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benedictgal
Guest
Yes. In fact, Msgr. Georg Ratzinger was the choirmaster at the Regensberg Cathedral. Let’s hope the bishops will do something right, for a change.
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Cat
Guest
On November 2 ( Friday evening), our church choir performed Faure’s “Requiem.”
A chamber orchestra with some of the best musicians in our city.
A million-dollar pipe organ and an organist who knew how to play it! (I’m amazed he agreed to play–our church has been boycotted by the Organist Guild for several years, ever since we fired our music director because he was openly practicing homosexual sex. But this organist was practically drooling over our organ, which, IMHO, is the best in the area.)
A 40-voice choir.
Well-trained and well-voiced soloists.
A popular (in our city) and skilled choir director.
It was sung in Latin, but the translations were in the program (thank goodness, because Phillistines like me can never remember Latin!).
It was absolutely beautiful. Several of the city’s best-known musicians in popular and classical styles were in the audience. It was fun to see all those non-Catholics in the audience.
When I mentioned the next day to the members of a music club that I belong to that our church had done this Requiem, they were all upset that they had missed it. The reaction was, “OMG! I wish I would have known! I would have been there! I love Faure! I love his Requiem!”
But in spite of the fact that our parish has almost 10,000 people, I would estimate that the size of the audience was around 200 people, maybe not even that many. And many of these audience members were NOT from our parish, as I mentioned earlier. Many were musicians, not necessarily even Christian.
I honestly truly think that most Catholics are simply not interested in classical music. I doubt very much that there will be any changes in the United States as a result of the bishops’ conference on music and liturgy. It’s not worth the risk of losing all the “nominal” Catholics who still attend Mass. I honestly don’t think they would come if the only music done in Mass is classical, chant, and tradition hymns.
If they didn’t come to Faure, I don’t hold out much hope that they would sit through non-contemporary music at Mass week after week when the Protestant megachurch down the street features a full rock band with very talented musicians.
200 people to hear Faure. It’s sad, isn’t it?
A chamber orchestra with some of the best musicians in our city.
A million-dollar pipe organ and an organist who knew how to play it! (I’m amazed he agreed to play–our church has been boycotted by the Organist Guild for several years, ever since we fired our music director because he was openly practicing homosexual sex. But this organist was practically drooling over our organ, which, IMHO, is the best in the area.)
A 40-voice choir.
Well-trained and well-voiced soloists.
A popular (in our city) and skilled choir director.
It was sung in Latin, but the translations were in the program (thank goodness, because Phillistines like me can never remember Latin!).
It was absolutely beautiful. Several of the city’s best-known musicians in popular and classical styles were in the audience. It was fun to see all those non-Catholics in the audience.
When I mentioned the next day to the members of a music club that I belong to that our church had done this Requiem, they were all upset that they had missed it. The reaction was, “OMG! I wish I would have known! I would have been there! I love Faure! I love his Requiem!”
But in spite of the fact that our parish has almost 10,000 people, I would estimate that the size of the audience was around 200 people, maybe not even that many. And many of these audience members were NOT from our parish, as I mentioned earlier. Many were musicians, not necessarily even Christian.
I honestly truly think that most Catholics are simply not interested in classical music. I doubt very much that there will be any changes in the United States as a result of the bishops’ conference on music and liturgy. It’s not worth the risk of losing all the “nominal” Catholics who still attend Mass. I honestly don’t think they would come if the only music done in Mass is classical, chant, and tradition hymns.
If they didn’t come to Faure, I don’t hold out much hope that they would sit through non-contemporary music at Mass week after week when the Protestant megachurch down the street features a full rock band with very talented musicians.
200 people to hear Faure. It’s sad, isn’t it?
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daeve
Guest
It was written in 1955, but it’s not from a Broadway Show. I like it as a recessional. I like the part that says, “Let peace begin with me”…that seems nice in a recessional.
