Non-Catholics on these boards...

[Ric]

Little Mary:

Ric, Ric, Ric, you seem to contradict yourself here. If you are certain that you can come to the truth solely by prayerfully reading the scriptures, then protestant churches should not have preachers. Just let a passage from Scripture be read and then follow with a moment of silence so that the Holy Spirit can touch each individual. I wonder how many denominations there would be if we all did THAT??

But wait, even with preachers, it seems this method of (attempting to) receive the Holy Spirit and interpret Scripture has resulted in an excess of 25,000 protestant denominations. Maybe it’s time to go back to square one aka The Catholic Church.

Everything you know about driving a car did not come from the owner’s manual.

Regarding your statement about tradition, RC Tradition is not man’s tradition, it is part of the church that Jesus started. BTW, you can go to any RC Mass anywhere in the world on any given day and get the same message. No conflicts there at all. Catholics take all passages from the bible within context. Nothing is ever twisted to make it say something that it doesn’t.

I think not, for we all know that the Bereans even examining the Scriptures daily to see what Paul said was true (Acts 17:10-12). And even Paul asked whom ever he preached to needed to examen the Scriptures to see what ever he said was true (Galatians 1:6-9).

 

[Ric]

Little Mary:

Never say never, Ric.

Fair warning, the rosary is a very powerful prayer, and I am sure there are many being said for you these days. In fact if that is true, you are very fortunate!

Prayer is something I do need! Big Time!

But please, I ask, who ever is praying for me to please pray to God alone and not to Mary or any saint.

Thanks for my humble request.

 

[Shari]

mango_2003:

I fail to see how this matters…especially when taking into account the following verses (all in NIV):
~mango~

My point was, because I was taking you post to mean that the thief was going to Heaven without being baptized, that he was going to die before he had that chance, so it would have been his intent to do what Jesus wanted him to(be baptized) if he could have.

 

[Ric]

Shari:

I thought that too, 8 yrs ago. I was actually very anti-catholic. But look at me now. I guess the Holy spirit knows what he’s doing. There is hope for you. I will pray, that the Holy Spirit leads you were he wants you and that you are open enough to follow.

Dear, dear Shari,

Trust me (believe it or not), I am not by any means “anti-catholic”!

I love all Roman Catholics, heck I even married one!

I do, however, disagree with Roman Catholic teachings (be it just a few of the teachings), but are enough to give me very much great concern for the members of the Roman Catholic church!

I pray daily for everyone I converse with on these boards be it if they are Roman Catholic or not.

I will never become a member of the Roman Catholic church unless she changes her teachings on salvation (my main concern) and a few other teaching.

God Bless!

 

[Shari]

Little Mary:

Ric, Ric, Ric, you seem to contradict yourself here. If you are certain that you can come to the truth solely by prayerfully reading the scriptures, then protestant churches should not have preachers. Just let a passage from Scripture be read and then follow with a moment of silence so that the Holy Spirit can touch each individual. I wonder how many denominations there would be if we all did THAT??

What a great idea, we can all just interpret the scriptures with the help of the Holy Spirit of course, and each end up our own denomination. The Holy Spirit can lead you one way and me another. Thats ok. I will be the denomination of Shari and you can be the denomination of Little Mary. Oh we might even get lucky and the Holy Spirit will leaf a couple of us in the same direction and we can combine the denominations. You know save space. LOL I am just kidding, just trying to help enforce Little Mary’s point.

 

[Little_Mary]

Shari:

What a great idea, we can all just interpret the scriptures with the help of the Holy Spirit of course, and each end up our own denomination. The Holy Spirit can lead you one way and me another. Thats ok. I will be the denomination of Shari and you can be the denomination of Little Mary. Oh we might even get lucky and the Holy Spirit will leaf a couple of us in the same direction and we can combine the denominations. You know save space. LOL I am just kidding, just trying to help enforce Little Mary’s point.

If he lead us in the same direction we would eventually have to disagree and split up because our interpretations would, at some point, differ. Just kidding! Thanks for the re-enforcement!

 

[Little_Mary]

Ric:

Prayer is something I do need! Big Time!

But please, I ask, who ever is praying for me to please pray to God alone and not to Mary or any saint.

Thanks for my humble request.

Prayer is something I could use, too, so let’s pray for each other. Great!

But please don’t limit yourself by excluding Mary and the saints. They are good friends to have.

Are you clear on what the rosary is and how it is prayed?

 

[Ric]

Little Mary:

Prayer is something I could use, too, so let’s pray for each other. Great!

But please don’t limit yourself by excluding Mary and the saints. They are good friends to have.

Are you clear on what the rosary is and how it is prayed?

