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Phemie
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Diocese of Lincoln, IIRC.I knew there was at least one diocese in the US but I couldn’t remember which one.
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HCF
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Yes - besides encouragement it can also be seen as a form of training.
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SunnaB16
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“FYI”: hopefully, i know more about my own health problems than you or the other two know.
“Thus”: why you butted in is a mystery.
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SunnaB16
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Off topic, but: just to clear it up for you, and for anyone else:Slow down here. I’m not giving you or anyone medical advice. I did not know that you’re referring to a medical condition. That’s not something that you can deal with on a forum. That’s something that you take to a professional.
Thank you very much. Your kindness is humbling.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
i
ve been suffering from those two afflictions from "the year dot". Theyve more or less wrecked my whole life. “Offer it up” is all you CAN do. (Professional help is hit and miss.)Add a melancholic temperament; and there`s no need to explain any more… to you, at least.
So: the abuses hit me harder than they did most others.
Anyway:
PAX!..to both of us, i hope…
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otjm
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Before the law changed, or before Rome said the law said what the law said? Once the law was changed, that was all that was necessary. It was the subsequent fuss by those who didn’t want altar girls that cause the question to be posed to Rome - who answered in a longer version of Pilate’s comment - “what is written, is written…”.
Father Fessio’s comment is neither here nor there as to the legality of the issue. I do agree with his general premise (read that, “strongly”). On the other hand, it is pretty much irrelevant to the legality issue.
ah, given the history early on, I suspect you g=could legitimately say no one owns you.
Well, then, it would seem you made a senisvble move. I made one of those about 25 years ago, so I certainly am not going to criticize; on the other hand, we all hav choices, and one of those choices is to decide if something is going to get to us or not. It is amazing how things can change when we choose to not be upset, rather than reacting.
On the contrary, I don’t have to suffer currently to know that one does not have to simply let every thing that happens get under one’s skin. Been there, done that, learned to change myself instead of sitting cursing the fact that others did not change to suit me.
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otjm
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wisdomseeker
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That is great. Just the other day, I went for Benediction at Church, the priest held up the Monstrance while the girl swung the incense. things like make me not want to go to Church. Seriously.
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paperwight66
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Good grief.
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JReducation
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That’s a little extreme, isn’t it? First, there is not rule against a female server, if the bishop allows it. Second, you were there for Benediction, not for the server’s benefit. Our faith does not depend on the gender of the server.
Let’s say that you stop going, because you don’t want to see a female server. Let’s look at this logically. What you will have done, without meaning to do so, is to stress the role of the server over the Eucharist. In other words, you would be sacrificing the Eucharist to avoid the server. I doubt that’s what you would want to do. Am I right or wrong?
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
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wisdomseeker
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No, brother, i am not leaving the Church, I just don’t want to be where these things happens, that is all. I pray that God will bring a Latin Mass to this town really soon. Not because I am deserving but because it is needed. God blessThat’s a little extreme, isn’t it? First, there is not rule against a female server, if the bishop allows it. Second, you were there for Benediction, not for the server’s benefit. Our faith does not depend on the gender of the server.
Let’s say that you stop going, because you don’t want to see a female server. Let’s look at this logically. What you will have done, without meaning to do so, is to stress the role of the server over the Eucharist. In other words, you would be sacrificing the Eucharist to avoid the server. I doubt that’s what you would want to do. Am I right or wrong?
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
BTW just because a bishop allows it doesnt mean it is right. History shows.
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archangel04
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LOL!!
Wow i am sorry but your comment is just ignorant.
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JReducation
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Bold is mine. We, the faithful, have no right to discourage others from doing what the Church allows. We don’t have to do it and the Church is fine with that choice. But she is not happy when we discourage others from doing what she allows, because in doing so, we’re claiming authority for ourselves that we don’t have.
Bishops don’t have to be right all the time. It would be good, but not necessary. Christ does not demand that. They have to teach, sanctify and govern.
I would suggest that you read a really cool book Something Beautiful for God by Malcom Muggeridge and then follow it up with The Perfect Joy of St. Francis by Felix Timmermans. When I read them, I discovered what is truly important and learned to ignore the rest.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
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garygodin
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Our Parish only permits males to be altar servers at the Latin or English masses. The Altar boys are enrolled in the the Saint John Berchmans Society. The main reason, Altar Boys are the seed bed for the priesthood. It is having a profound effect especially on the Altar Boys at the Latin Mass.
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preppyboy6
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“First, there is not rule against a female server” sorry brother but there is, Canon
Law has a rule against it, meaning no matter what the bishop says it does not matter girls are not to serve:shrug:
Law has a rule against it, meaning no matter what the bishop says it does not matter girls are not to serve:shrug:
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ringil
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Perhaps try focussing on Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament- isn’t that the point of Benediction?
Just trying to be helpful. I have to do this when the only available mass is a Life Teen Mass. I try to remind myself what is REALLY important.
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ringil
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I agree Brother!I’m reading the arguments on both sides and I’m stunned. Not a single argument has been made for sanctity.
We don’t do things or not do things because they are pleasing to us. We do some things and not others, because they lead us to holiness.
