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Ric
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Don’t forget to read my reply.
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Shari
Guest
Jesus says no one can enter into heaven unless he is born of the water and spirit(water baptism)
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Britta
Guest
I love scripture and search daily. Actually, my point was really more about interpretation rather than baptism.Search the Scriptures, search the Scriptures…
You will find out for yourself that water baptism always happened after salvation.
I know some very smart, God fearing, Jesus loving people (Catholic and Protestant) take the exact same scriptures and interpret them in completely different ways on any given point. How can anyone “know” the Truth of what Jesus taught?
Just because I read a passage and understand it one way does not mean it is God’s Truth. His Word must be read in context. There is so much more to it than that.
We know the Holy Spirit guides us. Why would the Holy Spirit guide so many people in so many different directions?
BTW, this is for anyone - what is the difference in being a junior member and a regular member? I am new to the boards.
Thanks.
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mango_2003
Guest
Wierd. Jesus also told the thief on the cross that he was going to be with Him in paradise.
~mango~
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Shari
Guest
Jesus is our redemer. So I take it that you don’t think salvation can be lost?Search the Scriptures, search the Scriptures…
You will find out for yourself that water baptism always happened after salvation.
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Shari
Guest
Must be schisophrenic. (I follow the people Jesus left on earth to teach. Thats why I know what is the correct interpretion.
A regular member has more posts than a junior member. And a senior member has more than a Regular member.
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Shari
Guest
There is a thing of invencible ignorance. And the thief on the cross would have died without being able to be baptized, but the intention in his heart was probably there. Just like if I died before I am received into the Catholic church, I would have died with the intention of being a Catholic. I am not good at putting thoughts into words so if anyone else understands what I am saying and can put it better, please give me a hand.
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Britta
Guest
You said it perfectly. Thanks for the membership info!!!
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mango_2003
Guest
I fail to see how this matters…especially when taking into account the following verses (all in NIV):
Eph 2:8-9 “For it is by grace that you have been saved, through faith–and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God–not by works, so that no one can boast.”
Gal 5:4 “You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.”
Gal 2:21 "I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!
If a work is necessary, such as baptism…we have a contradiction. Scary ground to walk upon, IMHO.
~mango~
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Pax
Guest
If baptism doesn’t save then the apostle Peter must have been fibbing when he said that *baptism now saves you * (see 1 Peter 3:21).
If anyone is interested, I have reseached and compiled all of the New Testament verses on baptism and will be glad to email the file upon request. To suggest that baptism is unneccessary demonstrates why you can’t interpret scripture on your own.
If you study the different views of baptism in the various christian denominations you find an array of beliefs. The truth is, no one can say that they are not influenced by their church traditions and teachings. Moreover, the disunity among christians proves the point about interpretation. Stick with the historical church and read what the earliest christians had to say about the subject. I think someone like St. Ignatius of Antioch who was ordained by the apostle John has a better handle on the meaning of scripture, than any non-catholic pastor of today. Check out what the early church fathers thought about baptism, eucharist, confession and all the other teachings that the catholic church has lovingly preserved for two thousand years.
If anyone is interested, I have reseached and compiled all of the New Testament verses on baptism and will be glad to email the file upon request. To suggest that baptism is unneccessary demonstrates why you can’t interpret scripture on your own.
If you study the different views of baptism in the various christian denominations you find an array of beliefs. The truth is, no one can say that they are not influenced by their church traditions and teachings. Moreover, the disunity among christians proves the point about interpretation. Stick with the historical church and read what the earliest christians had to say about the subject. I think someone like St. Ignatius of Antioch who was ordained by the apostle John has a better handle on the meaning of scripture, than any non-catholic pastor of today. Check out what the early church fathers thought about baptism, eucharist, confession and all the other teachings that the catholic church has lovingly preserved for two thousand years.
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Shari
Guest
Yes we are saved through grace, we are not saved by faith or works.
Faith without works is dead. WE must have both faith and works. Remember when Jesus spoke about sorting the sheep from the goats, because if one gives food to the hungry and clothe the naked, we have fed Jesus and clothed him. Those who don’t, don’t feed or clothe Jesus either. Sounds like a need for works with faith to me. I am not saying Jesus’s death was for nothing. That was for all of our sins, he was the ultimate sacrafice. But just like a person who breaks a window, you can say I am sorry but you still have to WORK to repair it. We are alao commanded to take care of the widows and orphans. More works.
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Shari
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Katholikos
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I’m not either. I’m Byzantine Catholic.I’m not Roman Catholic.
“Roman” refers to a specific rite (style of worship) within the Catholic Church.(Not really – I’m a Latin Rite Catholic, but I wanted to make the point on behalf of my Byzantine Catholic friends who resent being called “Roman.”)
Peace be to you and to all.
