Nominees for worst hymn

[benedictgal]

Lord of the Dance has got to be one of the worst things (won’t call it a song) ever. The original Simple Gifts and the Aaron Copeland version are so beautiful, that it makes this even worse. We used to sing a song back in the 50s and 60s to this tune, but not all speeded up like this. Here are the words I remember:

All our hope in salvation
All our trust in the Lord
Are the Holy Spirit
Evermore adored
Something something something
In His true light
Something else God’s own Son makes our right.

Anybody else ever sing this? The few people from grade school that I still see don’t remember it at all (and aren’t exactly Catholic anymore for that matter) and my sister was just too young when we moved to remember it.

There are a couple songs we sing, mercifully not often enough that I can think of them right now, that I call Mass…the Musical. One last Easter had an ooh-ooh part in it. When we sang it at practice I jumped up and did a little Esther Williams water ballet flourish. We sang it once or twice, but people were having a hard time keeping a straight face, so the director finally gave up on it. I make a fuss when Lord of the Dance comes up too, but I haven’t been able to get rid of it yet. When I cantor in the summer, we can’t use it, because I sound so awful trying to do it. Maybe it’s mental, but I really can’t sing it. Same for Eagle’s Wings. It can’t be used when I cantor because I just can’t sing it.

Gather Us In does sound like a sea chanty. Hosea sounds like a drinking song to me…should be in the Student Prince.

I forgot about Hosea. I just can’t stand that one, especially during Lent. There is another one that is just as bad: Psalm 100, which has one verse, “Sing, Glory, Glory, Alleluia–I’m free”. It calls for clapping and a whole bunch of noise. Someone played that piece during adoration and I was cringing because here we had the Blessed Sacrament exposed and all of this nonsense was going on during the exposition. I tried to tell the spiritual director, but he ignored me.

 

[mercygate]

Its the basis for the inspiration.

Also, the Psalms tell us to sing to the heavens, sing to the seas.

Heck, the Liturgy of the Hours, we pray;

Ice and snow, Praise the Lord

Sea and all living Creatures, Praise the Lord.

Etc.

Does the ice and snow literally hear us, or is this just the poetic expression of a soul, who is praising God?

Jim

So you like Joan Baez. Do you like Allegri?

 

[benedictgal]

benedictgal

Well thats your personal opinion and not necessarily shared by countless others.

Well being very familiar with John Denver and Joan Baez, and having played St. Jesuits music at Mass, they’re styles aren’t close and the words and meanings are miles apart.

I do like Joan Baez and John Denver however.

Once again, your opinion, which is well, I won’t go further.

Actually they did, and if you read their song books, they tell how they arrived at certain songs, and they also specify which songs are appropriate for Mass at different times in the liturgical calender and for different occasions.

We always played St. Louis Jesuit songs at Confirmation. The Bishops, 4 different ones in that time period, never told us to stop playing those hymns. In fact, The Glory and Praise Hymnal, is approved by the Bishops. Heck, at one Confirmation, he request the choir sing “On Eagles Wings.”

I don’t much will come of it, because the Bishops in general, know little about writing music. They’ll put out a document on their desire for composers to follow the spirit of the liturgy, which composers like the St. Louis Jesuits have, and we’ll see more good music by other modern composers.

How you handle it will be another issue entirely.

Jim

If you read the other posts, you will find that many people do not care for the tripe that comes from the St. Louis Jesuits. I also invite you to read this article:

crisismagazine.com/january2002/feature2.htm

SJL is hardly sacred music. They seem to have that feel-good Brady Bunch experience down pat, but they do nothing to indicate that this is a Holy Sacrifice we are witnessing and partaking.

You don’t seem to like anything written prior to the SJL. That’s very sad because hymns written in the 9th century carry more theological and liturgical depth than anything that SJL, David Haas or Marty Haugen (who is actually a Protestant, which explains some of the heretical notions his hymns have taken) could ever write. There is nothing wrong with modern composition, so long as it keeps in mind the criteria the Church has for its sacred, liturgical music.

