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St_Francis
Guest
I apologize; I misunderstood your intent.
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St_Pancake
Guest
I’m not interested enough to read four pages of this so i’m commenting after the first page.
If those that identify as catholic, would not vote for abortion supporting candidates, abortion would disappear. I grew up Baptist and I would bet they are more reliable pro-life voters.
If those that identify as catholic, would not vote for abortion supporting candidates, abortion would disappear. I grew up Baptist and I would bet they are more reliable pro-life voters.
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lynnvinc
Guest
Because I am pro-life I am a Democrat – I’m against killing thru environmental harms as much as I’m against killing thru abortion (or forcing women to self-abort and die, which complicates the abortion issue), and also against allowing people in our society to die (or engage in abortion) from poverty and lack of medical care when our country is so rich.
Unfortunately the Dems like Dean have not really embraced environmental issues much – they seem to do so more as coalition building than something they really believe in.
However, many in the Republican camp seem to be not very pro-life, in that they downplay environmental issue. I think Dems score somewhat better on life issues, despite themselves, and Republicans score somewhat worse, despite clamoring about being anti-abortion…which rings hollow to me, since they are not pro-life on many other life issues. (In fact someone here at CAF insisted that “pro-life” only referred to the abortion issue, which I don’t really accept, but it shows that is his/her ONLY life issue, ignoring or downplaying all others.)
I guess it was easier to feel good about one’s party some 50 or more years ago (whether Dem or Republican) when abortion was illegal, our country was a lot poorer, and we didn’t know much about the big environmental issues, such as climate change.
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dmelosi
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He was talking about pro abortion which everyone knows and keeps trying to deflect.
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St_Pancake
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Frankly, we’ll define ourselves thank you. That’s not your job. So often we have to hear how we aren’t pro life and we can’t call ourselves pro life because of x y and z. I think anyone that desires to end the 3000+ average daily murders of babies in the womb is pro life. Those supporting such practices are not “more pro life”.
Whatever you want to use to justify your vote is not my problem but don’t expect to sell it here.
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OrdinaryMelkite
Guest
I did not know Howard Dean is the gold standard by which whether one is considered a Democrat or not is measured.
It IS true, however…that the pro-choice side has completely hijacked the Democrat party. Just like the pro-life side controls the Republican side.
I go for the truth, regardless of party, anyway. I am a child of God and a pro-lifer first anyway.
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OrdinaryMelkite
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OrdinaryMelkite
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With all due respect, lynnvinc, many would say abortion is more of an important issue than environmental concerns. Most on both sides agree there is “climate change” going on. The question is…is it totally being caused by man or is it partly natural>
Questions about the environment which mostly affect jobs or not----and ultimately something that will continue going on no matter what we argue about (the environment will go on regardless of what is determined) is not as important as the DETERMINED, OBJECTIVELY WRONG issue of whether thousands/millions of unborn children are being killed every year worldwide or not.
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dmelosi
Guest
I am not sure that I said he is the gold standard.I did not know Howard Dean is the gold standard by which whether one is considered a Democrat or not is measured.
It IS true, however…that the pro-choice side has completely hijacked the Democrat party. Just like the pro-life side controls the Republican side.
I go for the truth, regardless of party, anyway. I am a child of God and a pro-lifer first anyway.
I didn’t think it was possible and really had hoped that the democratic party would be less pro-abortion, but it seems instead they are more entrenched in their stance. Howard Dean did run the party and still has a very big voice in it. I did a search and could not find hardly anything at all where any in their party disagreed with him.
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OrdinaryMelkite
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Michael68
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Howard Dean is trotted out regularly by MSNBC as a spokesperson for the Democrat Party. They think he speaks for DemocratsI did not know Howard Dean is the gold standard by which whether one is considered a Democrat or not is measured.
It IS true, however…that the pro-choice side has completely hijacked the Democrat party. Just like the pro-life side controls the Republican side.
I go for the truth, regardless of party, anyway. I am a child of God and a pro-lifer first anyway.
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ATraveller
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At least Americans have a party that will do something on abortions on demand. If you lived in Canada or the UK, the ‘Conservatives’ merely acknowledge the existence of people against abortions on demand. They just take our votes during an election and then tell us to shove off after winning or even losing. In light of that, personally, even though I’m not a firm supporter of free market capitalism like many in the GOP, the trade-off in voting for them isn’t so bad if I were an American. They do act on stricter measures and don’t merely take us for granted.There’s no room for prolife democrats in the Democratic Party.
And there’s no room for prolife Democrats in the Republican Party either.We are sort of homeless.
