News from Diocese of Saginaw, MI

[MFM]

You know what drives me mad?

The constant thesis put forth in these forums that Saginaw was in need of being ‘turned around’.

It’s simply not true.

In terms of vocations to the priesthood, the diocese was most definitely in need of being “turned around”, and Bishop Carlson has done just that.

 

[frommi]

In terms of vocations to the priesthood, the diocese was most definitely in need of being “turned around”, and Bishop Carlson has done just that.

Sure…he ordained two men he ‘inherited’ this year…and somehow after only two years in the diocese he has 5 men who are 3 years into their formation…

While I think it’s wonderful that there are more men who wish to be priests in Saginaw…I do wonder exactly where we’ve been poaching seminarians from…considering some of the men who he is placing in formation have been turned down for formation by one or two dioceses in the first place.

 

[MICATH]

Those who ARE physically capable of kneeling may kneel on the floor. That has also been done for millenia, and it’s not that big of a deal.

I am physically capable of kneeling and have knelt in both of those parishes built on a slant. There is a danger of loosing your front teeth on the back of the pew in front of you as you are kneeling downhill without enough room for your behind in between the bench your sitting on and the bench in front of you. It just doesn’t work.

 

[Brendan]

I am physically capable of kneeling and have knelt in both of those parishes built on a slant. There is a danger of loosing your front teeth on the back of the pew in front of you as you are kneeling downhill without enough room for your behind in between the bench your sitting on and the bench in front of you. It just doesn’t work.

Do you want to meet there for Mass some Sunday?. And we can look at it together.

I’ve got no problems with driving up.

 

[MICATH]

After all…how many kneelers are present in St Peters?

There is another thread going under Liturgy and Sacraments about holding hands and kneeling… there is some debate there about the kneelers in St. Peters. The answer seems to be that the permanent seating does have kneelers, the temporary seating may or may not.

And, the GIRM does allow for people to not kneel for lack of space or some ‘other good reason’…which pretty much does leave this up to the diocesean bishop to decide what ‘another good reason’ is.

I believe I read in the parish bulletin some time back at Holy Spirit that the pastor asked to be excused from the kneeler requirement because of many of the discussed reasons hear. I believe the bishop said no…

 

[frommi]

There is another thread going under Liturgy and Sacraments about holding hands and kneeling… there is some debate there about the kneelers in St. Peters. The answer seems to be that the permanent seating does have kneelers, the temporary seating may or may not.

I believe I read in the parish bulletin some time back at Holy Spirit that the pastor asked to be excused from the kneeler requirement because of many of the discussed reasons hear. I believe the bishop said no…

That’s interesting because the pastor at a parish in Bay City asked for an exception and the bishop said yes. Mostly because if you added kneelers you would lose space for seating overall.

 

[JDeL]

Hello all in Saginaw,

I was just at a parish in Frankenmuth this past weekend … and it was the most disturbing Mass I have ever attended.

These are just the beginning of the ungodly things I witnessed:

1. It took my 5 minutes to find the tabernacle, more or less in a closet.
2. No crucifix. Very strange seated statue outside.
3. Priest sat with the congregation in the first row of pews.
4. Priest gave a summary of the reading before they were proclaimed.
5. No Gloria on a Sunday Mass, penitential rites severly shortened.
6. Priest ad libbed most of the prayers of the Mass, saying whatever he felt like saying. Most of the prayers appeared to be from a binder.
7. Music accompaniment to the prayers of the faithful.
8. Priest consecrated a loaf of bread(literally) in a salad bowl.
9. This invalid matter was dropped multiple times in distribution, and even fell out of priests’ hands as he held it up before giving to the communicant
10. Homily advocated female priests.
11. Everyone stood during the Eucharistic Prayer and consecration.
12. Gospel was not read, but it was ad libbed by the priest into a femanist-agenda version.

Is this the rule for the Saginaw diocese?? I will be in the area next weekend also for a baseball tournament. Does anyone know if there is a place to find a Mass that is at least valid and somewhat close to GIRM guideline in the Frankenmuth area?

I offered some time in front of the Blessed Sacrament for this blatant disobedience. Penance was a necessity.

Please pray for this parish and Diocese of Saginaw.

