non-Catholic Christians - "Did You Know"?

[CentralFLJames]

The way I understand it is that the majority of Protestants have two main beliefs in common: scripture alone and faith alone to be saved. Those are their common doctrines, and they believe those doctrines are the most essential. The rest, how they worship, etc., are gravy and not important in the grand scheme of things. The reason there are so many different branches of Protestantism is primarily due to their varying worship preferences.

Good observation - I think most Catholics could accept that these are two of the doctrinal and traditional things that protestants share in common. But let’s be more generous and show additional things that protestants hold in common.

1. Error
2. Tradition
3. Rebellion against Authority
4. Inconsistency

**Error **is clearly a thing held in common since the doctrine of “scripture alone” while on the surface sounding rather benign, benevolent, and simple becomes a doctrinal belief of man that utterly fragments and divides protestants into a legion of conflicted denominations (30,000 or so). Thus through doctrinal error we The Church suffers more destructive power than any single evil minded dictator (or anti-christ) could ever conflict on The Church.

Tradition is seen in the non-biblical practise of embracing “scripture alone”. It also becomes a source of “error” since it is orthogonal to the very notion of “scripture only”. Thus we have a recursive error as well as a blatant manifestation of contraction that proves “scripture alone” is a fallacy. But now that it is become tradition to embrace error and fallacy - there is no way to undo the error as long as tradition of error is held in faith (perversion of faith). This also has an analogy to hypocrisy. And so we see at its root the core sin of humanity - pride.

Rebellion against Papal authority and Catholic Teaching authority is a unifying principal that all Protestants share as a matter of definition. Just as the tenants of reason and rationality dictate that one must accept all of scripture if one accepts any of scripture it becomes impossible to partially accept Papal authority and Catholic Teaching authority without accepting it all. So this common factor makes it impossible for Protestants to self correct themselves. They hold themselves each to be infallible against all reason and current degraded condition. This decisively proves Protestants fallable in the tradition of error so embraced in common and the failure of “scripture alone”.

Inconsistency is seen in the man made doctrinal divisions in Protestant sects and in the utter failure of “scripture only” to be an effective unifying doctrine. Inconsistency is also found in the fact that Protestants all hold to human vices of man (error, rebellion, inconsistency, pride) as if they are sacrament and meritable traditions unto themselves. Thus hypocrisy is born in the interaction of all these vices to become a spiritual force to further divide through false doctrine, error and human sin. Thus inconsistency and hypocrisy become as a cancer that eats and divides the various branches of Protestantism against itself in a way that further separates them from the main Body of Christ (The Catholic Church)

Bottom line - Protestants need to unify their believes and not let pride stand in the way if they discover that the only thing that can unify them and heal them is to abandon the Protestant tradition of rebellion and self-help and re-graft its suffering legions back into The Catholic Church.

Resistance is futile.

James

 

[Tomster]

The way I understand it is that the majority of Protestants have two main beliefs in common: scripture alone and faith alone to be saved. Those are their common doctrines, and they believe those doctrines are the most essential. The rest, how they worship, etc., are gravy and not important in the grand scheme of things. The reason there are so many different branches of Protestantism is primarily due to their varying worship preferences.

When Lt. Columbo, the detective in the rumpled raincoat, was stymied by a homicidal magician, he enlisted the aid of a youngster whose hobby was magic, who told him: “What you have to always remember is, it’s a trick.” Protestantism repudiates the infallibility of the Vicar of Christ, while it puts forth its own false dogmas clothed in infallibilty. The replacement of Revelation with the interpreter of that Revelation, and then the appropriation of the divine authority of Revelation by its interpreter, was absolutely necessary to Luther, and it is no less so to Protestants today.

Let us see how legitimate authority is made to disappear, and self-appointed authority conjured up and put in its place. Like all tricks, this one depends for its success on patter and distraction. At the same time the dogmatic pronouncement of some “reformer” is being recited, the speaker points away from himself to the Bible. The switch is concealed behind a rebuke to those who might quarrel with this revised Revelation, “It is true. God cannot lie.” The conjurer is not himself conscious of any deceit; he is merely repeating a trick which deceives others just as it deceived him. Witnessing, preaching, Bible study - it is all the same. They simply announce the opinions they have received through Protestant tradition and quote a few texts from here and there, while holding up a Bible. This conjures up the requisite air of authority. This conceals the truth from souls locked in error.

