No one is singing!

[archangel04]

Have you told your priest about the hymns that you consider theologically correct?

Why is the priest allowing these hymns to be done in the Mass?

Our bishop has forbidden certain pieces in Masses in our diocese. So it is possible for a priest or bishop to forbid pieces that are theologically incorrect. So why not speak to your priest, and point out those hymns that are theologically incorrect, and ask him to please forbid the singing of these pieces in Masses in your parish?

Even if you don’t sing, you should be able to enjoy the music and benefit from hearing it. If the hymns contain incorrect theology, and you recognize this, and all the other parishioners, including the priest, do not recognize this, then I think you owe it to your fellow parishioners to try to fix this problem.

If you’re shy, I realize that this might be a scary thing for you–to go to the priest and ask him to consider banning hymns. But shyness should not be an excuse to allow bad theology to be promulgated. Ask the Lord for boldness. Think of all the saints who were tortured and killed–if they can go through that, surely we can make an appt. with a priest and just talk to him, can’t we?

Godspeed to you.

Well I’ve yet to experience a theologically incorect hynm at the EF. But I’ve seen them sung at other praishes or even on youtube. Here is the weird part, I rarely sing at the OF when I do attend, maybe because I don’t know the song? But when Igo to the EF, I will be chanting all the way through, even if it’s in a low tone

 

[TheMc]

You might have seen this coming, but all these constant debates about style and hymn theology, this is yet another good reason for the propers. They are a major time saver.

 

[ProVobis]

I cannot find the quote, but, Cardinal Arizne also had some serious concerns about the music used in liturgy. He was not too keen on the guitar, for one thing. I need to dig up the quote.

BG, I think this is what you’re looking for:

"The local church should be conscious that church worship is not really the same as what we sing in a bar, or what we sing in a convention for youth. Therefore it should influence the type of instrument used, the type of music used. I will not now pronounce and say never guitars; that would be rather severe. But much of guitar music may not be suitable at all for the Mass.

ad2000.com.au/articles/2006/feb2006p3_2140.html

 

[JKirkLVNV]

Good heavens, what do you have against “How Great Thou Art?”

Are you bothered about the last verse–When Christ shall come with shouts of acclamation to take me home, what joy shall fill my heart."

Well, ignore that part if it bothers you. The rest of the hymn is so wonderful, and the melody soars. Substitute other words in your mind, just like many hymns have different lyrics for Protestants and Catholics.

It’s one of the few hymns that the congregation really sings well in our parish.

No, I’m not bothered by the hymn per se and it has a familiar resonance with me, as I sang it a lot growing up…in a BAPTIST church!

The point is that we have a great treasury of CATHOLIC hymns that is being ignored, in favor of A) banal and inane “folk” ditties sung in an effort to be relevant despite the fact that that genre has come and gone, leaving us stuck in the late 60’s or early 70’s; B) OR “Praise music,” which is better to my mind at least than the folk stuff; C) OR stuff we’ve overtly ripped off from our Protestant brethren (and trust me, given the banality of the folk stuff, I find myself missing the “meat” of “On Christ the Solid Rock I Stand.” But we’re Catholics and there are SOME theological problems with some of that hymnody).

 

[benedictgal]

No, I’m not bothered by the hymn per se and it has a familiar resonance with me, as I sang it a lot growing up…in a BAPTIST church!

The point is that we have a great treasury of CATHOLIC hymns that is being ignored, in favor of A) banal and inane “folk” ditties sung in an effort to be relevant despite the fact that that genre has come and gone, leaving us stuck in the late 60’s or early 70’s; B) OR “Praise music,” which is better to my mind at least than the folk stuff; C) OR stuff we’ve overtly ripped off from our Protestant brethren (and trust me, given the banality of the folk stuff, I find myself missing the “meat” of “On Christ the Solid Rock I Stand.” But we’re Catholics and there are SOME theological problems with some of that hymnody).

That is true. Sadly, the main culprit for a good portion of the bad music is OCP. They completely lost credibility with me when they included “Lean on Me” as a “hymn” in Spirit and Song. What’s next for them? “(I’m a) Soul Man”?

