No Salvation Outside the Catholic Church

[Patrick_Ambrose]

Why do people think so hard about something that is so obvious. Christ Founded One Church for Salvation.

The simple truth of no salvation outside the Catholic Church is not something to be argued but known. If you know Christ, TRULY know Christ, then you will have Salvation, the same Salvation He provided for us when he created His Church, the original Church that can be traced (whether you believe it or not) back to Christ, which is (even before the name came about due to a letter from a bishop, if I recall correctly) the Catholic Church. Therefore, no salvation outside the Catholic Church is a statement acknowledging the fact that the Catholic Church is the first and only Church founded by Christ. Christ did not found (forgive the english here) more than one church but one and only one. It was the actions of humans which divided it among separate churches/denominations a loooong time ago (in fact, it was attempted well before Luther) and was the reason for the usage of the name in the first place (NOT to designate it a denomination but to bring about the understanding that it is the one Church for all).

May God Bless And Keep You Always!

 

[KathleenGee]

True, Patrick,…you can’t argue people into believing Christ’s Church…it is hard for many to see beyond the failings or just impersonal impression they have of it. Takes grace and prayer.

 

[schaick]

Why do people think so hard about something that is so obvious. Christ Founded One Church for Salvation.

The simple truth of no salvation outside the Catholic Church is not something to be argued but known. If you know Christ, TRULY know Christ, then you will have Salvation, the same Salvation He provided for us when he created His Church, the original Church that can be traced (whether you believe it or not) back to Christ, which is (even before the name came about due to a letter from a bishop, if I recall correctly) the Catholic Church. Therefore, no salvation outside the Catholic Church is a statement acknowledging the fact that the Catholic Church is the first and only Church founded by Christ. Christ did not found (forgive the english here) more than one church but one and only one. It was the actions of humans which divided it among separate churches/denominations a loooong time ago (in fact, it was attempted well before Luther) and was the reason for the usage of the name in the first place (NOT to designate it a denomination but to bring about the understanding that it is the one Church for all).

May God Bless And Keep You Always!

The one universal Church that Jesus built YES!

The Catholic Church? I need to see proof that shows the Disciples believed such things, possibly an explanation as to why there are gaps in the traditions that to be traditions passed down don’t contain gaps of centuries.

Traditions passed down that only recently are fully developed and now require to be believed for my salvation.

 

[Roy5]

Sorry that I haven’t read all 240+ postings, so I likely will be repetitious. Sorry about that, too.

 I love the parable of the Good Samaritan. Remember? Christ was asked how to inherit eternal life. Jesus had a special opportunity to provide a theological answer, that you had to believe this or that. Instead, he responded: love God and love your neighbor.

 When he was asked who is your neighbor, Jesus responded by telling the story that made a Samaritan the hero. The Samaritans were despised by the religious establishment. They were hated heretics, among other things. 

  So, the notion that there no no salvation outside of the Catholic church strikes me as contrary to the message of the gospel. 

   I was a house guest some years ago at a Hindu home in India. Believe me, if those good folks don't get to heaven, I doubt if many of the rest of us get there. 

  God, I'm convinced, looks at our hearts and not at our theological beliefs or our church affiliation. When we get to heaven - well, I'm not all that specific when I use the word heaven - we will find people of every creed, color and country. "O that will be glory for me!" to quote an old gospel hymn. And glory for millions of others, too.

  One of the doctrines of traditional Catholicism that offends so many both within and outside the church is this old notion that there is no salvation outside the Catholic church. Most Catholics I know don't believe it. 

   Gosh, I am old enough to remember when it was a big sin to even enter a Protestant church. And I recall, too, when the local priest warned against going to the YMCA! Thank God we seem to have tossed aside such narrow bigotry. 

  True religion serves as a bridge and not a barrier.

 

[Janet1983]

Wow… I made it through the whole thread…
And I got stuck a couple of times with questions…
The only bad thing about reading them all at once is that I already forgot what the first 50 were…

The Catholic Church is likend to Noahs Ark those who were in the Ark were all saved, those who were not in the ARK all drowned.

