Noise before Mass

[Sarabande]

I cringe even when there’s light applause after the recessional (usually accolades for the youth choir)…are there parishes out there that experience outbreaks of applause actually during the liturgy??

I’ve attended masses at parishes where the priest when he makes announcements before ending the mass, will have everyone applaud every person in the congregation (or at least it seemed that way). “Now lets applaud little Suzy’s Aunt Mildred for coming here today…” Literally, it was like that.

At the same time, I’ve been to bishop installations or ordinations where the people will applaud during the mass. That doesn’t really bother me, though.

One embarrassing moment for me… I was chanting a psalm. It was literally chanting - not singing which is a different way of using the voice. At the end of the psalm someone started clapping. I was so red with embarrassment because 1) as a musician, I don’t like applause at all for musicians at mass and 2) the person who did this really did break the line of prayer going from reading to psalm and back to reading. I do have a feeling, though, that the person clapping was a child because of the way it was quickly hushed like a mother or father putting their hands over the child’s hands to make them stop.

What do you all think of the argument about cell phones in Mass? I once heard an argument that some need to have the phone in there, and have it ON, because in case there’s an emergency with such-and-so…etc etc. I thought that was a ludicrous excuse. A couple weeks ago, a lady not only pulled her barely-audible ringing phone from her purse, but actually ANSWERED it during Mass, as she walked to the exit. Unbelievable. How hard is it to leave it in the car? Am I missing something?

Only time I think they would be acceptable in VIBRATE mode is if a medical professional is on call and have to have it on for emergencies. Growing up in a household where both of my parents are medical professionals there were a couple of times that my father was the only person who was on call and had to leave to help save a person’s life. There was no sound, just a vibrate so that he could feel it on his hip. I know that there are some people who would find leaving mass for an emergency unacceptable. To me, I’ve found that people who get mad at that are the same people who would sue a doctor for all he’s worth if the loved one died or had serious complications because the doctor turned his beeper/cell-phone off for mass. That’s another topic, though. Other reasons, if a caretaker of an aging parent or whomever needs to have it on vibrate in case the person they are caring for needs them right away, or other emergencies like that.

For most other reasons, I don’t see why people need them on. Once when I cantoring during communion, an older man’s cellphone went off. He actually answered it and spoke really loud - he was also third row from the front, so everyone could see and hear him. The people walking down the aisle to receive communion were either just shaking their heads or smiling in utter disbelief. “Hello?” “I’m at church.” “I said, I’m at church.” “I’ll call you back later.” “What?” He then proceeded to have a short conversation. Yes, this was going on during the communion. Unbelievable.

 

[Sarabande]

I cringe even when there’s light applause after the recessional (usually accolades for the youth choir)

I can tell you that the majority of musicians I know do not want that applause. We all cringe too, even though we realize that most of the people doing it just doesn’t know better. (I think it’s all part of that blurring of decorum in society today.)

 

[Katie1723]

…That said, I think it starts at the top. If the pastor encourages a “laid back” atmosphere where people can chat with each other, text message people, etc., of course the people will be like that as well. And it really doesn’t matter if the church is more community-oriented, because I’ve also been to parishes which still kept reverence in the church, but have a strong community. It really does have to do with the leadership to give example that although the society today tends to be laid back with everything, it doesn’t mean that mass has to be the same way.

I think the priest saying the Mass should come out prior, in his vestments, and make an announcement that all cell phones, unnecessary yakking, etc must be stopped before Mass starts. I also think there should be a few more “hellfire and brimstone” homilies. Nice doesn’t cut it. People need to be told in no uncertain terms.

Kathy

 

[CTA1967]

I think the priest saying the Mass should come out prior, in his vestments, and make an announcement that all cell phones, unnecessary yakking, etc must be stopped before Mass starts. I also think there should be a few more “hellfire and brimstone” homilies. Nice doesn’t cut it. People need to be told in no uncertain terms.

Kathy

We are getting told to turn off our cell phones before mass now, but unfortunately our “fire and brimstone” priest passed away a while ago…

 

[Katie1723]

We are getting told to turn off our cell phones before mass now, but unfortunately our “fire and brimstone” priest passed away a while ago…

I knew one of those priests in VA. People sat up and took notice when he had the Mass.

Kathy

 

[turtle18]

I carry earplugs in my purse so I can use them before Mass. It doesn’t drown out all the noise but it really, really helps.

Maybe I can also put on a pair of Princess Leia earmuffs. This would be a “non-traditional” approach to dealing with what is perceived as a “traditionalists” problem.

Who knows? Maybe I can even get the priest to bless my earmuffs. Maybe I can design some in the form of crosses.