 

[Link0126]

I’m not a great singer and staying on key can be a problem for me, esp. with the songs at Mass. I find the melodies are often kinda strange and not like pop songs that I sing in the car. There is less predictiability to the hymns and so I just don’t sing in Church b/c I will be out of key most of the time.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

That is true. Sadly, the main culprit for a good portion of the bad music is OCP. They completely lost credibility with me when they included “Lean on Me” as a “hymn” in Spirit and Song. What’s next for them? “(I’m a) Soul Man”?

Shhhh, dear sister, they’ll hear you and think “Soul Man?!?!?! Now why didn’t we think of that!” We’ll be singing it by Christmas.

 

[agapewolf]

Shhhh, dear sister, they’ll hear you and think “Soul Man?!?!?! Now why didn’t we think of that!” We’ll be singing it by Christmas.

Except that the explanation for SS is this: An excellent resource for youth groups, retreats and liturgies with youth,** faith formation,** and more.

liturgy is only one of the intended uses. SS is not a hymnal that is solely used for mass.

 

[benedictgal]

Shhhh, dear sister, they’ll hear you and think “Soul Man?!?!?! Now why didn’t we think of that!” We’ll be singing it by Christmas.

I hope not. Sadly, this is a book that not a few parishes use for the Mass. It’s really sad.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

I hope not. Sadly, this is a book that not a few parishes use for the Mass. It’s really sad.

I wanted the Adoremus Hymnal. I didn’t prevail.

 

[Cat]

Well I’ve yet to experience a theologically incorect hynm at the EF. But I’ve seen them sung at other praishes or even on youtube. Here is the weird part, I rarely sing at the OF when I do attend, maybe because I don’t know the song? But when Igo to the EF, I will be chanting all the way through, even if it’s in a low tone

It’s good that you are able to attend the Mass that most edifies you.

At our OF Mass, we sing a mix of about 3/4 traditional hymns, including the Catholic hymns, and 1/4 “contemporary”, e.g., Here I Am, Lord.

Most people seem very happy with that mix. I personally like it a lot.

The music director is working on including some chant, but he is planning to proceed slowly so that people will have plenty of time to get used to it. This usually works better than making huge changes all at once.

 

[Rahn]

I won’t debate those on this forum that contend that you can adequately attend Mass and not participate, I can’t speak to the theology behind that line of thought. However, from a more down-to-earth standpoint, if you were invited to the White House or the Lodge for dinner, and you spoke only when spoken to and in a formulaic way, ate dinner and then rushed out at the end, you would be thought of as rude. If you wouldn’t do that to the President of the United States, or the Prime Minister of Australia, why is it ok to do that to the King of Kings and Lord of Lords?

If we move forward on the premise that singing is a good thing at Mass, I’m wondering what the solution is to this. How do we get the parish priests more interested in the music at Mass? How can we get more uplifting, easier to sing songs included? How are new songs incorporated (how can we make people comfortable, give them the opportunity to learn the words and the melody)? How can we reach out to those that love chant, and those that love CCM? It really comes down to making an effort, to it being important to you enough that you’re willing to join the parish council or the choir to make a difference.

I’ve shared this thread with my brother-in-law, who is studying to be a Franciscan priest. He has a wonderful voice and handles the musical aspects of his parish in Sydney.

 

[TheMc]

I won’t debate those on this forum that contend that you can adequately attend Mass and not participate, I can’t speak to the theology behind that line of thought. However, from a more down-to-earth standpoint, if you were invited to the White House or the Lodge for dinner, and you spoke only when spoken to and in a formulaic way, ate dinner and then rushed out at the end, you would be thought of as rude. If you wouldn’t do that to the President of the United States, or the Prime Minister of Australia, why is it ok to do that to the King of Kings and Lord of Lords?

If we move forward on the premise that singing is a good thing at Mass, [That premise is still partially false. Yes, singing is good. Singing the Mass is actually the highest form of the Mass, but the entire congregation need not sing to participate.] I’m wondering what the solution is to this. How do we get the parish priests more interested in the music at Mass? How can we get more uplifting, easier to sing songs included?[Invalid premise, invalid conclusion] How are new songs incorporated (how can we make people comfortable, give them the opportunity to learn the words and the melody)? How can we reach out to those that love chant, and those that love CCM? It really comes down to making an effort, to it being important to you enough that you’re willing to join the parish council or the choir to make a difference.