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lynnvinc
Guest
Then he might be “pro-choice” rather than “pro-abortion” or “anti-life.” Perhaps bec he is a doctor he may be more aware of issues re difficult and unwanted pregnancies, and perhaps feels it is not for him to decide, but the woman.
I would have a hard time deciding for a woman, even tho I’d really like her to have the baby and would like to gov to provide all necessary incentives (and removal of blockages) to having that baby (the carrot approach). I just wouldn’t want to push her into a corner in which she does something regrettable to herself and/or the baby. I was a young woman when abortions were was illegal (I even at the time fought against it having become legal), but also knew a woman (a friend of my roommate) who nearly bled to death from an illegal abortion, and I knew several other women who had illegal abortions. It is a tough issue. It’s hard to legislate morality.
I suppose those who are adamant about making abortion illegal would be okay with a woman who had an illegal abortion dying from it – thinking it is her due punishment.
It would be interesting to see if being pro-death penalty makes one more likely to be in favor of making abortions illegal.
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dmelosi
Guest
So many try to change what pro life really means. Why don’t we ask those most affected what they would call it, pro life or pro death. What do you think the most innocent would call it?
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dmelosi
Guest
Do you think abortion is a morality issue or a life/death issue?
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St_Pancake
Guest
I certainly don’t want women dying from any abortions, legal or illegally. However, as it stands now, with every “successful abortion”, someone dies. It’s the baby.
If abortion was as safe for the baby as it is the woman, I would be on board. As it stands, abortion is intentionally unsafe for the baby and it’s immoral and should be illegal.
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I_trust
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I was curious how many abortions occur each year…
According to WHO, every year in the world there are an estimated 40-50 million abortions. This corresponds to approximately 125,000 abortions per day.
I am not a sentimental person. But I cried when I read this.
We will be judged by history to be the most barbaric generation in the history of the world.
In the time it took to read this 30 babies died from abortion
God save us.
According to WHO, every year in the world there are an estimated 40-50 million abortions. This corresponds to approximately 125,000 abortions per day.
I am not a sentimental person. But I cried when I read this.
We will be judged by history to be the most barbaric generation in the history of the world.
In the time it took to read this 30 babies died from abortion
God save us.
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dmelosi
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Pro life refers to the abortion issue and is labeled otherwise by those trying to ease their conscience. In no way whatsoever does it show that is my only life issue. How in the world do you know that I ignore or downplay all others? That is simply a false accusation.
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SuperLuigi
Guest
Actually, conservatives give to charity four times the amount that liberals do despite making less money overall.
Also, Pope Francis has made it crystal clear that the environment is not on the same morality plane as abortion.
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St_Pancake
Guest
In fairness to all, I wanted to get a better idea of what was actually said by Dean. Too often, the headlines do not match what was said, in context. I found the following at washingtontimes.com/news/2017/mar/10/howard-dean-former-dnc-chairman-suggests-democrati/?utm_source=RSS_Feedutm_medium=RSS
During a March 2 segment of the program, MSNBC anchor Joe Scarborough held out former Kentucky Gov. Steve Beshear — who gave the official Democratic response to President Trump’s address to Congress — as a model centrist Democrat whom Republicans used to have trouble defeating in much of the country.
“Those were guys that you just couldn’t beat in the South when you weren’t running too far left on guns, on God, on abortion, on all of these other social issues,” Mr. Scarborough observed.
“Can the Democratic Party ever have a big enough tent to have people who were progressive on economic issues and conservative on social issues in their party again?” he asked Mr. Dean.
“No. Because the young generation isn’t that way,” Mr. Dean, a former Vermont governor replied. “I think the old left/right is an anachronism. It exists in Washington. It exists in the media. Young people don’t think that way.
“They are not ideological,” Mr. Dean added. “They are extremely interested in social justice, so we are never going back to maybe making compromises on abortion.”
During a March 2 segment of the program, MSNBC anchor Joe Scarborough held out former Kentucky Gov. Steve Beshear — who gave the official Democratic response to President Trump’s address to Congress — as a model centrist Democrat whom Republicans used to have trouble defeating in much of the country.
“Those were guys that you just couldn’t beat in the South when you weren’t running too far left on guns, on God, on abortion, on all of these other social issues,” Mr. Scarborough observed.
“Can the Democratic Party ever have a big enough tent to have people who were progressive on economic issues and conservative on social issues in their party again?” he asked Mr. Dean.
“No. Because the young generation isn’t that way,” Mr. Dean, a former Vermont governor replied. “I think the old left/right is an anachronism. It exists in Washington. It exists in the media. Young people don’t think that way.
“They are not ideological,” Mr. Dean added. “They are extremely interested in social justice, so we are never going back to maybe making compromises on abortion.”
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