Non Catholic Interpretation of Matthew 16:18-19

[elvisman]

Uh-oh, looks like we’re going into overtime No game, set, match here! You cannot say with any certainty that He was speaking about purgatory! 40-love

Then WHAT was he talking about if it’s not heaven OR hell?

PLEASE give an answer this time instead of beating around the bush as you usually do.

 

[1beleevr]

Catholics DO go to God. The difference is that we do it in the manner prescribed by God. We don’t reject the way HE set it up.

Did you ever stop to think, that when David and Moses and Elijah went to the Lord, and ask for forgiveness, they were alone?

 

[elvisman]

Did you ever stop to think, that when David and Moses and Elijah went to the Lord, and ask for forgiveness, they were alone?

So have I.
**I go to the priest when I have commited mortal sin ****(1 John 5:16) ****because Jesus told the Apostles that they had the power to bind my sins or to forgive them (Matt. 16:19, 18:18, John 20:23). **

They passed on that power to their successors (Acts 1:20-26).

 

[1beleevr]

PRECISELY.
That’s because there ARE exceptions like babies, the severly retarded - AND Mary, the Ark of the New Covenant.

Will give you some latitude on the first two, but Mary, neing born of a woman, awas born into sin!(No ezekiel 44, please), it means something else!

 

[1beleevr]

So have I.
I go to the priest when I have commited mortal sin (1 John 5:16) because Jesus told the Apostles that they had the power to bind my sins or to forgive them (Matt. 16:19, 18:18, John 20:23).

**They passed on that power to their successors **(Acts 1:20-26).

So even when David had that man killed, he went to God aone? And supposedly the power was passed on to successors!

 

[1beleevr]

Then WHAT was he talking about if it’s not heaven OR hell?

PLEASE give an answer this time instead of beating around the bush as you usually do.

When it comes to blaspheming the Holy Spirit, it really doesn’t matter wher you are at, there is no forgiveness! So it’s either Heaven or Hell, not purgatory!

 

[PRmerger]

But being a Christian does not preclude you from going to prison

Exactly.

Last time I checked, people do not go to the "big house’, for drinking and carousing;

Do you know how many of those in prison were impaired by alcohol when they committed a crime?

 

[PRmerger]

When it comes to blaspheming the Holy Spirit, it really doesn’t matter wher you are at, there is no forgiveness! So it’s either Heaven or Hell, not purgatory!

You are confusing what purgatory is. It’s not a 3rd destination. If it’s heaven one is destined for, and there’s still something unclean about your soul, then it’s purgatory *first, *then heaven.

You can see why nothing unclean could enter heaven; yet how many when they die are completely immaculate?

 

[Nicea325]

No, silly, His church is all believers, not just one group! When you see a sign that says:“The church has left thebuilding,” itmeans all the believers have went home! You know, like that Casting Crowns song, “If We are The Body?”

Oh I see, Jesus Church is all believers,but still teach different teachings and be divided? Sorry,but no where does the 'body of believers" include divisions,factions, and conflicting doctrines. You are simply clumping all the mass divisions and chaos of non-Catholic churches and trying to justify it as Christ Church. Nope! Jesus taught no such thing or nonsense.

 

[Nicea325]

The next world would have to be Heaven, wher there would be no need for forgiveness!

And what makes you believe you already have a one way ticket to heaven?

 

[PRmerger]

Oh I see, Jesus Church is all believers,but still teach different teachings and be divided? Sorry,but no where does the 'body of believers" include divisions,factions, and conflicting doctrines. You are simply clumping all the mass divisions and chaos of non-Catholic churches and trying to justify it as Christ Church. Nope! Jesus taught no such belief.

Indeed. That is a paradigm created by the evil one, the master of lies and confusion.

Now, because of his influence, there are millions of Christians who can’t agree on basic Christian doctrines.

Let’s just take baptism. It would seem that what Scripture says about it would be quite simple and clear.

Yet, from these very same Scriptures there are those who swear that
-baptism is an ordinance
-no! baptism is just an outward sign
-no! baptism does nothing except get you wet
-no! baptism is a sacrament

-baptism must be done by immersion
-no! baptism must be done in a river
-no! baptism can be done by sprinkling

-baptism must be done in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit
-no! baptism must be done in Jesus name only

-baptism must be done at the age of consent
-no! baptism must be done as an adult
-no! baptism of infants is a must

Soooo sad that there is so much chaos and confusion.

From the Author of Chaos and Confusion who whispers: you can be your own authority on Scripture. You are your own pope. Read God’s Word and determine what it means yourself.