Chesterton said, “Christianity has not been weighed and found wanting; it has been weighed and found hard.” This is part of the explanation for the appeal of altered Christianity found in Protestantism. It is easy. Then there is Protestant oral tradition, which tells the Protestant that the Catholic Church is the one place he must not go. It bars the door of the Church to those who, free of its influence, would read the Bible, history and reality with clear eyes and accept the Faith in order to embrace the truth.

 

[1234]

Catholics should be prepared and non-Catholics need to open their hearts to conversion before its too late. We get one major sign shortly before the lights go out permanently for 75% of the earth’s population.

I would plan for your retirement anyway, Mangy.

You might be wrong and up a creek.

 

[1234]

1: If you bow down in worship to statues, how is that not idolatry?

2: Ah…So Scripture (from which Augustine got “that horrendous predestination thing”) is false?

3: Calvinists teach DOUBLE predestination, which is unbiblical.

I think that Calvinists *used *to teach predestination and its variants. I don’t think that Presbyterians teach this now. Extraordinarily vicious doctrine–you’re born to be damned.

 

[Protestant101]

The way I understand it is that the majority of Protestants have two main beliefs in common: scripture alone and faith alone to be saved. Those are their common doctrines, and they believe those doctrines are the most essential. The rest, how they worship, etc., are gravy and not important in the grand scheme of things. The reason there are so many different branches of Protestantism is primarily due to their varying worship preferences.

This is how it is with some Protestants; but the correct view, which others have is not “by faith alone.” That is not supported in the Bible. Look at the text closely and see what it really says:

Eph 2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

Faith never has to stand alone; for then it would be “of yourselves” that we are saved. The “grace” portion of the being saved, (Eph.2:8), rather than excluding the most important component of Christianity, includes the cross of Christ - His death, as the object of the “by faith.”

If a given doctrine does not point to “Christ and Him crucified;” then it is not a Christian doctrine.

 

[Righteousone]

Ok, so all you can do is talk about the pedophile of the Catholic church. IT HAS NOTHNG TO DO WITH THE FAITH. Protestants love to aggravate with this topic. Satan was predicted to come into the church and start right at the top. This has already been predicted in the past that this may happen and it did.
Being from Boston, I knew Cardinal Law, what he did was wrong by shuffling priests around, but he had a heavy burden with this and I feel bad for him. He really is a good man.
There have been so many priests that have accused of that were innocent. The lawyers had a field day with this.
In 2005, there were 5 cases of sexual misconduct among 42,000 priests. No attorney has made more money than Jeff Anderson. It was estimated by the Associated Press that he’d won 60 million in settlements from Catholic dioceses.
What about the head of the Evangelical church who came out gay?
What about on January 10, 2005 a Brooklyn Yeshuva being slapped with it’s 4th sex lawsuit, the latest involving a “highly regarded rabbi”?
They’ll crucify the Catholic church though…
Get over the priest scandal, it’s old and has nothing to do with Christ himself.

 

[onenow1]

Hi,All
At a recent Mass in Ocean City, NJ, the priest made some wise observations. He told us there would not be world peace until there was peace among world religions. Therefore, he said, we should be very careful before criticizing other religions.

Even though our Church is the instrument that Christ established for us to come to know Him, God can and does work through mysterious ways outside the boundaries of the Church. God can work goodness through these individuals.

The world religions all have common enemies such as injustice, poverty and disease. When we work together to overcome such things, we can have confidence we are working with God and not against Him.

But if we get the idea we are supposed to destroy people of another creed, we should know this is not coming ourGod of peace.

So, learn about the religions of others, praise the efforts of others whose goals are consistent with the Gospel, pray, and make peace. Do not hide our faith in Jesus, but remember that the actions and the compassion of Christians, rather than the words, will bear the greatest witness.