JD

 

[8640]

Sure…he ordained two men he ‘inherited’ this year…and somehow after only two years in the diocese he has 5 men who are 3 years into their formation…

While I think it’s wonderful that there are more men who wish to be priests in Saginaw…I do wonder exactly where we’ve been poaching seminarians from…considering some of the men who he is placing in formation have been turned down for formation by one or two dioceses in the first place.

Well Frommi, there you go again, shootin your mouth off when you don’t have a clue.

For one, no one “poaches” seminarians. They come on their own free will.

I know the 5 men you are speaking of. One came with him from the Diocese of Sioux Falls, he had already been in the seminary. Another had already obtained his Masters Degree in Theology before entering into the seminary, thus, less time needed, obviously. Another was turned down by two dioceses it is true, but not because of any problem that would inhibit ministry, he is simply an older man and it is not unheard of for a diocese to ordain older men. Lets see, that leaves us with the man who came from another country and found a sponsoring diocese here in Saginaw after a few years of searching. He had already been in Seminary so someone thought he was ok. I know how odd it is for men to come to America from other countries to be priests. And the last also was in seminary yet looking for a diocese.

How dare you call into question the quality of these fine men. You do not know them, you have not met them, and to be honest these types of half-cocked not so veiled doubts about their worthiness to be priests calls into question your own ability to make a judgement about anything. Do you form all your opinions like this? I certainly hope not.

 

[frommi]

Well Frommi, there you go again, shootin your mouth off when you don’t have a clue.

For one, no one “poaches” seminarians. They come on their own free will.

I know the 5 men you are speaking of. One came with him from the Diocese of Sioux Falls, he had already been in the seminary. Another had already obtained his Masters Degree in Theology before entering into the seminary, thus, less time needed, obviously. Another was turned down by two dioceses it is true, but not because of any problem that would inhibit ministry, he is simply an older man and it is not unheard of for a diocese to ordain older men. Lets see, that leaves us with the man who came from another country and found a sponsoring diocese here in Saginaw after a few years of searching. He had already been in Seminary so someone thought he was ok. I know how odd it is for men to come to America from other countries to be priests. And the last also was in seminary yet looking for a diocese.

How dare you call into question the quality of these fine men. You do not know them, you have not met them, and to be honest these types of half-cocked not so veiled doubts about their worthiness to be priests calls into question your own ability to make a judgement about anything. Do you form all your opinions like this? I certainly hope not.

I’m not questioning anyone’s individual worthiness…I’m questioning the methods of the vocation director of the Diocese of Saginaw (who happens to also execute the role of Bishop).

Did Sioux Falls stop needing priests suddenly when he was transferred?

Do they not need priests in other countries (where the ration of priests/catholics is worse than here)?

 

[Karl_M]

Hello all in Saginaw,

I was just at a parish in Frankenmuth this past weekend … and it was the most disturbing Mass I have ever attended.

These are just the beginning of the ungodly things I witnessed:

1. It took my 5 minutes to find the tabernacle, more or less in a closet.
2. No crucifix. Very strange seated statue outside.
3. Priest sat with the congregation in the first row of pews.
4. Priest gave a summary of the reading before they were proclaimed.
5. No Gloria on a Sunday Mass, penitential rites severly shortened.
6. Priest ad libbed most of the prayers of the Mass, saying whatever he felt like saying. Most of the prayers appeared to be from a binder.
7. Music accompaniment to the prayers of the faithful.
8. Priest consecrated a loaf of bread(literally) in a salad bowl.
9. This invalid matter was dropped multiple times in distribution, and even fell out of priests’ hands as he held it up before giving to the communicant
10. Homily advocated female priests.
11. Everyone stood during the Eucharistic Prayer and consecration.
12. Gospel was not read, but it was ad libbed by the priest into a femanist-agenda version.

Is this the rule for the Saginaw diocese?? I will be in the area next weekend also for a baseball tournament. Does anyone know if there is a place to find a Mass that is at least valid and somewhat close to GIRM guideline in the Frankenmuth area?

I offered some time in front of the Blessed Sacrament for this blatant disobedience. Penance was a necessity.

Please pray for this parish and Diocese of Saginaw.