I must admit on all of the studies I have done on the Roman Catholic church I have never done a study on the rosary.

 

[donadei]

Hesed:

I’m here because I love to discuss theology, and I want to understand how some seemingly cognizant people can become Roman Catholic – especially after (some of them) coming from a Reformed Protestant background of “sola scriptura.”

Welcome, Hesed! You just came to the right place. Your comment above should really make you wonder: Dr. Scott Hahn? Rosalind Moss? Karl Keating? Marcus Grodi?

I have only one answer: Because the Catholic Church has the fulness of truth and anyone who seeks Truth with an open heart finds It.

I won’t need to answer any of your questions as they are explained well in Catholic Answers. Look at this link:

catholic.com/

and look under LIBRARY.

You’d come home soon, sooner than you think, that is, if you are really bent on knowing the TRUTH!

 

[Hesed]

Shari:

What a great idea, we can all just interpret the scriptures with the help of the Holy Spirit of course, and each end up our own denomination. The Holy Spirit can lead you one way and me another. Thats ok. I will be the denomination of Shari and you can be the denomination of Little Mary. Oh we might even get lucky and the Holy Spirit will leaf a couple of us in the same direction and we can combine the denominations. You know save space. LOL I am just kidding, just trying to help enforce Little Mary’s point.

Shari,

Aren’t there many different interpretations of what Rome teaches? Aren’t we just adding another tier to what needs interpreting: the Scriptures + The Pope? Why do Scott Hahn and Gerry Matatics differ if Rome only has one way of being interpreted? Why do some Catholics – like Mel Gibson – believe differently than others? Then there are all kinds of Roman Catholics (conservative, liberal, traditionalist, American, etc…). Which are right and which are wrong? Jesus gave us teachers like elders to expound and teach the Word of God? But they are subservient to it’s authority. They are to be rejected if they don’t rightly divide the truth. Do you have that freedom? No, you have to submit to your final authority: Rome. I’d rather stick to an authority that is God-breathed.

 

[Hesed]

donadei:

Hesed:

I’m here because I love to discuss theology, and I want to understand how some seemingly cognizant people can become Roman Catholic – especially after (some of them) coming from a Reformed Protestant background of “sola scriptura.”

Welcome, Hesed! You just came to the right place. Your comment above should really make you wonder: Dr. Scott Hahn? Rosalind Moss? Karl Keating? Marcus Grodi?

I have only one answer: Because the Catholic Church has the fulness of truth and anyone who seeks Truth with an open heart finds It.

I won’t need to answer any of your questions as they are explained well in Catholic Answers. Look at this link:

catholic.com/

and look under LIBRARY.

You’d come home soon, sooner than you think, that is, if you are really bent on knowing the TRUTH!

Mormons say something similar to me, .

 

[donadei]

You said,

I must admit on all of the studies I have done on the Roman Catholic church I have never done a study on the rosary.

My response,

The Rosary is one of the treasures of the Catholic Church! How could you miss it?

I am a cradle Catholic and grew up with the Rosary at home. My mom would say it on bended knees and young as I was, I started questioning her prayer. Man, I admire her faith!

I pray the Rosary alright, but more out of habit than anything else.

But lo and behold, on my birthday this year, as I was doing my adoration of the Blessed Sacrament, I perchance to read the gospel for the day. It was the Visitation of Elizabeth by Mary, who upon hearing the latter’s greeting, the baby in her womb leapt for joy!

It dawned on me, that Mary’s greeting caused St John to leap for joy! St John was filled with the Holy Spirit upon hearing Mary’s greeting. Mary is indeed, the Ark of the Covenant as we Catholics honor her under this title. It came very clear to me that Mary, who was pregnant with Jesus at the time, carry God in her blessed womb. This Mary, this Jewish Mary, this human Mary, carries God in her womb, who would become eventually the mother of the Son of Man on earth!

Could you imagine if Mary had not greeted Elizabeth? Would St John be filled with the Holy Spirit? Without Mary’s greeting, would the precursor St John be able to initiate Jesus’ public life? Without Mary, would the salvation history ever be?

I was so humbled, Ric.

And yet, precisely this is what we say in the Rosary. We recall this most important event in our salvation history!

Hail Mary, full of grace, the LORD is with you!

Now, if you pray for somebody else, human as you are, don’t you think Mary’s prayer for you won’t be more efficacious, she, the bearer of the Son of Man?

And this is what we say in the second part of Hail Mary:

Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us, sinners, now and at the hour of our death, Amen.

Now, Ric, this is but one part of the Rosary. The Rosary, in fact, is the life, passion, death, and resurrection of Our LORD Jesus Christ. The mysteries of the Rosary will tell you so.