Thank you Lord for giving me the Grace to be Catholic. And I pray that all who are not part of the Catholic Church become a Member of your One True Church. Amen

Ufamtobie

That sounds just as if you were trying to say that anybody who is not within the Catholic Church is going to go to hell.
Or if I interpret your words more nicely it means that anybody who is willingly not part of the Catholic Church (even though the Catholic Church states that she is the one church instituted by Christ) are going to go to hell.
Am I correct in my assessment? Please tell me if I am wrong.

However, there are many, I"m sure, who recognize, in their heart, God’s calling to the fullness of faith in the Church who remain disobedient to that calling (either for family reasons, worldly reasons, or otherwise). For these, salvation would not be available outside the Church as this is a “rejection” of the Holy Spirit.

Who would you consider to be part of that group? The “lapsed” Catholics (a.k.a. ex-Catholics), the ones that grow up in a Catholic community without being Catholic themselves? Who would be part of that group?
Do you think they will go to hell?

Since baptism is the sacrament of Christian membership, it is very important topic. So important that many clarifications have been issued by the Magisterium. Trinitarian belief is important as well as the form of baptism.

Sounds interesting. I have been baptised, but what about those Christians that do not have a form of baptism in their tradition (e.g. the Quakers)?

How do you explain these bible verses that say God gave men the authority to forgive sins?

Matt 9:8 “…they glorified God who had given such authority to men.”

John 19:23 “If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven, if you do not forgive the sins of any, they are not forgiven.”

We know that the Apostles were not perfect.

Confession, contrition, and satisfaction are the necessary dispositions to the reception of divine grace and forgiveness which is given with the absolution in the sacrament of confession by a priest, as given in John 20:21-23.

Let me start a little hypothesis on this one… What would be the difference if I instead go to my husband and confess to him (and also to God) and ask my husband to pray for me and God to forgive me?

The quotes are not intemperate, they are spiritually motivated, said motivation which you ought to learn to understand.

You will find many many many such remarks consistently throughout Catholic history. And in scripture itself. There is no difference. They are not the product of intemperance, but rather their condemnation is the product of a certain blindness of culture at best.

If you wish to understand them, side with them and seek to justify them, as an faithful Catholic, and you will find the goodness within. If you are unwilling to, your perspective is certainly against Catholic history and you might ask yourself what source it truly comes from.

Quotes
Your quotes are definitely pointing No Salvation Outside the Catholic Church out. The question I have is the following: What are you trying to imply with your last statement there? Are you saying that the unwillingness to become Catholic and argue alongside these men is having its final source in the devil? Maybe I’m just misunderstanding you…

Honestly, I do not believe that there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church. I do believe that there is salvation inside the Catholic Church. I also believe that anybody who comes to trust and believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and obeys Him alone is saved, be they outside or inside the Catholic Church.
I for my part was a cradle Catholic for most of my life, growing up in a small, tight knit village of 100% Catholics. I have been through Catholic schools (and public schools with Catholic religious education) from the age of 3 to the end of High School in grade 13. At the age of 22 or 23 I informally left the Catholic Church and I formally left at the age of 26. I do not believe that I am going to hell. (Who in their right mind believes of himself or herself that they are going to go to hell and doesn’t wish to change something about that?)
I’ve sat under the Catholic teaching for nearly 20 years of my life and have even been teaching it. I wouldn’t consider myself ignorant concerning Catholic teaching, even though I left the Church, but I don’t think that I am heading straight for hell either, if I keep on this path.
Maybe I’m just not getting this. The doctrine sound just very strange to me, considering the fact that after all I have heard and seen in this thread the odds seem to me against me (at least from a Catholic perspective) of ever seeing Heaven.
Why would the Lord exclude someone who loves Him?
To be honest, I never had to deal with this question growing up in the Church…

 

[Nicea325]

  One of the doctrines of traditional Catholicism that offends so many both within and outside the church is this old notion that there is no salvation outside the Catholic church. Most Catholics I know don't believe it.