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potterygirl
Guest
Heathen Dawn:
After trying the Pagan thing, I realized that what I was looking for all along was my reflection in the stained glass of the Catholic Church. That feminine balance that I was searching for in wicca or paganism is found in Catholicism with Mary. And the many gods and goddesses that are called upon is similar (not the same as)to the numerous Saints that have a story to tell as well and actions that are excellent role models for anyone.
There is incense that is present in the Catholic Church to celebrate the same thing that Wiccans celebrate…the AIR! And we Catholics breathe in the air that’s the breath of God.
I tell ya…I don’t know which has been harder based on the treatment that I got from close friends who knew I was searching for the divine…telling them I was interested in Wicca/Paganism or joining the Catholic Church. All gave shocked looks.
This just goes to show the ignorance of people about religion all around.
Having “looked into” Wicca, Paganism, and the like, I was searching for the answers in life… I found that most of those in Pagan worship are the most lost (the ones that I met). Most intelligent people should know that Wiccans do not sacrifice babies or animals. Thank goodness.Hello Catholics! I’m a Wiccan. I’m a polytheist, I believe in many Gods and Goddesses, as well as one Creator-God behind Them all, and I worship one God and one Goddess, the Horned God and the Triple Goddess.
I’m not here to proselytise (Wiccans don’t do that). But any misconceptions I see here regarding Wicca will be forthrightly corrected.
After trying the Pagan thing, I realized that what I was looking for all along was my reflection in the stained glass of the Catholic Church. That feminine balance that I was searching for in wicca or paganism is found in Catholicism with Mary. And the many gods and goddesses that are called upon is similar (not the same as)to the numerous Saints that have a story to tell as well and actions that are excellent role models for anyone.
There is incense that is present in the Catholic Church to celebrate the same thing that Wiccans celebrate…the AIR! And we Catholics breathe in the air that’s the breath of God.
I tell ya…I don’t know which has been harder based on the treatment that I got from close friends who knew I was searching for the divine…telling them I was interested in Wicca/Paganism or joining the Catholic Church. All gave shocked looks.
This just goes to show the ignorance of people about religion all around.
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Little_Mary
Guest
And how often does he do that?When he contradicts God’s Word. Simple!
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Little_Mary
Guest
Could someone please explain to me why this is such a big issue with non-Catholics? The Catholic Church teaches salvation by Grace and that you cannot be saved by Faith alone or Works alone. If you truly love Jesus and live with him in your heart, you can’t help but live a good, christian life, which is impossible to do without works. Impossible. Can God grant entry into heaven solely by his Grace and with nothing else? Yes! Because only He knows what is in their heart - like the Baptism of desire that Shari mentioned. He is our Creator and He can do anything. BUT, we can’t all just walk around ignoring our hungry families and robbing banks. That would be turning away from God, wouldn’t it? So works keep us close to Him and His Grace. It’s very simple.
The bible compares the importance of works in James 2:26 “…for just as a body without a spirit is dead, so also, faith without works is dead”. While you’re there, just read versus 14 through 26. It’s all right there.
Again, WHY is this such a big issue?
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Katholikos
Guest
A “Protestant” is one who believes that the Bible Alone (Sola Scriptura) is the sole basis for faith and doctrine, and who interprets the Scriptures for himself. The Holy Spirit leads every “sincere” Protestant “to all truth” in interpreting the Scriptures (so said Luther). The founders of the thousands of conflicting and competing Protestant denominations were all lead to different “truths” – poor, maligned Holy Spirit!
It’s not surprising that you learned a “few things” from Roman Rite Catholics, and from the members of the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church who belong to the 21 other rites as well, since the Catholic Church alone lived the NT, wrote it, and is its only rightful interpreter.
But, alas, it fell into Protestant hands in the sixteenth century. There, it is stolen and misused property that belongs to the Catholic Church. In Protestant hands, it has been used to prove bigamy, polygyny, soul sleep, Once Saved Always Saved, and thousands of other abberant beliefs.
Peace be to you and to all.
BTW, which version of “truth” do you represent? Glad you’re here. Maybe we can teach you something.
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Katholikos
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Ric
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When Jesus was talking about being born of water, He was refering to natural birth from the mother’s womb. This is where we understand the fact of the first birth and the second birth (second birth being one who is “born again” from John 3:3).
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Katholikos
Guest
You did well, Shari. Bravo!
If a person is killed in an auto accident on his way to his baptism, would God slam the door to heaven in his face?
The Catholic answer is No.
(Protestants have varying opinions about the necessity of baptism, so there is no one “Protestant” answer.)
If a person is on his way to “accept Jesus Christ as his personal Lord and Savior” and is killed before he arrives, would God slam to door to heaven in his face?
The [Evangelical and Fundamentalist] Protestant answer is Yes.
The Catholic answer is No. Not if the person is following God’s laws that are written on his heart and conscience to the best of his ability and is sincerely trying to do God’s will as he understands it.
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