 

[RosalieM]

The worst song is “Glory and Praise to Our God.” It has these atrocious vocal leaps and bad modulations. It’s very embarrassing to listen to.

I’m glad you mentioned this one. When I sang it with the choir for the first time recently, it reminded me of a silly ditty I made up some years ago about a doll. The last line was exactly the same…and I wasn’t serious when I made it up – nor am I a musician. Help!

 

[daeve]

As I’ve been reading the posts, some more musical disasters have come to mind:

Sendero de la Vida (Spanish)
Go Out to the World/Vayan al Mundo
I. Myself, Am the Bread of Life (loved it at first, but when I closely read the lyrics, there was some serious heresy in that song)
Lord, I Lift Your Name on High
Shine, Jesus, Shine
I Will Choose Christ
Sr. Bernadette’s mangled version of “Come, Holy Ghost” where she inserts a modern refrain that emphasizes “we are church”
Earthen Vessels
Sing to the Mountains, Sing to the Seas
Thank You, Lord, for Giving Me Life

I am wondering if any of these will show up during next April’s Papal Mass at Yankee Stadium or in D.C.

Sr. Bernadette’s song…Is this the one that starts out like this:
We are a pilgrim people
We are the church of God
United …I can’t remember the rest right now.

I wish I could remember the way we did it way back when in grade school. I guess those days will always be my frame of reference: “Is this the way we did it in grade school?”

 

[THurifer2]

Sing to the mountains…sing to the sea…

SOunds exactly like a Jingle for a seafood product.

 

[bluerose]

I’ve been trying to sing Amazing Grace to the Gilligan tune, and I just can’t do it. I can’t remember the words that way!

Maybe this will help…

Just sit right back and you’ll hear a tale
Amazing grace, how sweet the sound
A tale of a fateful trip
That saved a wretch like me
That started from this tropic port
I once was lost but now am found
Aboard this tiny ship
Was blind but now I see
The mate was a might sailing man
'Twas grace that taught my heart to fear
The skipper brave and sure
And grace my fears relieved
Five passengers set sail that day
How precious did that grace appear
For a three-hour tour (a three-hour tour)
The hour I first believed (the hour I first believed)
**
I’m glad this is an internet forum… I’d probably be stoned to death for starting this!

 

[Micki]

All Are Welcome
aka
Hail, Hail the Gang’s All Here

Micki

 

[verdigirl]

As I’ve been reading the posts, some more musical disasters have come to mind:

Sendero de la Vida (Spanish)
Go Out to the World/Vayan al Mundo
I. Myself, Am the Bread of Life (loved it at first, but when I closely read the lyrics, there was some serious heresy in that song)
Lord, I Lift Your Name on High
Shine, Jesus, Shine
I Will Choose Christ
Sr. Bernadette’s mangled version of “Come, Holy Ghost” where she inserts a modern refrain that emphasizes “we are church”
Earthen Vessels
Sing to the Mountains, Sing to the Seas
Thank You, Lord, for Giving Me Life

I am wondering if any of these will show up during next April’s Papal Mass at Yankee Stadium or in D.C.

Whoa…what’s the problem with El Sendero de la Vida? It translates to “The Path of Life.” It’s based on Psalm 16, and is written by Lourdes Montgomery with text approved by the Spanish Bishops’ Commission on the Liturgy.

Is it just the performance of it that’s bugging you? Maybe your parish’s music ministers aren’t up to snuff, and maybe they need your support and patience. What’s your parish budget for musician salaries, or even musician development?

Let me offer you OCP’s interpretation on how this should be sung. Click here.

Benedictgal, I get the picture that you don’t speak Spanish.

However, I’m with you on the “Thank you Lord.” I had no idea people still did that song. In elementary school, we used to change it to “Thank you Lord for giving us a bus.” Don’t ask.