And one of the things which offends many educated Catholics are those who have a profound misunderstanding on the issue of no salvation outside the Catholic Church. Have you actually taken the time to read church documents on the matter or do you like so many only read the heading: No salvation outside the CC and make false conclusions?

 

[Vico]

…

1. You wrote: "What would be the difference if I instead go to my husband and confess to him (and also to God) and ask my husband to pray for me and God to forgive me? "

Absolution is an act of the presbyter with faculties to so act by the Church, not others.

“God, the Father of mercies, through the death and resurrection of His Son, has reconciled the world to Himself and sent the Holy Spirit among us for the forgiveness of sins; through the ministry of the Church may God give you pardon and peace, and I absolve you from your sins in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.

The Council of Trent, Session XIV, i :

“But the Lord then principally instituted the Sacrament of Penance, when, being raised from the dead, He breathed upon His disciples saying, ‘Receive ye the Holy Ghost. Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them, and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.’ By which action so signal, and words so clear the consent of all the Fathers has ever understood that the power of forgiving and retaining sins was communicated to the Apostles, and to their lawful successors for the reconciling of the faithful who have fallen after baptism”.

1. You wrote: “Sounds interesting. I have been baptised, but what about those Christians that do not have a form of baptism in their tradition (e.g. the Quakers)?”

Many faiths have invalid baptism because they do not have trinitarian belief of God or of the meaning of baptism, or do not use the proper form of baptism. See this thread:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=41024

 

[scimitar60]

Okay. What about someone like me, who comes from a mixed Catholic-Protestant background? I am well aware that the Catholic church claims to be the one true church. I follow EWTN, read such Catholic publications as Our Sunday Visitor, America, US Catholic, and Commonweal, am well-versed in everything from the Church Fathers to the Catechism, wrote my undergraduate thesis on Aquinas, etc. Still, I do not believe for a minute that I need to be a Catholic to be saved. In fact, I find that idea alien to the heart of Christ’s message and helps keep me from being part of the Catholic church.

I would find Catholicism far more attractive to me personally if it was more accepting of diverse views. Was Mary a perpetual virgin, for example? Frankly, I don't care. There's nothing in the Bible about that - and she was married to Joseph. Why is that doctrine so paramount? Or, this whole transubstantiation teaching. I can accept that Christ is everywhere - 'lo, I am with you always' - so he certainly is present in the Eucharist. But he is equally present anywhere we happen to be. Or, confession. Yes, I know what Christ told the disciples, but I find it hard to believe that a priest can declare sins forgiven. That strikes me as God's job, not that of any man, even the most saintly priest.

And we could go on. But you get my point.

You seem to misunderstand. When you hear ‘You must be in the Catholic church to be saved’ we are simply saying that you must take part in the sacraments of the Catholic church. Most Protestant churches don’t have them.

 

[Janet1983]

1. You wrote: "What would be the difference if I instead go to my husband and confess to him (and also to God) and ask my husband to pray for me and God to forgive me? "

Absolution is an act of the presbyter with faculties to so act by the Church, not others.

“God, the Father of mercies, through the death and resurrection of His Son, has reconciled the world to Himself and sent the Holy Spirit among us for the forgiveness of sins; through the ministry of the Church may God give you pardon and peace, and I absolve you from your sins in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.

The Council of Trent, Session XIV, i :

“But the Lord then principally instituted the Sacrament of Penance, when, being raised from the dead, He breathed upon His disciples saying, ‘Receive ye the Holy Ghost. Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them, and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.’ By which action so signal, and words so clear the consent of all the Fathers has ever understood that the power of forgiving and retaining sins was communicated to the Apostles, and to their lawful successors for the reconciling of the faithful who have fallen after baptism”.

Well if we have received the Holy Spirit, what keeps us from forgiving each other if we sin against each other? Why shouldn’t I be able to confess my sins to a fellow believer?
The sins I have committed against God (which are all) I can confess to Him and ask my fellow believers to pray for me.