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CarrieH
Guest
Some people have no clue. A dear friend of mine had a woman come up to him and offer some general suggestions about his organ-playing. Little did she know that she was talking to a man who had studied with André Marchal at the Paris Conservatory, who had a Masters Degree in organ performance and choral conducting, and who was the organ professor at the local Catholic college.
He handled it well, inviting her to have a seat at the console and show him how she thought the organ ought to be played. Of course she said, “Oh, I don’t know anything about playing an organ.” He replied, '“Just as I thought. Have a nice day.” Granted, the vast majority of parish churches do not have a musician of that caliber, but one never knows.Getting back closer to the original topic, I think our diocese’s cathedral has the right idea. The Vigil and early a.m. Masses are fairly traditional, the 9:30 a.m. Mass is “contemporary,” and the last morning Mass is a High Mass complete with all the smells and bells, chanted Mass parts, and all that. If someone comes up and gripes about the music at any given Mass, the director can simply say, “You might be happier at the x o’clock Mass.” Even so, some people can never be pleased.
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Wolseley
Guest
I understand, but Dufford’s lyrics start out murkily—you’re not quite sure what or who you’re singing about or to until you’re well into the song, whereas Francis leaves no doubt that he is praising God first and foremost right off the bat. Look at the contrast:
Francis:
"Most high, all-powerful, all good, Lord!
All praise is yours, all glory, all honor
And all blessing…
To you alone, Most High, do they belong…
All praise be yours, my Lord, through all that you have made,
And first my lord Brother Sun,
Who brings the day; and light you give to us through him."
He goes on to mention the moon, and stars, and wind, and air, and water, and fire, but always, always, God is mentioned first.
Dufford:
“Sing to the mountains, sing to the sea
Raise your voices, lift your hearts
This is the day the Lord has made
Let all the earth rejoice.”
Supposedly Dufford’s tune is based on Psalm 118, but the only thing in the psalm that’s similar is the line “This is the day the Lord has made, let us rejoice and be glad in it.” There isn’t a cotton-pickin’ thing in there about singing to mountains and seas. IMHO this is just another example of the rather pedestrian talent displayed by Dufford and the SLJs, in that they had to employ such fundamental alteration of the original texts to produce the stuff they did. What they ended up with wasn’t even the original text they started out with.
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SeekerJen
Guest
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SeekerJen
Guest
Very sad. That’s a gorgeous work. I had the good fortune to be part of the soprano section during a performance of it.
Again, I’m very grateful to our parish. We have a group of dedicated benefactors who donate enough money that we can hire, say, the city Symphony Orchestra for big concerts and still keep ticket prices really low- usually a few bucks each. Any proceeds earned go to purchase things needed by the music ministry, rather than dip into the parish funds for them.
Our parish choir (sadly, I was not able to participate due to time constraints), along with the choirs of three other local churches and the city chamber symphony, are performing Handel’s “Messiah” in our church this Friday. I got some of the last tickets before they completely sold out. Our church’s capacity is 800.
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Tim_Kirchoff
Guest
I. Have heard. Worse.Worst hymn (if I hear it again, I’ll SCREAM!!):
LET THERE BE PEACE ON EARTH
World Peace Prayer… ugh.
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SeekerJen
Guest
Okay, folks, as promised: the lyrics to what is IMO the worst hymn in our books.
I Say “Yes,” Lord, by Donna Pena, arranged by Marty Haugen
(cantor sings verses, congregation sings repeats in parentheses, all sing refrain)
To the God who cannot die, I say “Yes,” my Lord (I say “Yes” my Lord).
To the One who hears me cry, I say “Yes” my Lord (I say “Yes” my Lord).
To the God of the oppressed, I say “Yes” my Lord (repeat).
To the God of all justice, I say “Yes” my Lord (repeat).
Refrain: I say “Yes” my Lord, in all the good times and all the bad times.
I say “Yes” my Lord, to every word you speak.
I am a servant of the Lord, I say “Yes” my Lord (repeat).
I’m a worker in the fields, I say “Yes” my Lord (repeat).
