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Ric
Guest
You may claim that the Roman Catholic church is the only universal church in the world, but that does not make it so.
And yes, I understand the “rites” et al.
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And yes, I understand the “rites” et al.
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mrS4ntA
Guest
Might I ask your view on this? What qualities of the Church, as understood by you, seem to make her not unified, or universal, in that sense? I’m really curious. thanks
God Bless,
S4ntA
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Pax
Guest
Your point is well taken. It would have been much better for me to say that we are “separated brothers and sisters in Christ.” I apologize for the wording in that part of my statement. My main point of concern, however, still remains. We, as Christians, lack the unity that Jesus prayed for, and that is a serious problem.Pax, It may divided according to you, but as far as Im concerned I am part of the body of Christ. Sorry ,you cant take it away.
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Ric
Guest
The true “Universal Church” is made up of every believer in Jesus Christ alone for their salvation and obey Him as their Lord!
Are there believers like that in the Roman Catholic church? Yes!
Are there believers like that in the Southern Baptist church? Yes!
Are there believers like that in the Methodist church? Yes!
Are there believers like that in the Lutheran church? Yes!
etc…
But the Roman Catholic church can not lay claim on being “the” Universal Church!
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Little_Mary
Guest
How did you come to this decision?
P
Pax
Guest
Ric, you not only made the above statement, but in a previous post you stated, “I am catholic (universal)…”. By your own logic, your claiming to be catholic doesn’t make it so!
Your statements concerning how you simply stick with Jesus, but reject His church intrique me. Your situation is like the old joke about the guy sitting on a roof top during a horrendous flood. He was strong in his faith and believed that God would save him from his peril. Eventually he was swept down river and drowned. Upon reaching heaven he asked God why he hadn’t saved him from the flood. God answered him with the following: “What are you talking about? I sent a fisherman in a boat to help you and even sent a Search and Rescue helicopter but you refused to accept their help!” God sent the rescue party but the man had his own ideas about how God would save him. He didn’t accept that which God provided him.
Jesus tells us in Matthew 16:18 that He was establishing His “church.” There is only one church! If Jesus gave us a church and He gave the keys of the kingdom to Peter, then He did it for us. 1Timothy 3:15 refers to the church “as the pillar and bulwark of the truth.” Now you can ignore what God has done and what He has given to us. You can rely on yourself to be your own “pillar and bulwark of the truth.” And yes you can be like the man sitting on the roof during flood not realizing that God has provided you with one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church.
I would suggest you read a book called Jesus, Peter, and the Keys. It will help you understand the church, the papacy, and why Jesus left us a sheperd.
Jesus prayed for unity among the believers, and he prayed to the Father that we would be one as He and the Father are one. Pray on that set of verses in the Gospel of John and try to figure out how your reliance on yourself and scripture alone will help you accomplish that unity. The Holy Spirit works in all of us, but the Holy Spirit does not cause disunity. The Holy Spirit guides the one, holy, catholic and apostolic church and has kept the flock unified for over two thousand years. This is an amazing and beautiful work of Christ in our midst. No other church has the credentials or bona-fides to make that claim. And interestingly enough, no other church makes the claim.
I find it very odd that you as an individual makes the claim for yourself.
I apologize if this seems harsh, but I think these are legitimate points.
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Little_Mary
Guest
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Ric
Guest
Little Mary:
2 Corinthians 6:16 What agreement is there between the temple of God and idols? For we are the temple of the living God. As God has said: “I will live with them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people.” (NIV)
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Little_Mary
Guest
Pax, I totally agree with you regarding this entire post - I deleted some of it here…I’m new to the forum so I’m not sure about protocol. ANYWAY, I hope that Ric has come here with an open mind. He is our brother in Christ, and hopefully he will come away from this with a lot to think about - at the very least.
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Little_Mary
Guest
That’s a nice reference, but I don’t see how it answers my question.
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Little_Mary
Guest
Ric, I am fascinated by your replies posted here. There is website - www.biblechristiansociety.com - from there you can order several tapes - one in particular is entitled One Church which explains, using the bible and nothing else, Our Savior’s intention for His Catholic church. I would be interested to hear your opinion of this audio tape after you’ve listened to it. The site rotates free tapes, if this particular one is not free at this time, the cost is minimal, about $8. Would you be interested in doing something like that?
S
Shari
Guest
Universial meaning open for all nations and races of people and the only one traceable back to Jesus. So yes it can.
S
Shari
Guest
Whose interpretation of the Gospel?