1. You wrote: “Sounds interesting. I have been baptised, but what about those Christians that do not have a form of baptism in their tradition (e.g. the Quakers)?”

Many faiths have invalid baptism because they do not have trinitarian belief of God or of the meaning of baptism, or do not use the proper form of baptism. See this thread:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=41024

So you wouldn’t consider those saved, even though they might love the Lord and serve Him?

 

[rev_kevin]

You seem to misunderstand. When you hear ‘You must be in the Catholic church to be saved’ we are simply saying that you must take part in the sacraments of the Catholic church. Most Protestant churches don’t have them.

But inorder to partake in the sacraments of the Catholic church one must be Catholic. If you are not Catholic you cannot partake in the Sacraments, ie The Eucharist. So I see no misunderstanding.

 

[Janet1983]

You seem to misunderstand. When you hear ‘You must be in the Catholic church to be saved’ we are simply saying that you must take part in the sacraments of the Catholic church. Most Protestant churches don’t have them.

But inorder to partake in the sacraments of the Catholic church one must be Catholic. If you are not Catholic you cannot partake in the Sacraments, ie The Eucharist. So I see no misunderstanding.

I don’t get the difference either. If most Protestant churches do not have these sacraments (from what you say Scimitar) then it does mean that in order to be saved one has to be a member of the Catholic Church.
Where is the misunderstanding here then?

 

[Vico]

Well if we have received the Holy Spirit, what keeps us from forgiving each other if we sin against each other? Why shouldn’t I be able to confess my sins to a fellow believer?
The sins I have committed against God (which are all) I can confess to Him and ask my fellow believers to pray for me.

So you wouldn’t consider those saved, even though they might love the Lord and serve Him?

The offense to God of sin needs forgivness from God, not from others. You can confesses your sins to a fellow believer, and ask them to pray for you, but they do not forgive for God. If you have perfect contrition, the sin may be forgiven by God without a sacramental confession, however that is risky, because we may not have perfect contrition.

Baptism is required for salvation, plus a final state of grace. Baptism may be by water, blood, or desire. It is insufficient for salvation to love and serve God if one rejects God in the end and dies unrepentent and not in a state of grace. It is sufficient to finally repent and accept God in the end and die in the state of grace. As the thief at the crucifixion experienced, Luke 23:42-43: “And he said to Jesus: Lord, remember me when thou shalt come into thy kingdom. And Jesus said to him: Amen I say to thee, this day thou shalt be with me in paradise.” (Rheims)

The faithful do not have the power to bind and loosen sins, that was only given by Jesus to the Apostles and their lawful sucessors.

John 20:23: “Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them: and whose you shall retain, they are retained.” (Rheims) See Haydock commentary below.

Haydock commentary:

John 20

Ver. 23. Whose sins you shall forgive,[2] &c. These words clearly express the power of forgiving sins, which, as God, he gave to his apostles, and to their successors, bishops and priests, to forgive sins in his name, as his ministers, and instruments, even though they are sinners themselves. For in this, they act not by their own power, nor in their own name, but in the name of God, who as the principal cause, always remitteth sins. This is generally allowed to be done by God’s ministers in the sacrament of baptism, as to the remission of original sin; and the Catholic Church has always held the same of God’s ministers, in the sacrament of penance. (See the Protestant Common Prayer Book, in the Visitation of the Sick.) — Whose sins you shall retain, they are retained: by which we see, that to priests is given a power to be exercised, not only by forgiving, but also by retaining; not only by absolving and loosing, but also by binding, by refusing, or deferring absolution, according to the dispositions that are found in sinners, when they accuse themselves of their sins. From hence must needs follow an obligation on the sinner’s part, to declare, and confess their sins in particular, to the ministers of God, who are appointed the spiritual judges, and physicians of their souls. A judge must know the cause, and a physician the distemper: the one to pronounce a just sentence, the other to prescribe suitable remedies. (Witham) — See here the commission, stamped by the broad seal of heaven, by virtue of which, the pastors of Christ’s Church absolve repenting sinners upon their confession. (Challoner)

 

[rev_kevin]

The offense to God of sin needs forgivness from God, not from others. You can confesses your sins to a fellow believer, and ask them to pray for you, but they do not forgive for God. If you have perfect contrition, the sin may be forgiven by God without a sacramental confession, however that is risky, because we may not have perfect contrition.