One thing that certainly leads us away from holiness is the absence of charity. Whether one is for female altar servers or opposed to the idea, the language and the hostility here between Catholics is unjustifiable. No matter which camp you’re in, you’ll score no points with the Lord if you treat your brother like garbage.
Speaking about holiness, the cross is about obedience. Christ obeyed even unto death. We are not Protestants, with all due respect to Protestants. I understand them when they speak about “the bible says” or “the bible does not say”. Catholics don’t function that way. We have never functioned that way. We have always maintained that there is a three-fold system of authority: Tradition, Magisterium and Scripture. Notice that scripture is mentioned third, because the Church put it together. The bible did not build the Church. The argument that the bible says or does not say does not hold water when it’s used to contradict the authority of the Church.
If we believe what the bible says, then we must face the a priori question: who put it into the bible? Answer: The Church. The same Church that put the bible together and whose authority we trust when we accept the bible is the Church that says that females may not be altar servers in the EF. No one goes to heaven, because they serve mass. However, every canonized saint has been a shining example of obedience to the Church. Conforming to Christ Crucified, who was obedient unto death, seems to be the common thread among the saints.
This also applies to those who would throw stones at the use of female altar servers in the OF. If the Church allows it, it is because she has the authority to do so. This side is equally wrong and equally disobedient in challenging what the Church allows.
All of us would do well to take what the Church says and do as we’re told. If you can have female servers in the OF, accept it and stop complaining. If you cannot have them in the EF, accept that too and stop complaining.
There are two attitudes that are far from Christian. First, is the obscene lack of charity on both sides. The second is the arrogance. The Church’s government has not been handed over to the faithful. Therefore, it is arrogant to the extreme to think that the faithful have the right to demand and to threaten, as some have posted all over the place . . .“we should stop donating” or “we should ignore” or “we should not do this or that and see what the Church does.” Common’ folks, that is arrogance. That is not faith.
You belong to the Church because it’s part of your journey toward holiness. It’s not a club, nor a civic organization that we control and where we get to opine on what should happen next. The Church is both a community on a journey toward holiness and an organization that has a leadership with the authority to make rules for its members. It has never been a democratic organization. If truth were told, there are no purely democratic organizations. Every organization has an infrastructure that even the vote of the membership cannot change.
I also think that it’s time that we stopped with the claim that everything is discrimination. Not everything is discrimination. Some things are tradition. There is nothing wrong with tradition. We have traditions all around us, in our homes, families, nations, cities, places of employment and so forth. If one does not like a tradition, one can take a deep breadth and go on or bail out. Attending a mass with a female server or without a female server is a one hour a week affair. I think that all of us can live with one hour of something that we don’t like. The truth is that there is much to be gained by offering my patience and charity in the face of something that I don’t like. It may save my soul.
Let’s stop with the meanness and focus on holiness.
Fraternally,
Br. JR, OSF
I will keep you and your illness in my prayers.
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Phemie
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I think you’d better look again. Canon Law allows females and has since 1983. That’s why girls were invited to serve in the 80s. Since people objected, Rome was asked to clarify whether the canon did, in fact, allow female altar servers as it was being interpreted. The responses was yes, but that they couldn’t be imposed. A bishop was free not to permit them in his diocese; a pastor was free not to allow them in his parish; and no priest could be forced to allow female altar servers at a Mass he was celebrating.
Even if they are allowed in the OF, the same cannot be said about the EF where the rubrics themselves do not allow them.
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ringil
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WOW I didn’t know that. I thought my Church was doing it against Canon Law in the 80’'s. Live and learn I guess.
I prefer boys at the altar like many but far too much attention is being given to this IMHO. Let our Shepherds lead!!
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sparkleythings
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i know i should be contributing to the thread, and I suppose I will do so by stating my opinion. Let me preface this by saying that I am a 22 year old male. I believe that females should not be altar servers, nor do I believe that Communion should be received in anyway but the tongue, I also feel that women should have their heads covered during Mass.
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JAMESPS3
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I look at it this way: There has been an undeniable drop off of priests in the church since the 1960’s. In part, I believe it is because boys growing up in the church since then do not see a need or the worth in serving the mass. There is nothing special about it to them. I mean, little boys want to look up to something. They want to be fire fighters, police officers, soldiers, doctors, etc. because those professions represent an office that in turn represents something that is greater than the whole - sacrifice, something special. Little boys used to want to be priests too! Why? Why not now? What happened? This is what I think happened: When girls started really getting involved in serving the mass in the 80’s they took over and boys gave it up. It was no longer theirs. Every OF mass I attend has almost 100% female servers and the boys have no interest in serving, or the mass for that matter. At the EF masses I attend there are a plethora of boys as alter servers (despite a much smaller congregation) and they seem to take their job very seriously. Serving the mass used to be a right of passage for a catholic male. Now that is gone. Serving the mass is suppose to be the first step in discerning the priesthood, is it not? Can we deny that the EF mass is still producing many more priests “per capita” than the OF. I think not. Plus, we can’t forget that is the EF form has been around for hundreds of years and its the EF that has produced volumes of Saints so it deserves our respect, not our contempt. In the end, you look at the fruits. Have issues in the Church improved since instituting alter girls: young male attendance, ordinations, chatechesis, etc? I do not believe so and I know the statistics sure don’t reflect improvement either.
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