I’ve shared this thread with my brother-in-law, who is studying to be a Franciscan priest. He has a wonderful voice and handles the musical aspects of his parish in Sydney.

 

[ProVobis]

There is less predictiability to the hymns and so I just don’t sing in Church b/c I will be out of key most of the time.

I see some of my neighbors going to the earliest Mass because there is no singing and therefore they can get out early.

But I give them a break. It’s not like they’re young and robust.

 

[Mintaka]

Attending Mass and doing nothing but listening and praying is active participation. Unless you want to claim that, say, a quadriplegic who is mute should be kicked out of Mass for not being able to move correctly, sing correctly, and otherwise do stuff; but that a quadriplegic who can sing is participating minimally and can stay. Or that people who can’t read are less present at Mass than people who can read along with the hymns. And so on. It’s ridiculous.

Of course we should try to participate actively as appropriate for ourselves and as called by God. But if I should happen to go into ecstasy as soon as Mass starts and knew no more until the end of Mass (without blocking the aisle for anyone), that wouldn’t be participating less. Being absorbed totally in Mass to the point that you can’t move to grab a hymnal isn’t participating less. Answering only in your mind as you are caught up in Christ’s love isn’t refusing to say the responses. Deep contemplation is participating in Mass more actively, if anything, even if less visibly and audibly.

The sad thing is that, whereas Masses used to have room for every flavor of Catholic participation in Mass, there’s now an anti-contemplation spirit. I know a lady at my church who’s devout and a pillar of various stuff at school and the church; but she told me once straight out that “If people want to kneel and pray quietly, they should do it at home.” Since she’s big in the music program and in teaching religion to the kids, you can see where this is an idea she can and does enforce to the best of her ability. (Especially in the ten minutes right after a kid’s received First Communion.) But she’s about to retire, so this will probably change back.

 

[ProVobis]

Attending Mass and doing nothing but listening and praying is active participation. Unless you want to claim that, say, a quadriplegic who is mute should be kicked out of Mass for not being able to move correctly, sing correctly, and otherwise do stuff; but that a quadriplegic who can sing is participating minimally and can stay. Or that people who can’t read are less present at Mass than people who can read along with the hymns. And so on. It’s ridiculous.

Yep, same if you attend a Mass in another language. Do they really expect you to sing there, unless it’s in Latin?

 

[odile53]

Just be thankful that so far, nobody’s tried to do “Spirit in the Sky” in church! And don’t go giving them any bright ideas that it would be a good thing!

 

[benedictgal]

Just be thankful that so far, nobody’s tried to do “Spirit in the Sky” in church! And don’t go giving them any bright ideas that it would be a good thing!

You beat me to it. I’m just waiting for OCP to have the bright idea to include “I Still Haven’t Found What I’m Looking For”, “Gloria” and “(Pride) In the Name of Love)” from U2 in Spirit and Song.

I own a copy of Spirit and Song, with one on its way to a much higher authority for its review. It is interesting, but, the book is supposedly arranged for use in the liturgy for the liturgical year. The jazzy-soft pop-quasi rock style jus does not cut it for the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. What is sadder, still, is that we will now have noble words to use in the Ordinary of the Mass. Why are we insisting on slipshod music to go with them?

 

[RosalieM]

I was in choir for 4-1/2 years. I have recently resigned for a number of reasons. I’ve also changed my parish for a number of reasons.
Last week, the cantor sang, as a recessional hymn, the tune that sounds like Cat Stevens’ “Morning has broken”. I saw a different composer’s name, the words were different; but all I could hear was Cat Stevens. I hesitated to sing the whole thing through and smiled at the cantor. Help, I can still hear Cat Stevens!

 

[TrueLight]

I was in choir for 4-1/2 years. I have recently resigned for a number of reasons. I’ve also changed my parish for a number of reasons.
Last week, the cantor sang, as a recessional hymn, the tune that sounds like Cat Stevens’ “Morning has broken”. I saw a different composer’s name, the words were different; but all I could hear was Cat Stevens. I hesitated to sing the whole thing through and smiled at the cantor. Help, I can still hear Cat Stevens!

You know what’s funny? I usually pray the morning Liturgy of the Hours via my iPhone App, which has audio, and to my surprise the hymn for one of the days this week was “Morning was Broken”.