 

[ac_claire]

Ockham;4899323:

Would jokes have been appropriate at Calvary?

Of course not, but that does not mean it is inappropriate for a homily.

Yes, the homily is a completely different part of the Mass. Generaly people aren’t trying to pray during the homily you know?

 

[Sarabande]

I think the priest saying the Mass should come out prior, in his vestments, and make an announcement that all cell phones, unnecessary yakking, etc must be stopped before Mass starts. I also think there should be a few more “hellfire and brimstone” homilies. Nice doesn’t cut it. People need to be told in no uncertain terms.

Kathy

I think you are right. “Nice” doesn’t get people thinking sometimes. It’s one of the first things I learned when I taught music in gradeschool classrooms. Being nice all the time doesn’t get you anywhere. The kids will take advantage and walk all over you and pretty soon there is chaos. Watching a great IHM sister who was nice AND firm, thus receiving love and respect from her students, I slowly learned how to do it that first year. There are times when priests do need to be firm and direct in order to get people to pay attention and stop what they’re doing.

Cell phone announcements are often made prior to mass. It’s like that in the classical music concert world as well. We either have to put that announcement in the program or have a person come out on stage and ask people to do that. And I’ve experienced the same thing during a concert when someone would just answer the phone and start having a conversation with that person. Everyone around him/her would just glare and would tell at that person to be quiet. They do it too when people will start talking during a performance. Those people would then get embarrassed and realize what they’re doing and stop. At church for some reason, if someone does that, the “admonisher” becomes villified and people bring up this, “How dare he tell me to be quiet. We’re at church. He should stop being a crank and be happy that I’m here.” I’ve definitely heard similar things like that come from people complaining about being admonished. Strange, but I’ve never heard people talk that way about an “admonisher” at a concert unless that person was really obnoxious about it.

 

[Appleby]

There is chatting in the pews of Catholic churches outside the U.S.A.

There certainly is here in Canada.

 

[Appleby]

I cringe even when there’s light applause after the recessional (usually accolades for the youth choir)…are there parishes out there that experience outbreaks of applause actually during the liturgy??

What do you all think of the argument about cell phones in Mass? I once heard an argument that some need to have the phone in there, and have it ON, because in case there’s an emergency with such-and-so…etc etc. I thought that was a ludicrous excuse. A couple weeks ago, a lady not only pulled her barely-audible ringing phone from her purse, but actually ANSWERED it during Mass, as she walked to the exit. Unbelievable. How hard is it to leave it in the car? Am I missing something?

I was at Midnight Mass once on Christmas Eve and in the pew in front of me a woman was blabbering on her cell phone to somebody about their dinner plans the next day! The Verger came down and asked her to shut it off and she gave him a look that would have blistered paint. It isnt just in church though; the electronic binkie/umbilical cord might as well be an oxygen line the way some people cling to it. I have teacher friends who say that every time they try to restrict cell phones in the classroom, it is the PARENTS who shriek that they cannot be out of touch with their babies for 1/2 nanosecond, ever, ever, ever. What on earth did our parents do before the Binkie Phone was invented and we went to camp for the whole summer? (Mama always said, Cartwheels!)

 

[pnewton]

Yes, the homily is a completely different part of the Mass. Generaly people aren’t trying to pray during the homily you know?

I also do not think the vatican has any condemnation about humor in the homily. I have heard priests from every continent and it seems universal.

 

[Ockham]

The priest at a nearby parish likes to find out if there are any upcoming birthday or anniversaries in the coming week prior to the recessional hymn. It reminds me of when Carol Bernett used to take questions from the audience.

The homily is part of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. Why would humour be necessary?

 

[Gardenman]

It just seems to me, that there are huge segments of our population that have lost all common sense. We have become a society that is accepting of just about everything and we are supposed to sit back and tolerate everything that is thrown at us, God forbid we offend anyone or tread on their “rights”.

It’s pretty sad when someone has to actually make an announcement for the congregation to shut off cell phones/beepers, etc. prior to ANY service.

For what it’s worth, I have yet to see ANY of these infractions happen at the Latin Masses that I attend. The ambience sets the tone for the behavior and decorum of the faithful.

 

[Cat]

This issue of noise before Mass really gets me steamed.

I left my childhood parish because of it and liturgical abuses. I realize I’m reacting like a typical traditionalist, but the irreverance and the noise just got me too angry.

In the old days of the latin Mass and even during the first decade or so of the New Mass, the silence and decorum were there. The church was quiet, there was soft organ music playing before the Mass began, and you could still have QUIET private prayer time, The sanctuary was already set up for the Mass to begin and the only “distraction” was MAYBE one altar boy lighting candles or putting out the cruets.

