NFP is supposed to be good for marriage?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Anniebananny
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
I would love it if my husband could understand my chart. I think it looks like an intimidating amount of data.

After seeing how long you abstained, and one or two of the others, I may have to show him this thread!
The charting is do at first, but I think the interpretation is fairly easy.

We learned the SymtoThermalMethod in about 1989. We still use the CCL rules from that time; I hear they have changed but we are successful with these.

I think if it’s reduced to facts and interpretation of the facts then one person isn’t telling the other no. The facts are saying no.
 
The charting is do at first, but I think the interpretation is fairly easy.

We learned the SymtoThermalMethod in about 1989. We still use the CCL rules from that time; I hear they have changed but we are successful with these.

I think if it’s reduced to facts and interpretation of the facts then one person isn’t telling the other no. The facts are saying no.
We learned SymtoThermal in 1999 and my Husband got a hold of a new manual a while ago and hated it. He thought it was very short information.

For us, he takes my temp as I’m still 3/4 asleep in the morning and does all the record keeping and interpreting. It really does help not having to be the one to to say “No honey not tonight”.
 
We learned SymtoThermal in 1999 and my Husband got a hold of a new manual a while ago and hated it. He thought it was very short information.

For us, he takes my temp as I’m still 3/4 asleep in the morning and does all the record keeping and interpreting. It really does help not having to be the one to to say “No honey not tonight”.
My wife takes her temp and records it and the observations. I do the interpretation. I don’t coach her with what temp we need on any particular day. No bias or pressure on her. That way, the record keeping (her) is separate from the decisions (me).
 
PaulinVA, THANK YOU! :bounce:

You’ve given me the last key in our NFP journey. My husband is (mostly) happy to follow it, but I always feel terrible having to say no to him. He says it’s no problem, and he doesn’t feel rejected, but it still feels that way to me (and I often get angry because of it).

I’ll set up a chart for him and explain the rules (he knows most of it anyway), and it can be his decision.

I hope this will make him more confident of things too, because he keeps mentioning a vasectomy, although he still hasn’t done anything about it. He’s less and less likely to get one.

Another thing that he is worried about is the likelihood that I might show fertile signs when we have planned a special night. This way we can be pretty sure when things can happen.
 
It’s not a stupid question. The only way you can understand other people’s feelings is by asking them to explain.

There are two ways to explain it: in terms of how men feel, and in terms of why they feel that way. To answer the first way, well, PaulinVA gave the only answer there really is. It’s all about hormones, and if you don’t have those hormones, you can never know what it feels like to someone who does.

For the second kind of answer (the ‘why’) it is all about survival. In many species, the male has a powerful impulse to mate with as many females as possible. Males will compete with each other, even fight to the death, in order to win the right to mate. This is nature’s mechanism for ensuring the survival of the species - the male who is strongest, fastest, etc. gets to pass on his genetic material to the next generation.

Human males also have the powerful impulse to mate with as many females as possible. Of course they don’t think about it in those terms. When a guy sees a good-looking woman in a bikini, he doesn’t think “Gosh I need to pass on my DNA”. All he knows is that he feels sexually aroused when he sees her. This is why men find it so difficult to stop looking at an attractive woman, especially if her clothes are revealing. By the simple fact of seeing her, that drive to reproduce has taken over and he is already in the first stages of arousal.

Of course if the man is a Christian (or has had a good upbringing) he knows that he needs to restrain his biological impulses and so forth. I’m not trying to reduce everything to biology. But you said you wanted to know why it is so hard for men to abstain, so there you go 🙂
There is a big difference between a male. A human male is made in the in the image of God and has superior intellect. A man is supposed to look at women as persons in their own right and respect them. So it is insulting to men to say that they are led by their hormones and also a cop out for some men. Women have “urges” too but historically, at least in the Western world, a “good” woman would not not think of such things let alone talk about it.

Further, a woman with abundant house work and exhausted from taking care of children, would not have the urge to do anything but sleep/rest.
 
My husband just asks when he thinks it is OK based on our set intentions.

He may have more “urges” but I have to say he NEVER has used them to cajole me, ever.

I think he is a saint, really. If saints can be disorganized with dark senses of humor!

Once we were abstinent a year b/c of confusing signs- he was a trooper.
Wiped a lot of purgatory off!
You have a great, loving husband.
 
I believe that men have a harder time abstaining b/c of hormones. There was another time my husband and I abstained for awhile, and that was after the birth of our second child, when things took a longer than expected time to heal and return to normal (a couple months). The very last thing on my mind was sex, but he became very difficult to live with. He is a patient and understanding man about a lot of things, but for some reason, he does not have nearly as much patience when it comes to abstinence. I know he can’t help it, but sometimes it is so frustrating. I want to be like, “Get ahold of yourself!”
It’s not a stupid question. The only way you can understand other people’s feelings is by asking them to explain.

There are two ways to explain it: in terms of how men feel, and in terms of why they feel that way. To answer the first way, well, PaulinVA gave the only answer there really is. It’s all about hormones, and if you don’t have those hormones, you can never know what it feels like to someone who does.