And so many have bought into it. :sad_yes:

 

[Nicea325]

Then why would Jesus be talking about being forgiven in the next world - hmmm??
He’s not talking about heaven OR hell, because there is no forgiveness in EITHER place. He’s talking about purgation.

Game. Set. MATCH. /QUOTE

Exactly! Elvisman he sees it, he rather stick to his pride,then to admit he is wrong.You see it is more convenient for one to sitck to their errors and then accepting a correction.

 

[Nicea325]

Indeed. That is a paradigm created by the evil one, the master of lies and confusion.

Now, because of his influence, there are millions of Christians who can’t agree on basic Christian doctrines.

Let’s just take baptism. It would seem that what Scripture says about it would be quite simple and clear.

Yet, from these very same Scriptures there are those who swear that
-baptism is an ordinance
-no! baptism is just an outward sign
-no! baptism does nothing except get you wet
-no! baptism is a sacrament

-baptism must be done by immersion
-no! baptism must be done in a river
-no! baptism can be done by sprinkling

-baptism must be done in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit
-no! baptism must be done in Jesus name only

-baptism must be done at the age of consent
-no! baptism must be done as an adult
-no! baptism of infants is a must

Soooo sad that there is so much chaos and confusion.

From the Author of Chaos and Confusion who whispers: you can be your own authority on Scripture. You are your own pope. Read God’s Word and determine what it means yourself.

And so many have bought into it. :sad_yes:

Exactly! God is not the author of confusion,but the dude downstairs and humanity.

Oh but PRmerger, I guess you are not aware Jesus does not care,because it is a matter of application? What foolishness.

 

[adrift]

It’s too bad that Paul isn’t alive so we could ask him ourselves From reading the epistle, it would seem that he is speaking about ALL who are born of the seed of a man(Jesus was born of the seed of a woman).

I hope your not serious:nope:

 

[elvisman]

When it comes to blaspheming the Holy Spirit, it really doesn’t matter wher you are at, there is no forgiveness! So it’s either Heaven or Hell, not purgatory!

The Catholic church - along with every single reputable Protestant scholar including Hank Hanagraff, John MacArthur, Norman Geisler and R. C. Sproul understand blasphemy against the Holy Spirit to mean final impenitence. In other words, it is a final rejection of god.

EVERY sin can be forgiven as long as you have life within you.

 

[elvisman]

So even when David had that man killed, he went to God aone?

The priests during Davids time didn’t have the power that the priesthood has now. God didn’t tell them that they had the power to forgive or retain sin like he did the Apostles.

And supposedly the power was passed on to successors!

Hey - if you reject the Apostolic Succession spoken of in Acts 1 - that’s your problem.

Hmmmm . . . and I thought you said you held fast to ALL of God’s word . . .

 

[elvisman]

Will give you some latitude on the first two, but Mary, neing born of a woman, awas born into sin!(No ezekiel 44, please), it means something else!

**Boy - you certainly change your theological viewpoints pretty easily.
Earlier, you told me that ALL have sinned and now you’re saying that there may be exceptions. BUT YOU’RE limiting God to which exceptions he should allow.

As for Ezekiel 44 that is a prpophecy about Mary’s perpetual virginity and has nothing to do with her sinlessness.

 

[elvisman]

I hope your not serious:nope:

Sadly - he IS serious.
When you shoot from the hip, you’re gonna miss most of your targets . . .

 

[Richard_Kastner]

**Can you show me *where ***it says this in the Bible??
Can you show me where it says that all believers are part of Christ’s ONE Church? Can you?

Eph.2
15Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

16And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

17And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.

18For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.

19Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

20And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

21In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

22In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

Eph.3
10To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

11According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

12In whom we have boldness and access with confidence by the faith of him.

13Wherefore I desire that ye faint not at my tribulations for you, which is your glory.

14For this cause I bow my knees unto the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ,

15Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named,

16That he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, to be strengthened with might by his Spirit in the inner man;

17That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,

18May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height;

19And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God.

20Now unto him that is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us,

21Unto him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus throughout all ages, world without end. Amen.

Eph.4
11And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

13Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

14That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

15But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

16From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

 

[Richard_Kastner]

You are confusing what purgatory is. It’s not a 3rd destination. If it’s heaven one is destined for, and there’s still something unclean about your soul, then it’s purgatory *first, *then heaven.

You can see why nothing unclean could enter heaven; yet how many when they die are completely immaculate?

When you believe in Christ you become perfect.

Eph.4
11And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

13Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

14That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

15But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

16From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.