Baptism is required for salvation, plus a final state of grace. Baptism may be by water, blood, or desire. It is insufficient for salvation to love and serve God if one rejects God in the end and dies unrepentent and not in a state of grace. It is sufficient to finally repent and accept God in the end and die in the state of grace. As the thief at the crucifixion experienced, Luke 23:42-43: “And he said to Jesus: Lord, remember me when thou shalt come into thy kingdom. And Jesus said to him: Amen I say to thee, this day thou shalt be with me in paradise.” (Rheims)

The faithful do not have the power to bind and loosen sins, that was only given by Jesus to the Apostles and their lawful sucessors.

John 20:23: “Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them: and whose you shall retain, they are retained.” (Rheims) See Haydock commentary below.

Haydock commentary:

John 20

Ver. 23. Whose sins you shall forgive,[2] &c. These words clearly express the power of forgiving sins, which, as God, he gave to his apostles, and to their successors, bishops and priests, to forgive sins in his name, as his ministers, and instruments, even though they are sinners themselves. For in this, they act not by their own power, nor in their own name, but in the name of God, who as the principal cause, always remitteth sins. This is generally allowed to be done by God’s ministers in the sacrament of baptism, as to the remission of original sin; and the Catholic Church has always held the same of God’s ministers, in the sacrament of penance. (See the Protestant Common Prayer Book, in the Visitation of the Sick.) — Whose sins you shall retain, they are retained: by which we see, that to priests is given a power to be exercised, not only by forgiving, but also by retaining; not only by absolving and loosing, but also by binding, by refusing, or deferring absolution, according to the dispositions that are found in sinners, when they accuse themselves of their sins. From hence must needs follow an obligation on the sinner’s part, to declare, and confess their sins in particular, to the ministers of God, who are appointed the spiritual judges, and physicians of their souls. A judge must know the cause, and a physician the distemper: the one to pronounce a just sentence, the other to prescribe suitable remedies. (Witham) — See here the commission, stamped by the broad seal of heaven, by virtue of which, the pastors of Christ’s Church absolve repenting sinners upon their confession. (Challoner)

In John 20:23 Here Jesus was giving the disciples their Spirit-powered and Spirit-guided mission which was to preach the Good News about Jesus so people’s sins might beo forgiven. See the disciples did not have the power to forgive sins, only God can forgive sins, but Jesus gave them the privilege of telling new believers that their sins have been forgiven because they have accepted Jesus’ message.

See all believers have this same privilege. We can announce forgiveness of sins with certainty when we ourselves have found repentance and faith.

Acts 10:42-43 “And he, Jesus, ordered us to preach everywhere and to testify that Jesus is ordained of God to be the judge of all, the living and the dead. He is the one all the prophets testifed about, saying that everyone who believes in him will have their sins fogiven through his name.”

 

[Robbinson]

In John 20:23 Here Jesus was giving the disciples their Spirit-powered and Spirit-guided mission which was to preach the Good News about Jesus so people’s sins might beo forgiven. See the disciples did not have the power to forgive sins, only God can forgive sins, but Jesus gave them the privilege of telling new believers that their sins have been forgiven because they have accepted Jesus’ message.

See all believers have this same privilege. We can announce forgiveness of sins with certainty when we ourselves have found repentance and faith.

Acts 10:42-43 “And he, Jesus, ordered us to preach everywhere and to testify that Jesus is ordained of God to be the judge of all, the living and the dead. He is the one all the prophets testifed about, saying that everyone who believes in him will have their sins fogiven through his name.”

