any bishop’s strengths and gently critical of his faults.

 

[lrs]

Jesus sent a helper, a guide, The Holy Spirit.

What do you know about Charisms?

 

[spanky]

Sorry to interrupt this exchange but check out the new pastoral assigments:

dioceseofsaginaw.blogspot.com/2009/05/pastoral-assignments-announced.html%between%

Lots of shuffling. Looks like a couple priests are furthering their studies in Rome. STA’s losing Fr. Caffaro after only one year . I was hoping he’d be able to stay another couple years…

Also, this is also pretty cool: saginaw.org/bishop/transition/

The diocese has expanded their web communications. They’re on twitter (which doesn’t really mean that much to me - i still can’t figure out facebook) and they’re building a database of those wishing to receive an email notice when the next Bishop is announced.

 

[Karl_M]

Spanky,

Thank you so much for returning this thread to its original intention-talking about the parish re-assingments (if you go back far enough, you’ll see who the regretful OP is).

At any rate, they mention that Thai Nguyen is going to help out at St. Francis Home, so I wonder what happened to Fr. Paul Grala SOLT, unless he has other duties as well that I’m not aware of. Although I do wonder why if he (Thai) is going to be the chaplain at St. Mary’s Hospital, why isn’t he living at the hospital or at the cathedral rectory across the street?

As for the quick reassingments of new priests, long gone are the days where a new priest got five or ten years as an associate pastor before being given the responsibility of a full parish (or more likely, two or three parishes).

 

[frommi]

For what its worth…there appears to be strong buzz that the new bishop of Saginaw will be named Tuesday.

 

[piejesu]

Additional News…

It was officially confirmed at this Sunday’s masses that the Sisters of Mercy are indeed coming to the Cathedral Parish Community, to participate in many aspects of the work of this local church. I for one am very glad to see this project going forward.