For the second kind of answer (the ‘why’) it is all about survival. In many species, the male has a powerful impulse to mate with as many females as possible. Males will compete with each other, even fight to the death, in order to win the right to mate. This is nature’s mechanism for ensuring the survival of the species - the male who is strongest, fastest, etc. gets to pass on his genetic material to the next generation.

Human males also have the powerful impulse to mate with as many females as possible. Of course they don’t think about it in those terms. When a guy sees a good-looking woman in a bikini, he doesn’t think “Gosh I need to pass on my DNA”. All he knows is that he feels sexually aroused when he sees her. This is why men find it so difficult to stop looking at an attractive woman, especially if her clothes are revealing. By the simple fact of seeing her, that drive to reproduce has taken over and he is already in the first stages of arousal.

Of course if the man is a Christian (or has had a good upbringing) he knows that he needs to restrain his biological impulses and so forth. I’m not trying to reduce everything to biology. But you said you wanted to know why it is so hard for men to abstain, so there you go 🙂
 
I believe that men have a harder time abstaining b/c of hormones. There was another time my husband and I abstained for awhile, and that was after the birth of our second child, when things took a longer than expected time to heal and return to normal (a couple months). The very last thing on my mind was sex, but he became very difficult to live with. He is a patient and understanding man about a lot of things, but for some reason, he does not have nearly as much patience when it comes to abstinence. I know he can’t help it, but sometimes it is so frustrating. I want to be like, “Get ahold of yourself!”
Maybe you’re to young, but there was an episode in the original Star Trek where Spock was basically overcome by mating hormones and did a lot of bizarre things, including stealing the Enterprise to go to vulcan. Wikipedia explains it thusly:

Kirk orders him to report to Sickbay. Dr. McCoy discovers Spock’s blood chemistry is extremely active and has the presence of unknown hormones. If the condition persists, then Spock will die in eight days. Spock does not wish to discuss what is currently affecting him, but Kirk demands an explanation. Seemingly embarrassed, Spock informs Kirk that his condition is called Pon farr, a syndrome that all Vulcan males painfully endure periodically throughout their adult life.[note 1] During this time, they must mate or die. He cites precedents in nature, such as Earth salmon, which “must return to that one stream where they were born, to spawn…or die trying.”

That is what testosterone does to us.
 
A man is supposed to look at women as persons in their own right and respect them. So it is insulting to men to say that they are led by their hormones and also a cop out for some men.
Did you actually read my post? The whole thing? I specifically said that I was not trying to reduce everything to biology, and I pointed out that men have a duty to rise above mere impulses.

Someone asked a question about why men find it difficult to abstain, and I was trying to address that “why”. That was the focus of my answer, hence I did not go into detail on the moral aspects of it.
 
Did you actually read my post? The whole thing? I specifically said that I was not trying to reduce everything to biology, and I pointed out that men have a duty to rise above mere impulses.

Someone asked a question about why men find it difficult to abstain, and I was trying to address that “why”. That was the focus of my answer, hence I did not go into detail on the moral aspects of it.
I was not referring to just the moral aspect but also to the ability of a man to determine not to be led by his urges.
 
This is too funny. If it was do or die, I guess I could understand the urgency!
Maybe you’re to young, but there was an episode in the original Star Trek where Spock was basically overcome by mating hormones and did a lot of bizarre things, including stealing the Enterprise to go to vulcan. Wikipedia explains it thusly:

Kirk orders him to report to Sickbay. Dr. McCoy discovers Spock’s blood chemistry is extremely active and has the presence of unknown hormones. If the condition persists, then Spock will die in eight days. Spock does not wish to discuss what is currently affecting him, but Kirk demands an explanation. Seemingly embarrassed, Spock informs Kirk that his condition is called Pon farr, a syndrome that all Vulcan males painfully endure periodically throughout their adult life.[note 1] During this time, they must mate or die. He cites precedents in nature, such as Earth salmon, which “must return to that one stream where they were born, to spawn…or die trying.”

That is what testosterone does to us.
 
I was not referring to just the moral aspect but also to the ability of a man to determine not to be led by his urges.
That is already implied by indicating the moral aspect, which I did touch on in my original post. Obviously people can’t have a moral obligation to do something which they are unable to do.
 
That is already implied by indicating the moral aspect, which I did touch on in my original post. Obviously people can’t have a moral obligation to do something which they are unable to do.
The point is that they are able to.
 
Abstinence can be a blessing in a marriage.
Not to play devil’s advocate here, but I really don’t understand how abstinence can ever be a blessing in a marriage. I don’t know how anyone can ever be like “oh yeah, my husband and I are not having sex, but ya know, it’s a great thing!” 🤷
 
Way to kick a hornet’s nest! 🙂

It certainly isn’t feeling like a blessing at the moment. I’m hoping our perseverance pays off, and really hoping it does at some point before he leaves in January.
Not to play devil’s advocate here, but I really don’t understand how abstinence can ever be a blessing in a marriage. I don’t know how anyone can ever be like “oh yeah, my husband and I are not having sex, but ya know, it’s a great thing!” 🤷
 
Way to kick a hornet’s nest! 🙂

It certainly isn’t feeling like a blessing at the moment. I’m hoping our perseverance pays off, and really hoping it does at some point before he leaves in January.
Perhaps abstaining in a marriage is something that needs to be done for whatever reason, for a greater good of some sort. But to say that it’s a “blessing??” :confused:

It’s definitely not a blessing. It’s a difficult thing that has the potential to create problems, though it may be something that needs to be done.