That seems like a stretch, with respect, Rev Ken - lets see what the verses actually say:

“**Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.” (Jn 20:22–23). **

Even without further exegisis, this certainly sounds, in context and in grammar, like the disciples/apostles here are being given the ability to “forgive sins” (active) not just declare sins forgiven by God - because it goes on to talk about sins “retained” by them, which are not forgiven.

But there is more. The apostles were also given separately the ability to “bind and lose” (this is more than declaring something forgiven by God without their action). **"Truly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. (Mt 18:18–19). **

Blessings,

Brian

 

[rev_kevin]

That seems like a stretch, with respect, Rev Ken - lets see what the verses actually say:

“**Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.” (Jn 20:22–23). **

Even without further exegisis, this certainly sounds, in context and in grammar, like the disciples/apostles here are being given the ability to “forgive sins” (active) not just declare sins forgiven by God - because it goes on to talk about sins “retained” by them, which are not forgiven.

But there is more. The apostles were also given separately the ability to “bind and lose” (this is more than declaring something forgiven by God without their action). **"Truly, I say to you, whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. (Mt 18:18–19). **

Blessings,

Brian

See my salvation comes only from God, no priest, bishop, pope, minister, rabbi or any preson of religion is able to give me salvation. I get my salvation through accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior, asking God to forgive my sins, accept and understand that I am a sinner, confess my sins to God. See I don’t have or need to go through a priest, minister, or anyone to confess my sins to God. Thats between me and God only. Now if someone that I have sinned against and I ask them to forgive me for that sin. its up to the person that I sinned against to loosen or retain my sin. If they forgive me then I’m forgiven but it he don’t forgive me then I’m not forgiven. See loosen and bind. We all have that privilege to loosen and bind.

 

[Robbinson]

See my salvation comes only from God, no priest, bishop, pope, minister, rabbi or any preson of religion is able to give me salvation. I get my salvation through accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior, asking God to forgive my sins, accept and understand that I am a sinner, confess my sins to God. See I don’t have or need to go through a priest, minister, or anyone to confess my sins to God. Thats between me and God only. Now if someone that I have sinned against and I ask them to forgive me for that sin. its up to the person that I sinned against to loosen or retain my sin. If they forgive me then I’m forgiven but it he don’t forgive me then I’m not forgiven. See loosen and bind. We all have that privilege to loosen and bind.

Rev Kevin:

Lets take this in “baby steps”.

Do you believe that Peter was given authority when given the “keys to the kingdom” and the power to bind and lose and that the apostles were given authority when they were given the power to bind and lose? If not, please help me understand how you understand those verses. As you think about it - note that “keys” harkens back to Isaiah 22 where the prime minsiter was given keys symbolizing authority, subject only to the king.

Thanks in advance.

Blessings,

Brian

 

[Shin]

See my salvation comes only from God, no priest, bishop, pope, minister, rabbi or any preson of religion is able to give me salvation. I get my salvation through accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior, asking God to forgive my sins, accept and understand that I am a sinner, confess my sins to God. See I don’t have or need to go through a priest, minister, or anyone to confess my sins to God. Thats between me and God only. Now if someone that I have sinned against and I ask them to forgive me for that sin. its up to the person that I sinned against to loosen or retain my sin. If they forgive me then I’m forgiven but it he don’t forgive me then I’m not forgiven. See loosen and bind. We all have that privilege to loosen and bind.

Well, Jesus Christ is a person, priest… etc… And He dwells in men too… and in different ways in different men, because to some He gives one gift, and to another another… He established His religion on earth… and He picked his priests and ministers for it…

Just as before when God established Judaism… He established a priesthood then too… then He fulfilled it with Christianity, establishing the Catholic Church…

The way the priesthood passes on for Catholics is similar to the way the priesthood was passed on for Jews…

And so too, the Jews had to go to the Temple to make sacrifices and sin offerings… now Jesus Christ is the single atonement and offering for sin…

I think that if you read the scriptures with an eye towards noticing that the apostles are singled out and given specific charges, commands and duties, that Christ isn’t always speaking to ‘all’ the people’ in those, but specifically to the apostles and those they appoint, you will see the Church there before your eyes.