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Elizabeth
Guest
I attend a very solid, ‘charismatic’ and very Catholic Church but have not yet been received into full communion with the Church. I have been a Christian for 14 years, being a member of non-denominational Christian churches during that time, all charismatic. I have gradually become aware of the **true riches and ** depth of Christianity within the Catholic Faith and Church, particularly within the Eucharist. It is wonderful for me to have so many inconsistencies ironed out and questions answered; to know too that there is accountability within the ‘leadership’ on Earth, ultimately culminating in the Pope’s relationship with the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit.
The family of God seems even more so a family; the ties deeper, beyond subjective feeling and knowledge. The emphasis placed on family values, surrender to God and to Church authority, facing suffering head on, really walking out our faith; it is so reassuring and it stands out in the world. It is salt and it is light.
In Matthew 5, 17-20, Jesus cautions (amongst other things) his listeners, “Do not suppose that I have come to abolish the Law and the prophets; I did not come to abolish, but to complete.” [fulfill] He continues to exhort his listeners to *true holiness * and scrupulous morals and behaviour. Later (in Matt. 22) He shows how the Law and the Prophets ‘hang on’ the first and second greatest commands - to love God with all your heart, soul and mind and to love your neighbor as yourself. Later still (John 13 & 15) He gives his disciples a new command, to love one another as He has loved them. He tells them also -“You are my friends if you do what I command”.
**Love for God and each other, holiness, obedience ** :Inextricably, they comprise our journey of faith together. **This ** is why I love the Catholic Church, because it lives this as the body of Christ, the family of God. It shares the profound, supernatural bond of Christ’s own body, blood soul and divinity and submits itself to the Teaching and Tradition of the Church for the good of *each * member and *all * members - and beyond that, to the wider society and the world. It demonstrates the love for and the unity with one another which Jesus said would let the world know that we are his disciples and that the Father sent Him (John 13 and 17 respectively).
This last year I have had to learn what surrendering, really surrendering to God is truly about. I don’t always practise this but I do know in the deepest part of my being that this is the best and wisest thing I can ever do - for myself, my family and yes, for the Church. The Catholic Church, even though mistakes and sin have occured within, has embodied this - the surrender in holiness and obedience to Christ and to one another: Just as Jesus taught and then Paul re-emphasised, so it is built in to, and manifest in the Catholic Church.
I have come to realise that the Catholic Faith is actually the answer to all my longings and to the dissatisfactions I have had with Christian churches not having the fullness and depth of life with God and each other that you long for and hope for and expect: Even with powerfully real experiences of the Holy Spirit and times of deep contemplation and euphoria, I still found it to be true that ‘there has to be more’ (and there are a surprising number of Christian worship-songs which express this need, this cry!) I really thought it was simply a longing that I could only expect to be fulfilled in heaven. But then, AMAZING, I met the REAL Catholic Church and fell in love with her. I have had my agonies and my times of desperation and confusion over some teachings, and then our wonderful Lord and Savior has created in me a deep understanding in my spirit, even in my body I would venture to say, which has had me in tears and songs both of absolute
joy. It is a sense of profound peace, of completeness; of finally knowing.
I hope that any others motivated to look more closely at the catholic Church will press on with courage, surrendering to God to receive His leading. He is so faithful and good to us.
Well, I had only intended to write a short paragraph but I couldn’t hold back!
I am hoping to come into the Church 2005 Easter Vigil. There are some circumstances beyond me which might make it wise to wait. Might. I need to know what God wants me to do in my situation so I would be grateful for your prayers - for my husband and children also.
Thankyou! Peace be with you!
The family of God seems even more so a family; the ties deeper, beyond subjective feeling and knowledge. The emphasis placed on family values, surrender to God and to Church authority, facing suffering head on, really walking out our faith; it is so reassuring and it stands out in the world. It is salt and it is light.
In Matthew 5, 17-20, Jesus cautions (amongst other things) his listeners, “Do not suppose that I have come to abolish the Law and the prophets; I did not come to abolish, but to complete.” [fulfill] He continues to exhort his listeners to *true holiness * and scrupulous morals and behaviour. Later (in Matt. 22) He shows how the Law and the Prophets ‘hang on’ the first and second greatest commands - to love God with all your heart, soul and mind and to love your neighbor as yourself. Later still (John 13 & 15) He gives his disciples a new command, to love one another as He has loved them. He tells them also -“You are my friends if you do what I command”.