People, if your choir is making silly choices like this, or if they’re not performing the music well, HELP THEM. Get them signed up for a liturgy course so they can make prudent judgments about the quality of music for our sung prayer. Get them voice lessons, or organ lessons. Help them, don’t attack them!

 

[lak611]

I almost forgot about “Anthem”, another awful song.

We are called, we are chosen.
We are Christ for one another.
We are promise to tomorrow,
while we are for him today.
We are sign, we are wonder,
we are sower, we are seed.
We are harvest, we are hunger.
We are question, we are creed.

 

[Wolseley]

Wolseley

Wolseley:

Then there’s Bob Dufford’s “Sing to the Mountains, Sing to the Sea”, which I steadfastly refuse to have anything to do with, as it reminds me too much of a Wiccan paean to Pangea. I am a Christian, not a pagan. I do not sing to mountains and seas, I sing to the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.

You must have a problem with reading Sacred Scripture, because the song “Sing To The Mountains, Sing To The Sea,” is based
on it, just as many of St. Louis Jesuit songs are.

Raise a glad cry, you heavens: the LORD has done this; shout, you depths of the earth. Break forth, you mountains, into song, you forest, with all your trees. For the LORD has redeemed Jacob, and shows his glory through Israel. Isaiah 44:23

Jim

I have no problem reading Sacred Scripture whatsoever, my dear sir, and I resent the implication that I do. If you take the time to go back and read my post (Number 205), you will see that what I said was, “Supposedly Dufford’s tune is based on Psalm 118”.

Okay, let’s review:

Go to this link, click on “music and lyrics” for “Sing to the Mountains”, and read what’s printed in the upper left-hand corner of the sheet music: “Based on Psalm 118”.

musicministry.starcatcher.ca/index.php?type=list

Now, go to this link, and read Psalm 118 carefully:

biblegateway.com/passage/?search=psalm%20118&version=31

Please show me where that Psalm says anything about singing to mountains or seas. That was my point. The only thing in that Psalm that shows up in Dufford’s jingle is the line “This is the day the Lord has made, let us rejoice and be glad”, as I already clearly stated.

mercygate:

In the Psalm, it is the mountains and hlls that are singing. WE are not singing TO the mountains.

Precisely.

 

[verdigirl]

Sr. Bernadette’s song…Is this the one that starts out like this:
We are a pilgrim people
We are the church of God
United …I can’t remember the rest right now.

I wish I could remember the way we did it way back when in grade school. I guess those days will always be my frame of reference: “Is this the way we did it in grade school?”

We are a pilgrim people
We are the church of God
United in one Spirit,
Disciples of the Lord.

Yes, I think that’s the one to which she’s referring.

Actually, it’s based on the old Lambillotte tune, with the Veni Creator Spiritus text injected into it. I always thought it was a great way to teach that old hymn to the people, and I’ve used it for Pentecost and Confirmations for years.

In the parishes in which I’ve worked, the socioeconomic level of the parishioners is quite low. They are educated by schools in which music and the arts are cut directly out of the budget, and whose sole mission is to teach the kids enough to pass standardized tests. Therefore, they are not exposed enough to art music to be able to have it resonate with them at the liturgy. They are looking to have the Spirit move them at Mass, and at this moment, what does it is a more earthy connection with the music they hear. They have to be able to feel comfortable with it to sing it.

It changes lives.

So that leaves the pastor and I with a pastoral decision to make. Do I just throw hymns at them, knowing that for the most part, the text is theologcially sound but risk alienating them? Or do I bring them along, slowly but surely, using music that has text that is relatively sound (but purging what isn’t), in melodies that reach them, and introducing our traditional chants little by little?

What would you do?