Peace, OneNow1

 

[Protestant101]

Ok, so all you can do is talk about the pedophile of the Catholic church. IT HAS NOTHNG TO DO WITH THE FAITH. Protestants love to aggravate with this topic. Satan was predicted to come into the church and start right at the top. This has already been predicted in the past that this may happen and it did.
Being from Boston, I knew Cardinal Law, what he did was wrong by shuffling priests around, but he had a heavy burden with this and I feel bad for him. He really is a good man.
There have been so many priests that have accused of that were innocent. The lawyers had a field day with this.
In 2005, there were 5 cases of sexual misconduct among 42,000 priests. No attorney has made more money than Jeff Anderson. It was estimated by the Associated Press that he’d won 60 million in settlements from Catholic dioceses.
What about the head of the Evangelical church who came out gay?
What about on January 10, 2005 a Brooklyn Yeshuva being slapped with it’s 4th sex lawsuit, the latest involving a “highly regarded rabbi”?
They’ll crucify the Catholic church though…
Get over the priest scandal, it’s old and has nothing to do with Christ himself.

It’s kind of hard to “get over” something that is still going on in some places, in varying degrees, so that’s not a solution to that concern. It is worth noting though that Catholics are not being especially singled out for persecution related to abuse law suits. It is happening to many others, lawyers and the press have an equal “field-day” with this kind of thing, no matter where it’s found.

I see some Catholic leadership as being much more accountable for their church’s actions, or lack thereof, than to just get defensive, and go on the counter-attack. You should follow the example of your leaders in this matter.

I have a lot of respect for church leaders who are accountable to the church, and to the public. No matter what church they are from…

 

[Jimmy_B]

Actually Baptists ARE born again and fundamentalists. Why are you seperating them?

I do not believe that all Baptist refer to themselves to strangers, Catholics or to others as “Born Agian Christians”, where Born Again Christians do. Born Again Chriatians to not claim to be “Baptist”. I think you are confusing a particular belief with the title of a particular religion.

I’m sorry, but bringing that up is akin to Protestants using Pedafile priests against us.

This doesn’t offend me, this really has nothing to do with Catholicism or with the Roman Catholic Church, which has been here for more than two thousand years, is world-wide and has over one billion members. This in no way effects my Roman Catholic Faith.

The difference here is that the Roman Catholic Church forbids pedophilia and always has. Unfortunately, since our members are taken from the human race; we have had those who have sinned and broken the “rules”.

This has been mostly do to the effect of American liberalism, particularly in the North-Eastern United States, on a very small percentage of our clergy in past years.

The Roman Catholic Church is currently addressing the problem you speak of. It was a problem found almost entirely in the “American” Catholic Church and in ‘liberal dioceses’” in the United States.

Where, on the other hand, it is the official church policy of some “Protestant”, non-Catholic Christian religions to allow persons who are openly gay, and in some cases, living with a gay “partner” in a gay relationship, to become ministers and Bishops.

Additionally there do exist some non-Catholic Christian ministers who openly perform ‘Gay Marriages” and they are members of a church or religion where this is not forbidden and in some cases, encouraged.

I hope that this helps,

God Bless

 

[Protestant101]

Where, on the other hand, it is the official church policy of some “Protestant”, non-Catholic Christian religions to allow persons who are openly gay, and in some cases, living with a gay “partner” in a gay relationship, to become ministers and Bishops.

Additionally there do exist some non-Catholic Christian ministers who openly perform ‘Gay Marriages” and they are members of a church or religion where this is not forbidden and in some cases, encouraged.

I hope that this helps,

God Bless

“Gay marriage,” and the types of crimes involved in sex-abuse of clergy, currently before the courts, are two different things.

As I type this note, the Catholic Diocese of Fairbanks, Alaska, plans to file for bankruptcy after failed talks with an insurer and mounting legal expenses from clergy sex-abuse claims, becoming the sixth U.S. diocese to seek Chapter 11 protection.

Most of the people who express outrage at this kind of sex-abuse crime are nowhere near the category you try to put them in.

 

[Jimmy_B]

“Gay marriage,” and the types of crimes involved in sex-abuse of clergy, currently before the courts, are two different things.