 

[rev_kevin]

Well, Jesus Christ is a person, priest… etc… And He dwells in men too… and in different ways in different men, because to some He gives one gift, and to another another… He established His religion on earth… and He picked his priests and ministers for it…

Just as before when God established Judaism… He established a priesthood then too… then He fulfilled it with Christianity, establishing the Catholic Church…

The way the priesthood passes on for Catholics is similar to the way the priesthood was passed on for Jews…

And so too, the Jews had to go to the Temple to make sacrifices and sin offerings… now Jesus Christ is the single atonement and offering for sin…

I think that if you read the scriptures with an eye towards noticing that the apostles are singled out and given specific charges, commands and duties, that Christ isn’t always speaking to ‘all’ the people’ in those, but specifically to the apostles and those they appoint, you will see the Church there before your eyes.

I noticed something you said. “The way the priesthood passes on for Catholics is similar to the way the priesthood was passed on for Jews.” Now it could be similar because they knew no other way but the Jewish way. And now we know different ways.

I noticed another thing you said. “…and picked his priesters and ministers.” See I have to agree with you here. God picks his priests and ministers. Both are picked by God to do his work here on earth, both are santified by God to do his ministry work. Not just priests or the CC.

Yes Jesus was the sacrificial lamb for our sins. He made it possible for our sins to be forgiven. Not through confessing sins to a priest but to ask God for forgiveness through Jesus Christ. Not through a priest. Jesus never said that your sins will be forgiven if you go through a priest then he comes to me. No no he said no such thing.

 

[KathleenGee]

This morning after prayer, I began reflecting on the priesthood…Christ said there were those chosen for His kingdom who did not marry, the apostles – once they began their ministry – had their wives accompany them, but no longer as wives but as sisters…because the mission of Christ was now to be made manifest through them in the power of the Advocate, of Whom Christ promised.

The evening of Resurrection Sunday, Jesus appeared to the Apostles and gave them the power to forgive sins. Catholics believe that every word of Scripture, no matter how insignificant, is relate to the whole message of Salvation. Christ did not waste His words, and He incarnated the Church through the Apostles…When we confess our sins to God, we are confessing them to Jesus Christ. But before us, we see a human face – good psychology at that and an avoidance of introversion, scruples and uncertainty – but a man totally consecrated to God and in God.

I go in, I don’t like really to go to confession, but do so. I see my pastor and know his human frailty, but I am confessing my sins to Christ. The event is very ordinary and normal and usually with little felt emotion. But when I am absolved of sin and blessed, I no longer experience the presence of my pastor, but the actual presence of God Himself and the profound sacred.

The sacraments are concrete…no debating, dissension, confusion, mixing up of words.

Every priest I know and of what I have heard…they are happy with their choice to follow the Lord.

But the biggest factor is that every single one knows he is not worthy of being Christ’s ministers. Not a single one. It was a calling that came to them…some as young as 4 or 5 years old…yes, every priest did not feel worthy to be one of Christ’s ministers of His Body and Blood.

Just pondering the Word of God without the incarnation of the sacraments,especially confession and the Eucharist…does not bear life for me…The Word of God is united with confession and the Eucharist.

 

[Nicea325]

I noticed something you said. “The way the priesthood passes on for Catholics is similar to the way the priesthood was passed on for Jews.” Now it could be similar because they knew no other way but the Jewish way. And now we know different ways.

I noticed another thing you said. “…and picked his priesters and ministers.” See I have to agree with you here. God picks his priests and ministers. Both are picked by God to do his work here on earth, both are santified by God to do his ministry work. Not just priests or the CC.

Yes Jesus was the sacrificial lamb for our sins. He made it possible for our sins to be forgiven. Not through confessing sins to a priest but to ask God for forgiveness through Jesus Christ. Not through a priest. Jesus never said that your sins will be forgiven if you go through a priest then he comes to me. No no he said no such thing.

No offense,brother in Christ,but the last sentence is not true at all. And how do you know without a doubt you have been forgiven? You don’t!