Being able to make love to your spouse and give yourself to them, now THAT is the blessing.
 
Not to play devil’s advocate here, but I really don’t understand how abstinence can ever be a blessing in a marriage. I don’t know how anyone can ever be like “oh yeah, my husband and I are not having sex, but ya know, it’s a great thing!” 🤷
Debora123 I posted this earlier in this thread-

*"Anniebananny, If you or your husband have doubts about NFP then I would quote from Pope John Paul II’s amazing work ‘Love And Responsibilty’.

Firstly he understood your problem. He wrote-
"Marital continence is so much more difficult than continence outside marriage because the spouses grow accustomed to intercourse, as befits the state which they have both consiously chosen."

The key to NFP and morality-
"When the idea that ‘I may become a father’/‘I may become a mother’ is totally rejected in the mind and will of husband and wife nothing is left of the marital relationship, objectively speaking, except mere sexual enjoyment. One person becomes an object of use for another person, which is incompatibile with the personalistic norm." "Human morality cannot be grounded in utility alone"

The title to your post asked if NFP is good for a marriage-
"the love of man and woman loses nothing as a result of temporary abstention from erotic experiences, but on the contrary gains: the personal union takes deeper root, grounded as it is above all in affirmation of the value of the person and not just in sexual attachment." "*

Temporary abstinence does in fact result in a deeper personal union between a couple and ***it could only be this way ***because as JPII writes above, one person being an object of use for another is incompatible with the personalistic norm and human morality cannot possibly be grounded in utility alone.

No-one is saying it is a great thing to abstain from sex but that sex should, indeed must, take place under condtions appropriate to human morality. Anything outside of this is an aberration in terms of morality. When you truly understand this and JPII’s last quote above it is easy to see abstinence is indeed a blessing.
 
Debora123 I posted this earlier in this thread-

*"*Anniebananny, If you or your husband have doubts about NFP then I would quote from Pope John Paul II’s amazing work ‘Love And Responsibilty’.

Firstly he understood your problem. He wrote-
"Marital continence is so much more difficult than continence outside marriage because the spouses grow accustomed to intercourse, as befits the state which they have both consiously chosen."

The key to NFP and morality-
"When the idea that ‘I may become a father’/‘I may become a mother’ is totally rejected in the mind and will of husband and wife nothing is left of the marital relationship, objectively speaking, except mere sexual enjoyment. One person becomes an object of use for another person, which is incompatibile with the personalistic norm." "Human morality cannot be grounded in utility alone"

The title to your post asked if NFP is good for a marriage-
"the love of man and woman loses nothing as a result of temporary abstention from erotic experiences, but on the contrary gains: the personal union takes deeper root, grounded as it is above all in affirmation of the value of the person and not just in sexual attachment." "

Temporary abstinence does in fact result in a deeper personal union between a couple and ***it could only be this way ***because as JPII writes above, one person being an object of use for another is incompatible with the personalistic norm and human morality cannot possibly be grounded in utility alone.

No-one is saying it is a great thing to abstain from sex but that sex should, indeed must, take place under condtions appropriate to human morality. Anything outside of this is an aberration in terms of morality. When you truly understand this and JPII’s last quote above it is easy to see abstinence is indeed a blessing.
I don’t agree with this notion at all, no offense. We all have to abstain in our marriages at times… whether it is because of using NFP, or because a spouse is ill, or out of town, or tired, etc etc… the list goes on.

Of course I know that if something happened to me, my husband would be there no matter what. I know that regardless of whether we ever end up having to abstain for a long period of time or not. And I know that we don’t see each other as “sex objects” just because we are married and have sex.

Like I said, I see abstinence in marriage as being something that may be necessary sometimes, but I definitely wouldn’t call it a blessing.

And also, as for this:

“the love of man and woman loses nothing as a result of temporary abstention from erotic experiences, but on the contrary gains: the personal union takes deeper root, grounded as it is above all in affirmation of the value of the person and not just in sexual attachment.”

…A lot of good Catholic couples date for years before they get married, and abstain completely during that time. This “deeper root” and “affirmation of the value of the person and not just in sexual attachment” …is something that should already be established, before you even marry the person.
 
I think if the lack of physical intimacy becomes an issue in a marriage – it is a diversion or byproduct, not the cause.

The reality of it is, many people have a distorted view on physical intimacy that leads to a warped view on periodic abstinence. Giving yourself to your spouse is so much more than the marital embrace –

Not always easy – but certainly a blessing… Just like kids 🙂
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top