Music in Catholic Worship, the document written by the Committee on the Liturgy says the following:

The pastoral effectiveness of a celebration will be heightened if the texts of readings, prayers, and songs correspond as closely as possible to the needs, religious dispositions, and aptitude of the participants. A type of celebration suitable for a youth group may not fit in a retirement home; a more formal style effective in a parish church may be inappropriate in a home liturgy. The music used should be within the competence of most of the worshipers. It should suit their age,level, cultural background, and level of faith.

It also says regarding liturgy planning committees:

The planning team or committee is headed by the priest (Celebrant and homilist) for no congregation can experience the richness of a unified celebration if that unity is not grasped by the one who presides, as well as by those who have special roles. The planning group should include those with the knowledge and artistic skills needed in celebration: men and women trained in music, poetry, and art, and familiar with current resources in these areas; men and women sensitive also to the present day thirst of so many for the riches of scripture, theology, and prayer. It is always good to include some members of the congregation who have not taken special roles in the celebrations so that honest evaluations can be made.

So…for all of you who are expressing such impatience with the music ministry at your parish, I ask you all: What are you doing to solve the problem at YOUR parish? If you have enough artistic experience to turn your nose up at the music, why don’t you join the liturgy committee?

Also, what are you doing to help your parish musicians get to the level that they can understand the need to improve their skills?

Don’t sit on the sidelines and complain, folks.

 

[verdigirl]

I have no problem reading Sacred Scripture whatsoever, my dear sir, and I resent the implication that I do. If you take the time to go back and read my post (Number 205), you will see that what I said was, “Supposedly Dufford’s tune is based on Psalm 118”.

Okay, let’s review:

Go to this link, click on “music and lyrics” for “Sing to the Mountains”, and read what’s printed in the upper left-hand corner of the sheet music: “Based on Psalm 118”.

musicministry.starcatcher.ca/index.php?type=list

Now, go to this link, and read Psalm 118 carefully:

biblegateway.com/passage/?search=psalm%20118&version=31

So, what exactly is your issue with this particular song? Is it that it doesn’t use all of Psalm 118, or that it’s scripturally/theologically unsound?

And anyway, our lectionary comes from the NAB, not from the NIV, right? Link to the correct lectionary approved for use in the English-speaking United States:

usccb.org/nab/bible/

 

[daeve]

Forgive me for saying so, but that’s just sad.

Why don’t YOU join the choir, or also, just start with a recited Evening Prayer at your parish? Watch what happens to your ministries once more opportunities to pray become available. You don’t even really need a priest present, and I’m sure your pastor would welcome this prayer outlet.

Seems as though the visit to the seperated brethren is purely for a concert…for plain entertainment purposes. Our liturgical music has a completely different purpose altogether, and we need all hands on deck.

I would strongly encourage you to pray over ways to help your parish along instead of diverting your attention to other faiths.

Every September one of the choir members has an opportunity during the announcements to invite people to join us. There are 7 of us total. Two of the three men travel on business, so they’re not there every Sunday. The only real soprano is a college student with 3 jobs, so she’s not there every Sunday. The other 3 women include one dedicated alto, a doctor who is occassionally not available and me, a 57 year old former soprano who’s usually singing alto with laryngitis. We’d love to have more people in the choir, and we only practice for 1/2 hour before Mass and 45 minutes between Masses. That’s the same time we have school of religion, so you’d think some of the parents who will have to come back anyway would just hang around and sing, but no. I’m really worried about Christmas this year. We used to get some Christmas only folks (called them the seasonal choir) but not last year and so far not this year. If any of you are in the Webster Groves MO area, looking for an open invitation to sing…Holy Redeemer would love to have you.

 

[benedictgal]

We are a pilgrim people
We are the church of God
United in one Spirit,
Disciples of the Lord.

Yes, I think that’s the one to which she’s referring.

Actually, it’s based on the old Lambillotte tune, with the Veni Creator Spiritus text injected into it. I always thought it was a great way to teach that old hymn to the people, and I’ve used it for Pentecost and Confirmations for years.