As I type this note, the Catholic Diocese of Fairbanks, Alaska, plans to file for bankruptcy after failed talks with an insurer and mounting legal expenses from clergy sex-abuse claims, becoming the sixth U.S. diocese to seek Chapter 11 protection.

Most of the people who express outrage at this kind of sex-abuse crime are nowhere near the category you try to put them in.

Hello Protestant101,

What Category did I put them in? Abortion is “legal”, what category would you put abortion into? In your opinion does the legal status of any sin, make any difference? In my opinion, they are both horrific crimes.

Homosexuality and liberal views towards homosexuality lead to the pedophilia problem in the Catholic Church. Not all homosexuals are pedophiles but all pedophiles whose victims are the same gender are homosexual, both are sexually deviant behaviors, with pedophilia obviously being worse. Although one behavior (homosexuality) is legal now, from a Christian standpoint, it does not make it right.

I find it amazing that the most liberal in our society, when it comes to homosexuality, are the most anti-Catholic, when it’s this kind of thinking which got so many into trouble in the first place. I think there are many anti-Catholics, who in some sort of sick way, are happy this happen to the Catholic Church. I believe this is why it is brought up so often.

Your point is not relevant, because the Roman Catholic Church has never condoned pedophilia. It has always been considered a crime, a mortal sin and a very serious sin by the Roman Catholic Church and by 99.999 % of all Catholics.

It is not Church doctrine; it is in conflict with Church doctrine.

I believe, if you research the problem that you are describing in Canada, you will learn that it originated in a liberal Catholic dioceses and seminary school, located, most likely in the Northeastern portion of the United States, some 30-40 years ago.

This problem originated with a handful of seminary schools and dioceses, where there were members who had a liberal view towards homosexual behavior. These members were influenced, by the liberal culture and environment from which they came from. This created a situation were “problem” candidates for the priesthood were admitted, when under normal circumstance they should have been denied admittance.

This behavior, by a very statistically small few, was in conflict with the Roman Catholic Church and because of these individuals; it has had a devastating effect on the rest of the Church, this in not fair to the rest of the members of the Roman Catholic Church. The inappropriate behavior, including criminal behavior by a few members in not representative of an entire organization. Keep in mind that the Catholic Church has over 2500 Dioceses, and over one billion members.

What I was addressing, is the fact that there is a difference between the official beliefs, rules and doctrines of a particular religion and the behavior, criminal or otherwise by its members.

Here is a hypothetical example; If a policeman while on duty committed pedophilia, in violation of police department policy and the law, “his” police department would most certainly be sued, due in part to “big pockets”, after all the police department has more money than the officer.

This however, does not mean that the entire police department or its members are representative of the criminal offence committed by another member.

On the other hand, there does exist religions whose official doctrine is in conflict with God’s laws and in some cases in conflict with secular law.

My Roman Catholic Faith will never be affected by the bad or criminal behavior by other members, who by their own behavior, are not by definition, Catholic.

Thank you for your post and may God bless you.

 

[Protestant101]

Hello Protestant101,

I find it amazing that the most liberal in our society, when it comes to homosexuality, are the most anti-Catholic, when it’s this kind of thinking which got so many into trouble in the first place. I think there are many anti-Catholics, who in some sort of sick way, are happy this happen to the Catholic Church. I believe this is why it is brought up so often.

Your point is not relevant, because the Roman Catholic Church has never condoned pedophilia. It has always been considered a crime, a mortal sin and a very serious sin by the Roman Catholic Church and by 99.999 % of all Catholics.

Thank you for your post and may God bless you.

First of all; I did not condone homosexuality in any post of this forum. My point is very relevant because you; like many others are very defensive about the issue, as it occurs within your ranks. I have seen this defensive posture many times. (not just with Catholics). Point to someone else’s sin, to make yours seem not as bad…“You can’t accuse us of sex abuse, because look at how you condone gay marriage…”

All I am saying is that you are comparing apples with oranges. One of the things I am trying to teach my kids is to just say it like it is. If you are wrong, say “I was wrong;” and don’t add such a plethora of buts to it. Apologies or confessions mean nothing when you add that little “but” after it. If Churches and church members would be more accountable, there would be no law suits today.