JD

You were surprised by this? In this neck of the woods, this would have been a good day. At least you didn’t the priest in the City of Saginaw says “Yahweh” to avoid the word “Father,” continually repeats “God” or “Jesus,” to avoid the “he” pronoun or replaces all of the “he/his” with “she/her.”

IMHO, I like the priest giving a summary of the readings. And as far as I know, there’s nothing technically wrong with a loaf of bread (as long as it’s valid matter), not too sure about the salad bowl. I don’t see anything wrong with the prayers being in a binder, but it does look tacky. Standing is the norm, the old, old Bishop saw to that back in the 70’s.

And around here, you are very, very lucky if you get the Gloria, Profession of Faith, or the part in the middle of the Lord’s Prayer.

That priest recently went on a rant about how horrible the new old Mass is. He went on and on about how wonderful the new Mass is and how the Pope allowing people to choose is “the very anthesis of what we were called to do fifty years ago.” He compared it to “ripping up newly laid carpeting to lay down the old.” I find that to be an ironic statement-how many beautiful churches did they destroy (I don’t mean new buildings) to renovate them and throw the old stuff out?

 

[MICATH]

Hello all in Saginaw,

I was just at a parish in Frankenmuth this past weekend … and it was the most disturbing Mass I have ever attended.

These are just the beginning of the ungodly things I witnessed:

1. It took my 5 minutes to find the tabernacle, more or less in a closet.
2. No crucifix. Very strange seated statue outside.
3. Priest sat with the congregation in the first row of pews.
4. Priest gave a summary of the reading before they were proclaimed.
5. No Gloria on a Sunday Mass, penitential rites severly shortened.
6. Priest ad libbed most of the prayers of the Mass, saying whatever he felt like saying. Most of the prayers appeared to be from a binder.
7. Music accompaniment to the prayers of the faithful.
8. Priest consecrated a loaf of bread(literally) in a salad bowl.
9. This invalid matter was dropped multiple times in distribution, and even fell out of priests’ hands as he held it up before giving to the communicant
10. Homily advocated female priests.
11. Everyone stood during the Eucharistic Prayer and consecration.
12. Gospel was not read, but it was ad libbed by the priest into a femanist-agenda version.

Is this the rule for the Saginaw diocese?? I will be in the area next weekend also for a baseball tournament. Does anyone know if there is a place to find a Mass that is at least valid and somewhat close to GIRM guideline in the Frankenmuth area?

I offered some time in front of the Blessed Sacrament for this blatant disobedience. Penance was a necessity.

Please pray for this parish and Diocese of Saginaw.

JD

The list above was pretty typical a while back, but most parishes have been working on bringing things back in line over the past year.

If you’re staying in Saginaw, St. Thomas Aquinas has done a good job of getting things back in line and offers an 8:30 a.m. Mass that should get you to your ball games in time. They’ve added back the Gloria, but the priest still sits in the front row, they still use the binder for the prayers, still standing instead of kneeling, etc., but time is working out most of the kinks. The cathedral has a new rector who is also the director of the office of liturgy for the diocese, so I would assume he is doing things by the book as well.

A lot of parishes still have some work to do to get things in line, but they have also made some great progress. Frankenmuth sounds like it might be a hold out.

Good luck in the baseball tournament!

 

[MICATH]

And somewhat back on the topic of news from the Diocese of Saginaw, Bishop Carlson made an new appointment in the last couple of weeks, Father Paul Grala, SOLT is appointed temporary administrator of St. Michael Parish in Port Austin.

Does any one know anything about this appointment? I was wondering two things, first, why was he assigned temporary administrator rather than pastor and secondly, what does anyone know about the SOLT order that he is a part of? thanks.

 

[frommi]

The list above was pretty typical a while back, but most parishes have been working on bringing things back in line over the past year.

If you’re staying in Saginaw, St. Thomas Aquinas has done a good job of getting things back in line and offers an 8:30 a.m. Mass that should get you to your ball games in time. They’ve added back the Gloria, but the priest still sits in the front row, they still use the binder for the prayers, still standing instead of kneeling, etc., but time is working out most of the kinks. The cathedral has a new rector who is also the director of the office of liturgy for the diocese, so I would assume he is doing things by the book as well.