In the parishes in which I’ve worked, the socioeconomic level of the parishioners is quite low. They are educated by schools in which music and the arts are cut directly out of the budget, and whose sole mission is to teach the kids enough to pass standardized tests. Therefore, they are not exposed enough to art music to be able to have it resonate with them at the liturgy. They are looking to have the Spirit move them at Mass, and at this moment, what does it is a more earthy connection with the music they hear. They have to be able to feel comfortable with it to sing it.

It changes lives.

So that leaves the pastor and I with a pastoral decision to make. Do I just throw hymns at them, knowing that for the most part, the text is theologcially sound but risk alienating them? Or do I bring them along, slowly but surely, using music that has text that is relatively sound (but purging what isn’t), in melodies that reach them, and introducing our traditional chants little by little?

What would you do?

Music in Catholic Worship, the document written by the Committee on the Liturgy says the following:

The pastoral effectiveness of a celebration will be heightened if the texts of readings, prayers, and songs correspond as closely as possible to the needs, religious dispositions, and aptitude of the participants. A type of celebration suitable for a youth group may not fit in a retirement home; a more formal style effective in a parish church may be inappropriate in a home liturgy. The music used should be within the competence of most of the worshipers. It should suit their age,level, cultural background, and level of faith.

It also says regarding liturgy planning committees:

The planning team or committee is headed by the priest (Celebrant and homilist) for no congregation can experience the richness of a unified celebration if that unity is not grasped by the one who presides, as well as by those who have special roles. The planning group should include those with the knowledge and artistic skills needed in celebration: men and women trained in music, poetry, and art, and familiar with current resources in these areas; men and women sensitive also to the present day thirst of so many for the riches of scripture, theology, and prayer. It is always good to include some members of the congregation who have not taken special roles in the celebrations so that honest evaluations can be made.

So…for all of you who are expressing such impatience with the music ministry at your parish, I ask you all: What are you doing to solve the problem at YOUR parish? If you have enough artistic experience to turn your nose up at the music, why don’t you join the liturgy committee?

Also, what are you doing to help your parish musicians get to the level that they can understand the need to improve their skills?

Don’t sit on the sidelines and complain, folks.

Music for Catholic Worship was never approved by the entire USCCB. I think that is where the entire problem lies. I have met with my pastor. Unfortunately, everyone has bought into OCP 1150% so it’s difficult. The only recourse, for right now, is to see what the USCCB will do to solve the problem they helped to create.

Verdigirl, read this article regarding sacred music
crisismagazine.com/january2002/feature2.htm

It should prove to be an eye opener. Regarding Sr. Bernadette’s song, she has really done some damage to Come Holy Ghost. It’s like adding lipstick and blush to the Pieta. You wouldn’t dream of doing that to the beautlful statue, would you?

 

[daeve]

Did you know that you can sing any Emily Dickenson poem to the tune of “The Yellow Rose of Texas”?

I didn’t know any of her poems off the top of my head, for shame…I know, so I looked them up. This one works pretty well…

SUCCESS is counted sweetest
By those who ne’er succeed.
To comprehend a nectar
Requires sorest need.

Not one of all the purple host
Who took the flag to-day
Can tell the definition,
So clear, of victory,

As he, defeated, dying,
On whose forbidden ear
The distant strains of triumph
Break, agonized and clear

Here’s the website if you want to try others: bartleby.com/113/1001.html.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

benedictgal

If

you read the other posts, you will find that many people do not care for the tripe that comes from the St. Louis Jesuits. I also invite you to read this article:

crisismagazine.com/january2002/feature2.htm

They don’t make the majority of Catholics and crisis magazine seems a little biased toward neo-Catholicism.

SJL is hardly sacred music. They seem to have that feel-good Brady Bunch experience down pat, but they do nothing to indicate that this is a Holy Sacrifice we are witnessing and partaking.

Thats your opinion, which myself and others don’t share.