The title of this thread is “Christians did you know?” I think I will ask this question now.

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

did you know that one of the calls of the reformation was “always reforming”? that means that we don’t just take what luther says as if he’s the pope, but we are constantly trying to seek the truth.

benal fan, you just gave me a revelation about all these forums and why Christianity is the way it is.
Catholics believe we already possess the fulness of Truth. And Protestants and non catholics are still seeking the Truth. That explains why the many different doctrines of Protestant and noncatholic christians, that they are constantly seeking Truth, until they come to the accurate knowledge of what Jesus taught and the Apostles handed down to the Catholic church, thats why when a Protestant converts to Catholicism they realize they are home, and they dont need to seek any further. This seeking of Truth is why Many Protestants are constantly changing churches and denominations. Thank bengal fan your my hero.

 

[Jimmy_B]

First of all; I did not condone homosexuality in any post of this forum. My point is very relevant because you; like many others are very defensive about the issue, as it occurs within your ranks. I have seen this defensive posture many times. (not just with Catholics). Point to someone else’s sin, to make yours seem not as bad…“You can’t accuse us of sex abuse, because look at how you condone gay marriage…”

All I am saying is that you are comparing apples with oranges. One of the things I am trying to teach my kids is to just say it like it is. If you are wrong, say “I was wrong;” and don’t add such a plethora of buts to it. Apologies or confessions mean nothing when you add that little “but” after it. If Churches and church members would be more accountable, there would be no law suits today.

The title of this thread is “Christians did you know?” I think I will ask this question now.

Hello again Protestant101,

I never posted anything that said that you supported homosexuality. I have never addressed you specifically or “your” particular religion, specifically. This is because; I do not know what you believe, other than what you post here. Someone telling me that they are “Protestant” does not mean that I have a clue to what they believe. “Protestants” or non-Catholic Christian beliefs are all over the map. If you go back and look at my posts to will see I posted that "some “Protestants”…not “all Protestants…”

If your particular church doesn’t support, for instance, “Gay Marriage”, then say so. If it does, then defend your churches position. It is as simple as that.

Your point is still not relevant, because the criminal behavior that you are describing is not and has not ever been condoned by the Roman Catholic Church.

Don’t confuse my defense of my Catholic Faith with defending pedophiles. I hate pedophiles and I use to put them behind bars where they belong. You don’t honestly believe that there exist Catholics here at CAF who condone such criminal behavior, do you? If you are implying that pedophilia does not affect other religions or other occupations, then you are sadly misinformed.

I never said that I was apposed to reporting any inappropriate behavior by any of our members, in fact I encourage you to do so, so that we can weed out the bad members.

As long as any large organization takes its members from the human race, their will always be members, who from time to time will get into trouble and there will always be lawsuits, that is a sad fact of life.

You won’t find a single Catholic who will disagree with you on this point, so stop pretending like we Catholics” support the criminal behavior by a few of our members, when we don’t. You are still confusing official Church doctrine with behavior by those who are acting outside of Church doctrine.

Some “Protestant” churches perform ‘Gay Marriages”, acting within their official church doctrine, the Catholic Church, does not.

If your Church doctrine is sound, you won’t hear a peep out of me. The Catholic Church has sound doctrine, if you disagree please explain yourself, one point at a time.

Take Care,

 

[Protestant101]

Hello again Protestant101,

Don’t confuse my defense of my Catholic Faith with defending pedophiles. I hate pedophiles and I use to put them behind bars where they belong. You don’t honestly believe that there exist Catholics here at CAF who condone such criminal behavior, do you? If you are implying that pedophilia does not affect other religions or other occupations, then you are sadly misinformed.

If your Church doctrine is sound, you won’t hear a peep out of me. The Catholic Church has sound doctrine, if you disagree please explain yourself, one point at a time.

Take Care,

You don’t really sound as though you are condoning criminal behavior, but you strive too hard to make excuses for the Church, and it does not come across as the best response.

Anyways; this subject is a bit of a digression from the topic at hand; it is called “Non-Catholic Christians - Did You Know;” so why don’t you just tell me the most important thing I need to “know” and we will take it from there.