**Love for God and each other, holiness, obedience ** :Inextricably, they comprise our journey of faith together. **This ** is why I love the Catholic Church, because it lives this as the body of Christ, the family of God. It shares the profound, supernatural bond of Christ’s own body, blood soul and divinity and submits itself to the Teaching and Tradition of the Church for the good of *each * member and *all * members - and beyond that, to the wider society and the world. It demonstrates the love for and the unity with one another which Jesus said would let the world know that we are his disciples and that the Father sent Him (John 13 and 17 respectively).
This last year I have had to learn what surrendering, really surrendering to God is truly about. I don’t always practise this but I do know in the deepest part of my being that this is the best and wisest thing I can ever do - for myself, my family and yes, for the Church. The Catholic Church, even though mistakes and sin have occured within, has embodied this - the surrender in holiness and obedience to Christ and to one another: Just as Jesus taught and then Paul re-emphasised, so it is built in to, and manifest in the Catholic Church.
I have come to realise that the Catholic Faith is actually the answer to all my longings and to the dissatisfactions I have had with Christian churches not having the fullness and depth of life with God and each other that you long for and hope for and expect: Even with powerfully real experiences of the Holy Spirit and times of deep contemplation and euphoria, I still found it to be true that ‘there has to be more’ (and there are a surprising number of Christian worship-songs which express this need, this cry!) I really thought it was simply a longing that I could only expect to be fulfilled in heaven. But then, AMAZING, I met the REAL Catholic Church and fell in love with her. I have had my agonies and my times of desperation and confusion over some teachings, and then our wonderful Lord and Savior has created in me a deep understanding in my spirit, even in my body I would venture to say, which has had me in tears and songs both of absolute
joy. It is a sense of profound peace, of completeness; of finally knowing.
I hope that any others motivated to look more closely at the catholic Church will press on with courage, surrendering to God to receive His leading. He is so faithful and good to us.
Well, I had only intended to write a short paragraph but I couldn’t hold back!
I am hoping to come into the Church 2005 Easter Vigil. There are some circumstances beyond me which might make it wise to wait. Might. I need to know what God wants me to do in my situation so I would be grateful for your prayers - for my husband and children also.
Thankyou! Peace be with you!
1
1962Missal
Guest
Please discuss why you believe that there is a dichotomy between reliance on God and reliance upon the Church. It appears that, for you, reliance upon the Church must be something aside from and in addition to (or subtracting from) reliance upon God.
Consider that Catholics consider the Church to be a “sacrament” in a certain sense. Catholics view the Church as the effective sign and manifestation of God’s action within the world. That to rely on the Church is to rely upon God, because the Church is God’s work. (Please note the distinction, no accusations of Ecclesiolatry are called for
)Why is your dichotomy not false?
Justin
C
cmom
Guest
So in other words you are here to convert people
A
Amethyst
Guest
Elizabeth,
I don’t know if this will be any comfort to you, but during the (seemingly never-ending!) months I had to wait to be received into full communion, I realized God was really teaching me something.
I had been still very centered in a “Jesus-and-Me” faith, and wanting to enter in on my schedule was part of that. God used the waiting time to teach me about submission to Church authority even when I could not fully grasp the reasons. Also, it gave that first Eucharist a special quality that was like… like having ice water after a long, exhausting exercise session… times 1000000!
My prayers are with you.
A
Amethyst
Guest
And he should be wary. Some of us who went to Catholic sites to argue have found themselves “changing sides” … it could happen.So in other words you are here to convert people
Pray for me to enter deeper into Christ, Ric, and I’ll cheerfully do the same for you.
B
Bud_Stewart
Guest
Ric is surely welcome here. I think he shows class to raise questions in on a forum that is visited by both trained Catholic Apologists as well as those not so educated in the faith. He knows he can ‘pick off the weak of the flock’ here. The senior members would obviously see this attempt and council the wavering. So far I haven’t seen any evidence that non-Catholics are lurking here at the CA Forums to cause harm to anyone. I am also very confident that we can defend ourselves if necessary. The TRUTH is always the best defense and Catholicism is the TRUTH.
May God Bless you Ric
May God Bless you Ric
H
Heathen_Dawn
Guest
Hello Catholics! I’m a Wiccan. I’m a polytheist, I believe in many Gods and Goddesses, as well as one Creator-God behind Them all, and I worship one God and one Goddess, the Horned God and the Triple Goddess.
I’m not here to proselytise (Wiccans don’t do that). But any misconceptions I see here regarding Wicca will be forthrightly corrected.
I’m not here to proselytise (Wiccans don’t do that). But any misconceptions I see here regarding Wicca will be forthrightly corrected.
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