I’m a prisoner of their wars, I say “Yes” my Lord (repeat).
Like a politician, inevitably, I say “Yes” my Lord (repeat).
Refrain
For the dream I have today, I say “Yes” my Lord (repeat).
To be a healer of all pain, I say “Yes” my Lord (repeat).
To come to love my enemies, I say “Yes” my Lord (repeat).
For your peace in all the world, I say “Yes” my Lord (repeat).
Refrain
Like that of Job, unceasingly, I say “Yes” my Lord. (repeat)
Like that of Maria wholeheartedly, I say “Yes” my Lord (repeat).
Like that of David in a song, I say “Yes” my Lord (repeat).
Like Israel, for you I long, I say “Yes” my Lord (repeat).
Refrain
Our music director doesn’t even try to make me sing the verses when I’m cantor and he’s been forced by those in power to use this hymn. He sings the verses, I lead the congregation, and the whole thing seems to drag on for about an hour.
I Say “Yes,” Lord, by Donna Pena, arranged by Marty Haugen
(cantor sings verses, congregation sings repeats in parentheses, all sing refrain)
To the God who cannot die, I say “Yes,” my Lord (I say “Yes” my Lord).
To the One who hears me cry, I say “Yes” my Lord (I say “Yes” my Lord).
To the God of the oppressed, I say “Yes” my Lord (repeat).
To the God of all justice, I say “Yes” my Lord (repeat).
Refrain: I say “Yes” my Lord, in all the good times and all the bad times.
I say “Yes” my Lord, to every word you speak.
I am a servant of the Lord, I say “Yes” my Lord (repeat).
I’m a worker in the fields, I say “Yes” my Lord (repeat).
I’m a prisoner of their wars, I say “Yes” my Lord (repeat).
Like a politician, inevitably, I say “Yes” my Lord (repeat).
Refrain
For the dream I have today, I say “Yes” my Lord (repeat).
To be a healer of all pain, I say “Yes” my Lord (repeat).
To come to love my enemies, I say “Yes” my Lord (repeat).
For your peace in all the world, I say “Yes” my Lord (repeat).
Refrain
Like that of Job, unceasingly, I say “Yes” my Lord. (repeat)
Like that of Maria wholeheartedly, I say “Yes” my Lord (repeat).
Like that of David in a song, I say “Yes” my Lord (repeat).
Like Israel, for you I long, I say “Yes” my Lord (repeat).
Refrain
Our music director doesn’t even try to make me sing the verses when I’m cantor and he’s been forced by those in power to use this hymn. He sings the verses, I lead the congregation, and the whole thing seems to drag on for about an hour.
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Tim_Kirchoff
Guest
My grade school choir director relly liked that song. We never got past the first verse, though!
It really isn’t that bad when it doesn’t go on forever!!!
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thechrismyster
Guest
Vandalism is never justified. Just because we don’t like a song is no excuse to vandalize a book that doesn’t belong to you.
unless it was your book, then rip to your hearts content.
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Dee_Dee_King
Guest
i remember this fold song back in the 80’s that went something like, “sing hosanna… sing hosanna… sing hosanna… sing halleluia sing halleluia.”
it was so terrible. luckily i haven’t heard it since.
also anything contemporary in english that is set to a piano and other non liturgical instruments. basically anything that isn’t in the modality of gregorian chant or sacred polyphony that was written post 1945 or earlier. i’m a traditional type person so i dislike most contemporary music that isn’t fitting for mass.
it was so terrible. luckily i haven’t heard it since.
also anything contemporary in english that is set to a piano and other non liturgical instruments. basically anything that isn’t in the modality of gregorian chant or sacred polyphony that was written post 1945 or earlier. i’m a traditional type person so i dislike most contemporary music that isn’t fitting for mass.
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Matas
Guest
I read through this thread finally, and wow. I thought it was “just me,” but I see now that I’m not alone. I came back to the Church almost 3 years ago. I had a steep re-learning curve to climb, but I happily had at it, with all the ups and downs along the way. I discovered that I really enjoyed singing, so I sang with abandon anything our music minister threw at us.