The congregation entered in silence, found their seats and either prayed silently or just sat meditating.

Then it slowly evolved into what I call a “Production”. The sanctuary became like the stage in a theater. There are now probably a dozen or more people milling about “setting up” for the “show”. Musicians dragging instruments, electrical chords, stands, dropping sheet music, folding chairs being clanged around and rearranged a million times. Then there are all these other assorted people walking around up there, up and down from the pulpit, going through the communion rail and into the congregation. Then several engage in conversation with each other right up in front of the tabernacle. Then a few more come on to the scene and start fussing with flowers and plants. Then a few more start fussing with testing microphones, tuning pianos, then they move those infernal chairs around a few more times…next comes the “half-vested” celebrant and he putters around for a few minutes. You don’t even want to know how sloppy most of these people are dressed.

Meanwhile, the choir loft in the rear is dark and empty. Then someone starts playing with the lights.

Meanwhile, the congregation has followed the cue of the “production staff and prop crew” (yes, sarcasm) and are just merrily chatting away, standing in groups in the aisles, waving to each other, joking, etc. like they’re in the parking lot.

I’ve seen better decorum in a real theater. At least the stage is hidden behind a curtain and all the set up is out of the audience’s view, and the noise is minimal.

When the time comes for Mass to begin, the sanctuary is now this congested, cluttered mess of “props” which have pretty much become the focus for the “performance” which is soon to begin. DURING the mass, it’s no different. The musicians come and go at will. They are constantly trading seats with each other, and preparing for their next "number"…the altar servers are pretty much clueless as to what they’re supposed to be doing, and it’s all TOO DISTRACTING.

[edited]

Are you a musician?

What am I supposed to do?

I’m serious–what would have me to do? The books don’t open by themselves and turn to the appropriate page. And a good musician follows the “cheat sheet” or dreadful things happen. Just last weekend, the organist at my home parish apparently wasn’t paying close enough attention and played the “Amen” before the priest had elevated the Body and Blood of the Lord. I’ve done something similiar–at one Mass, I didn’t have the Gloria ready, and didn’t realize it until during the Gathering Hymn. The book was out in my car. During the welcome and the Confiteor, I went dashing out to my car to get my book!

I can’t help it! I’m a human being who forgets things and makes mistakes and rustles the music pages no matter how hard I try to keep them quiet.

And I can’t memorize music. I wish I could so that I would never have to worry about those noisy music books and hymnals. But I can’t. I couldn’t even when I was a child, and that’s one of the main reasons I decided to give up my piano major in college and become a medical technologist instead.

Honestly, your post makes me feel like crying because I am human and clumsy and frail, and because some people don’t seem to be willing to accept that and instead, call me “distracting.” I’m not a distraction, I’m a sister in Christ, a daughter of the King, just like you are. It really makes me feel sick at heart to know that there are people out in the congregation who are distracted by me and my feeble attempts to play for them and for the Lord. I don’t even want to play. I’m scared to play now.

 

[Gardenman]

I sincerely apologize for any discomfort you experienced from my rant. That was never my intention.

No, I am not a “musician” in the traditional sense…I do play the piano, but not profesisonally (never have ) and have never played in church.

My “focus” on “musicians” in what I wrote, was done so because it seems that whenever I go to a different chuirch, it’s the disproportianate space that all the singers and musicians take up in the sanctuary that becomes the distraction. To ME, they overpower the altar, the tabernacle, and the celebrant. Your eye can’t help but be drawn to this because of it’s sheer size. The larger the sanctuary, the more they tend to fill it up with music related people and “equipment”…and the ensuing result is that all of this becomes the focal point.

How can it not?

I have no problem with music in the Liturgy, but I also don’t attend Mass expecting to see and hear a full orchestra, numerous different soloists and all the other “choir” people taking center stage. I thought that’s what choir lofts were intended for. Every church I go to that does this sort of thing has a choir loft that is virtually empty and no longer used.

Perhaps it is because I live in a large metropolitan city, but these churches anymore seem to have all these assorted people walking around in the “background” of the sanctuary during mass and it IS a distarction.

Evidently, I’m just an old fuddy duddy that wants to focus on what the priest is saying and doing and nothing else. lol

 

[SteveGC]

Once when I cantoring during communion, an older man’s cellphone went off. He actually answered it and spoke really loud - he was also third row from the front, so everyone could see and hear him. The people walking down the aisle to receive communion were either just shaking their heads or smiling in utter disbelief. “Hello?” “I’m at church.” “I said, I’m at church.” “I’ll call you back later.” “What?” He then proceeded to have a short conversation. Yes, this was going on during the communion. Unbelievable.