 

[mangy_dog]

If Christ is The Good Shepherd, The Pope isn’t.

There’s a little “icon” that is used here on CAF. It is of one those round thingys banging its head on a brick wall. In this context - think of the brick wall as the church built by Christ on the first Pope Peter the Apostle.
Same church, many popes later to “de Gloriae Olivae” better known as Pope Benedict XVI.

The little man banging his head on the wall???..well, you - and others like you who will eventually return (hopefully) to the one, true church that Christ intended to exist after His ascension into heaven.
Pax Domini sit semper vobiscum.

 

[East_Anglican]

Has anyone, anywhere within the many different branches of Anglicanism ever infallibly stated that it was not true?

Would it matter if they did or did not?

Please tell me you are not making an infallible statement.

Please tell us that you are just giving us your personal opinion.

The logic behind the imaculate conception is that it had to be for Jesus to be without sin.

Follow this logic and then Saint Ann had to have been born of imaculate conception too. Then her mother would had to have been born of imaculate conception, then her mother, then her mother all the way back to someone being born of Eve before the fall.

This is fanciful nonsense.

 

[East_Anglican]

Where does it say that “baptism is a sign of the new covenant?”

We are buried with him in baptism and raised up again in Christ. It is no longer us but Christ in us. We become one with Christ like a husband and wife become one. Marriage is a covenant.

 

[East_Anglican]

1: If you bow down in worship to statues, how is that not idolatry?

It is idolatry.

2: Ah…So Scripture (from which Augustine got “that horrendous predestination thing”) is false?

3: Calvinists teach DOUBLE predestination, which is unbiblical.

It is how the scriptue is interpreted.

 

[East_Anglican]

Good observation - I think most Catholics could accept that these are two of the doctrinal and traditional things that protestants share in common. But let’s be more generous and show additional things that protestants hold in common.

1. Error
2. Tradition
3. Rebellion against Authority
4. Inconsistency

**Error **is clearly a thing held in common since the doctrine of “scripture alone” while on the surface sounding rather benign, benevolent, and simple becomes a doctrinal belief of man that utterly fragments and divides protestants into a legion of conflicted denominations (30,000 or so). Thus through doctrinal error we The Church suffers more destructive power than any single evil minded dictator (or anti-christ) could ever conflict on The Church.

Tradition is seen in the non-biblical practise of embracing “scripture alone”. It also becomes a source of “error” since it is orthogonal to the very notion of “scripture only”. Thus we have a recursive error as well as a blatant manifestation of contraction that proves “scripture alone” is a fallacy. But now that it is become tradition to embrace error and fallacy - there is no way to undo the error as long as tradition of error is held in faith (perversion of faith). This also has an analogy to hypocrisy. And so we see at its root the core sin of humanity - pride.

Rebellion against Papal authority and Catholic Teaching authority is a unifying principal that all Protestants share as a matter of definition. Just as the tenants of reason and rationality dictate that one must accept all of scripture if one accepts any of scripture it becomes impossible to partially accept Papal authority and Catholic Teaching authority without accepting it all. So this common factor makes it impossible for Protestants to self correct themselves. They hold themselves each to be infallible against all reason and current degraded condition. This decisively proves Protestants fallable in the tradition of error so embraced in common and the failure of “scripture alone”.

Inconsistency is seen in the man made doctrinal divisions in Protestant sects and in the utter failure of “scripture only” to be an effective unifying doctrine. Inconsistency is also found in the fact that Protestants all hold to human vices of man (error, rebellion, inconsistency, pride) as if they are sacrament and meritable traditions unto themselves. Thus hypocrisy is born in the interaction of all these vices to become a spiritual force to further divide through false doctrine, error and human sin. Thus inconsistency and hypocrisy become as a cancer that eats and divides the various branches of Protestantism against itself in a way that further separates them from the main Body of Christ (The Catholic Church)

Bottom line - Protestants need to unify their believes and not let pride stand in the way if they discover that the only thing that can unify them and heal them is to abandon the Protestant tradition of rebellion and self-help and re-graft its suffering legions back into The Catholic Church.

Resistance is futile.

James

You seem such a bigot, I’m not goiung to answer that.