I sang and sang, until I started realizing just what I was singing. It hit me one day, when we were singing “Gather Us In.” I just stopped. It was during the verse:
“*Not in the dark of buildings confining
Not in some heaven, light years away,
But here in this place, the new light is shining,
Now is the Kingdom, now is the day… *”
I was like ----->
Lord Have Mercy! What am I saying here? Busted my happy singing bubbles right there.
There were more songs, but I don’t know all of their names. One I do know, and that is that “…You and I, are the Bread of Liiiiife.”
“This is our body, This is our blood. A living sign of God in Christ”
Something is just not right here. I don’t sing these songs anymore. People - go right on singing them - I won’t stare at you like some Pharisee, but count me out. They just don’t feel right for me to sing anymore. It’s like how I feel about the worst form of cussing.
I sang and sang, until I started realizing just what I was singing. It hit me one day, when we were singing “Gather Us In.” I just stopped. It was during the verse:
“*Not in the dark of buildings confining
Not in some heaven, light years away,
But here in this place, the new light is shining,
Now is the Kingdom, now is the day… *”
I was like ----->
Lord Have Mercy! What am I saying here? Busted my happy singing bubbles right there.
There were more songs, but I don’t know all of their names. One I do know, and that is that “…You and I, are the Bread of Liiiiife.”
“This is our body, This is our blood. A living sign of God in Christ”
Something is just not right here. I don’t sing these songs anymore. People - go right on singing them - I won’t stare at you like some Pharisee, but count me out. They just don’t feel right for me to sing anymore. It’s like how I feel about the worst form of cussing.
Well, I agree with you. But I am a little thick in the diplomatic department. Can you please share what these charitable ways are? Please give me some suggestions.
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BobP123
Guest
I once heard “It’s A Small Small World” as an opening hymn. A whole ten minutes of it on guitars. They should grant us indulgences for listening to this stuff.
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lak611
Guest
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Sarabande
Guest
Yeah, I looked it up after I wrote this to see when it was written. Like I said, it sounded like a song from a 1970s or 1950s broadway show. I know it wasn’t from an actual broadway show, but that and many others do sound like it can be from some show or should be in a Broadway show. I was reading that article from NPM someone posted and the article mentioned that this Let There Be Peace on Earth and Lord of the Dance came from “outside the (liturgical music) culture”.
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Sarabande
Guest
Yes, how sad. I guess it depends on the area. I know if it were in my city the place would be packed, especially if word got around well. I attended an Episcopal mass once because they were doing the Allegri Miserere and Faure’s Requiem. That church was packed and most of the people appeared to be congregant as they went up for their communion.
Also, how many people attend All Soul’s Day mass every year? I ask because it that mass tends to not be as well-attended as All Saints Day on average, from what I’ve experienced over the years. Yes, I’m young, but at least ever since I was a kid.
Faure’s Requiem is one of my favorite along with Durufle’s Requiem. It’s a shame no one is presenting this music on a regular basis. I’m sure it was spiritually beautiful.
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lak611
Guest
I never heard Faure’s Requiem. I will check around next year to see if any churches are doing it. I might even go to an Episcopal church in addition to Catholic Mass (of course, no communion at Episcopal) if they are having Faure’s Requiem and no Catholic churches are.
I would hope more people attend All Saints’ Mass, because it is a Holy Day of Obligation, unlike All Souls’ which is not.
Do you know if there are any links to podcasts of Faure’s Requiem on-line?
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verdigirl
Guest
I’m all for that, but then they better darn well start providing for living wages to be paid to musicians who can handle a higher caliber of music. There is this fallacy that classically trained musicians just fall out of the clouds and take on volunteer posts at parishes just for the fun of it.
I still have student loans to pay off!!!
Want better music at your parish? Figure out a way to jump-start your parish’s stewardship so you can pay for it. We gotta eat too.
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