You don’t seem to like anything written prior to the SJL.

Once again, you’re making statements about me, that I never stated. As I said in an earlier post, there is almost no music I do not like and that would include old liturgical Music.

That’s very sad because hymns written in the 9th century carry more theological and liturgical depth than anything that SJL, David Haas or Marty Haugen (who is actually a Protestant, which explains some of the heretical notions his hymns have taken) could ever write.

Ah a Protestant, there’s the real reason for hating his music.

Again, you’re stating your own personal taste in liturgical music, which unfortunately for you, not everyone shares.

Jim

 

[verdigirl]

Every September one of the choir members has an opportunity during the announcements to invite people to join us. There are 7 of us total. Two of the three men travel on business, so they’re not there every Sunday. The only real soprano is a college student with 3 jobs, so she’s not there every Sunday. The other 3 women include one dedicated alto, a doctor who is occassionally not available and me, a 57 year old former soprano who’s usually singing alto with laryngitis. We’d love to have more people in the choir, and we only practice for 1/2 hour before Mass and 45 minutes between Masses. That’s the same time we have school of religion, so you’d think some of the parents who will have to come back anyway would just hang around and sing, but no. I’m really worried about Christmas this year. We used to get some Christmas only folks (called them the seasonal choir) but not last year and so far not this year. If any of you are in the Webster Groves MO area, looking for an open invitation to sing…Holy Redeemer would love to have you.

I take my hat off to you, and I pray that your parish community will support your music ministry enough to fund it well. It’s amazing how much a good leader can galvanize the ministry.

I’ll be in the Denver area this Christmas, but if I happen to be there, I PROMISE I’ll hang out with you!!!

 

[benedictgal]

So, what exactly is your issue with this particular song? Is it that it doesn’t use all of Psalm 118, or that it’s scripturally/theologically unsound?

And anyway, our lectionary comes from the NAB, not from the NIV, right? Link to the correct lectionary approved for use in the English-speaking United States:

usccb.org/nab/bible/

I hate to burst your bubble, but the Lectionary is also under the sights of Vox Clara, especially with regards to Liturgicam Authenticam. Just read Fr. Richard John Neuhaus’ lament over the translation that we are using for Mass. The only reason why we are stuck with this very bad translation (for now) is because the USCCB owns the rights to the New American Bible. Now, from the looks of it, the USCCB is going to have to re-translate everything to conform to Liturgicam Authenticam. Oddly enough, the rest of the English-speaking world uses the RSVB. Go to this website:

www.firstthings.com

and you will find, in the archives section of On the Public Square, Fr. Richard John Neuhaus’ sommentary.

 

[verdigirl]

Music for Catholic Worship was never approved by the entire USCCB. I think that is where the entire problem lies. I have met with my pastor. Unfortunately, everyone has bought into OCP 1150% so it’s difficult. The only recourse, for right now, is to see what the USCCB will do to solve the problem they helped to create.

It should prove to be an eye opener. Regarding Sr. Bernadette’s song, she has really done some damage to Come Holy Ghost. It’s like adding lipstick and blush to the Pieta. You wouldn’t dream of doing that to the beautlful statue, would you?

No, but I certainly welcome OCP’s attempts to help me bring our traditional texts to a congregation that doesn’t know anything about chant.

I employ a five-year plan when looking at pieces of music, with the end result being a hymn or a chant. So I used Sr. Bernadette’s piece for two years straight, and then when I finally used the Lambillotte piece, it was no problem. I even had people come up to me and remark how much they enjoy hearing that piece every year.

LOL!

I guess it worked!

Also, I think we’re splitting hairs about whether all the Bishops approved Music in Catholic Worship. It’s like saying that the Bishops are like-minded in denying Communion to pro-choice politicians.

I digress, but I bring it up to make a point. We don’t have to have their unanimous agreement to have a sound document that provides good guidelines for us to use.

Are you disagreeing with my quotes?