That’s the funniest thing I’ve ever heard. I feel bad for laughing about it, because in one sense, it’s no laughing matter, but I can’t help it. And as for your points about doctors on-call, or caretakers…those are good points.

 

[Holly3278]

I also enjoy a quiet, prayerful atmosphere before Mass. I never did like going to Mass early only to be distracted by people who are chatting away. And because I suffer from paranoia, I often think that they are gossiping about me. This is not fun. I wish that others at church would be a little more considerate. Not that I expect them to know that I suffer from paranoia but it would be nice if they would be more considerate of those of us who wish to pray.

 

[Cat]

I sincerely apologize for any discomfort you experienced from my rant. That was never my intention.

No, I am not a “musician” in the traditional sense…I do play the piano, but not profesisonally (never have ) and have never played in church.

My “focus” on “musicians” in what I wrote, was done so because it seems that whenever I go to a different chuirch, it’s the disproportianate space that all the singers and musicians take up in the sanctuary that becomes the distraction. To ME, they overpower the altar, the tabernacle, and the celebrant. Your eye can’t help but be drawn to this because of it’s sheer size. The larger the sanctuary, the more they tend to fill it up with music related people and “equipment”…and the ensuing result is that all of this becomes the focal point.

How can it not?

I have no problem with music in the Liturgy, but I also don’t attend Mass expecting to see and hear a full orchestra, numerous different soloists and all the other “choir” people taking center stage. I thought that’s what choir lofts were intended for. Every church I go to that does this sort of thing has a choir loft that is virtually empty and no longer used.

Perhaps it is because I live in a large metropolitan city, but these churches anymore seem to have all these assorted people walking around in the “background” of the sanctuary during mass and it IS a distarction.

Evidently, I’m just an old fuddy duddy that wants to focus on what the priest is saying and doing and nothing else. lol

Consider this.

I play in a church that has one of those choir lofts. The main reason it is not used is that people cannot climb the steps to get up into it.

I am only 51, but I cannot do a flight of stairs more than once or twice. This means that if I get up into the choir loft, and then have to go to the bathroom (another charming characteristic of women in their 50s!), I’m going to hurt badly.

Many of the older folks cannot even manage the flight of stairs once. And the lack of bathroom is definitely a real problem for many of them, too.

It might not matter if it’s only a few old people that can’t make it up, but if the pianist or the organist or the choir director can’t make it up, well, that’s going to affect the choir a tad.

The parish installed avery simple elevator years ago to get people down into the Fellowship Hall, but because of structural constraints (a “bell tower”), they cannot install an elevator into the choir loft. Actually, they probably could, if they had access to mucho denario.$$$

I think that at the 100th Anniversary of the Parish celebration, they will use the choir loft and recruit a huge choir of people who may not even attend that parish, but who are willing to sing. But they will be younger people with good knees, and I will probably not be playing for them. They’ll probably hire a professional organist to use the Allen and make the nave ring with praise.

Also consider this. A lot of Catholic churches are not designed for music and choirs, and many don’t have good sound systems, so a lot of amps and wires and other equipment has to be stuck out in the middle of the church. There’s just no place to put stuff and musicians. That could be why it looks awkward and heavy to you. Kind of like putting the EZ Boy recliner in the kitchen because there’s no room for it in the living room.

I hope that new Catholic churches are being built with modern music in mind (choirs, keyboards and other electronic instruments, sound amplication, etc.) . I know that many of you cringe at the idea of “modern music” in the Church, but I think it’s here to stay. in a hundred years, it won’t be “modern” anymore.

 

[Ockham]

Cat, Here are a couple resources that should help you in your music ministry. It seems like your frustrations stem from the clamshell design yet you can’t access a choir loft. Churches were designed with choir lofts for centuries so I’m wondering how these problems were dealt with then. Modern music is quite present in many parishes but chant actually has priority in the Catholic Church. If you keep in mind the primary purpose of Mass is to worship Christ in the Holy Sacrifice then everything else should fall into perspective.

adoremus.org/0408SacredMusic.html

musicasacra.com/pdf/smfaq.pdf

ewtn.com/expert/answers/music_and_instruments.htm

newliturgicalmovement.org/2008/12/open-letter-to-praise-and-worship.html

cantemusdomino.net/

 

[pnewton]

It seems like your frustrations stem from the clamshell design yet you can’t access a choir loft. Churches were designed with choir lofts for centuries so I’m wondering how these problems were dealt with then.

I can answer part of that. We looked at adding a choir loft in our last expansion and nixed the idea. In the past, people with disabilities were excluded if they could not make the stairs. Today, we have the ADA to mandate access. For us, it made a loft cost-prohibitive.