A lot of parishes still have some work to do to get things in line, but they have also made some great progress. Frankenmuth sounds like it might be a hold out.

Good luck in the baseball tournament!

Just for the record…last time I checked having prayers in a ceremonial binder isn’t against any rules…a lot of celebrants prefer them because they can keep everything in one ‘order’…opening prayer…eucharistic prayer for the day, etc.

 

[frommi]

And somewhat back on the topic of news from the Diocese of Saginaw, Bishop Carlson made an new appointment in the last couple of weeks, Father Paul Grala, SOLT is appointed temporary administrator of St. Michael Parish in Port Austin.

Does any one know anything about this appointment? I was wondering two things, first, why was he assigned temporary administrator rather than pastor and secondly, what does anyone know about the SOLT order that he is a part of? thanks.

If he’s from outside the diocese (which it sounds like he is), he can’t be appointed as a pastor because he isn’t incardinated (I think).

 

[MFM]

Does any one know anything about this appointment? I was wondering two things, first, why was he assigned temporary administrator rather than pastor and secondly, what does anyone know about the SOLT order that he is a part of? thanks.

SOLT=Society of Our Lady of the Most Holy Trinity
Father Corapi of EWTN fame belongs to the SOLT. It is based in Texas and has been around since 1958. SOLT has a pretty solid reputation. I would be optimistic.

 

[Brendan]

Another was turned down by two dioceses it is true, but not because of any problem that would inhibit ministry, he is simply an older man and it is not unheard of for a diocese to ordain older men. .

I know the man, he’s from my parish.

Cardinal Maida did not wish to accept an older vocation, but Bishop Carlson did. I also know that if he did not respect +Carlson’s orthodoxy, he never would have applied to the Diocese of Saginaw.

 

[aspawloski4th]

And somewhat back on the topic of news from the Diocese of Saginaw, Bishop Carlson made an new appointment in the last couple of weeks, Father Paul Grala, SOLT is appointed temporary administrator of St. Michael Parish in Port Austin.

Does any one know anything about this appointment? I was wondering two things, first, why was he assigned temporary administrator rather than pastor and secondly, what does anyone know about the SOLT order that he is a part of? thanks.

I know fr paul grala personally he came from my home parrish st james in grand rapids, I have know him for 25 years my wife has known him for 30+ years. you are getting an excellent priest. he is very inline with the vatican, very moral, very conservative, and very energetic. anyone reading this who goes to that parish please tell him janet (gedris) and steve pawloski say hi, nad congrats!

 

[Orionthehunter]

Why now at this point in history this statement issued on Primacy of the Catholic Church. A very calculated move on his part, he understands fully the power of the position he holds. What damage has been done.
Peace, lisa

Dear 8640:
I have not read the document that Pope Benedict was speaking of. I have only read news reports.
God Bless,
Lisa

Lisa, prudence would dictate reading the actual source before accusing your Pope of doing harm.

When I was confronted by some of my non-Catholic Christian friends, I read the document, highlighted specific points that refuted what they claimed were in the document and sent it to them. The response was universal- Dang Media.

Lisa, you have to remember that the secular media reflects in large part a secular attitude that is opposed to what the Church teaches. To have them distort and take out of context should be no surprise. What is surprising is that a Catholic would put more credence in the media than the Pope.

 

[Lepanto]

That’s unfortunate that those parishes were remodeled in such a way. The blame lies on those who designed and approved those plans, since kneeling during the consecration was always mandated by the GIRM. These parishes are now paying for it. Better to take positive steps to fix the errors of the past, then to allow them to persist (and perhaps propagate).

The trendy iconoclastic liturgists who yanked out the kneelers from those churches that originally had them should be forced to pay for replacement kneelers.

 

[Lepanto]

…some of the men who he is placing in formation have been turned down for formation by one or two dioceses in the first place.

On what do you base this claim?

How many of them were originally “turned down for formation” by Bishop Untener but then returned under Bishop Carlson?

(And, if any of these men supposedly “turned down for formation” by other dioceses were turned down for reasons covered by Michael S. Rose’s book “Goodbye Good Men” – then Saginaw is very blessed to have them!)