You’re right. I am not praying the Rosary the same way again, not out of habit but with my heart.

 

[Ric]

donadei:

You said,

I must admit on all of the studies I have done on the Roman Catholic church I have never done a study on the rosary.

My response,

The Rosary is one of the treasures of the Catholic Church! How could you miss it?

I am a cradle Catholic and grew up with the Rosary at home. My mom would say it on bended knees and young as I was, I started questioning her prayer. Man, I admire her faith!

I pray the Rosary alright, but more out of habit than anything else.

But lo and behold, on my birthday this year, as I was doing my adoration of the Blessed Sacrament, I perchance to read the gospel for the day. It was the Visitation of Elizabeth by Mary, who upon hearing the latter’s greeting, the baby in her womb leapt for joy!

It dawned on me, that Mary’s greeting caused St John to leap for joy! St John was filled with the Holy Spirit upon hearing Mary’s greeting. Mary is indeed, the Ark of the Covenant as we Catholics honor her under this title. It came very clear to me that Mary, who was pregnant with Jesus at the time, carry God in her blessed womb. This Mary, this Jewish Mary, this human Mary, carries God in her womb, who would become eventually the mother of the Son of Man on earth!

Could you imagine if Mary had not greeted Elizabeth? Would St John be filled with the Holy Spirit? Without Mary’s greeting, would the precursor St John be able to initiate Jesus’ public life? Without Mary, would the salvation history ever be?

I was so humbled, Ric.

And yet, precisely this is what we say in the Rosary. We recall this most important event in our salvation history!

Hail Mary, full of grace, the LORD is with you!

Now, if you pray for somebody else, human as you are, don’t you think Mary’s prayer for you won’t be more efficacious, she, the bearer of the Son of Man?

And this is what we say in the second part of Hail Mary:

Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us, sinners, now and at the hour of our death, Amen.

Now, Ric, this is but one part of the Rosary. The Rosary, in fact, is the life, passion, death, and resurrection of Our LORD Jesus Christ. The mysteries of the Rosary will tell you so.

You’re right. I am not praying the Rosary the same way again, not out of habit but with my heart.

Now please do not get me wrong here, but thank you for your reply…

But I see that you are very emotional about the rosary, but I still see no reason to pray the rosary nor the theological benefits for praying the rosary (Scripture wise).

1.) Why pray the rosary?
2.) To whom am I praying?
3.) Why is the rosary so repetitive?
4.) How come I see no command to pray the rosary in the Scriptures?

Here are four quick questions I hope I can have an answer for.

Plus is there a place where I can study the rosary from the RCC’s belief on the web?

Thanks!

 

[Shari]

Hesed:

Shari,

Aren’t there many different interpretations of what Rome teaches? Aren’t we just adding another tier to what needs interpreting: the Scriptures + The Pope?

I am not sure I follow. But if I am understanding correctly, the answer would be NO. The pope doesn’t need interpreting. He along with the bishops teaching with him in the magisterium are who are infallilble when it comes to teaching on faith and morals(not who will win the world series). So no we don’t have to interpret the Pope, he makes himself quite clear. Even the rich etheopian eunich in the bible said he couldn’t understand what he was reading unless someone told him.

Hesed:

Why do Scott Hahn and Gerry Matatics differ if Rome only has one way of being interpreted?

Scott Hahn was actually trying to prove the Catholic faith wrong so that he could save the Catholics. LOL he couldn’t. And after years of study he came to see that Protestantism was what wasn’t true and biblical.

Hesed:

Why do some Catholics – like Mel Gibson – believe differently than others? Then there are all kinds of Roman Catholics (conservative, liberal, traditionalist, American, etc…). Which are right and which are wrong?

As far as having Catholics believe differently, one reason is poor cathechisis(not sure on the spelling), and I am not sure that they really believe differently than others when it comes to the doctrines and dogmas of the Church. If one rejects a Dogma of the church,i.e. Mary’s purpetual virginity, than they are not in comunion with the Church. As far as having conservative, liberal, traditional,ect. catholics again as long as all arein communion with what the Church teaches in faith and morals, doctirnes and dogmas it is ok. Just like we don’t all have to agree on whether or not to support the war, and we can all still be good Catholics. We are entiled to our opinion.

Hesed:

Jesus gave us teachers like elders to expound and teach the Word of God? But they are subservient to it’s authority. They are to be rejected if they don’t rightly divide the truth.

Who decides what’s the truth? Again that is what Jesus gave to the apostles, and to be passed on.

Hesed:

Do you have that freedom? No, you have to submit to your final authority: Rome. I’d rather stick to an authority that is God-breathed.

And not that it matters, but I did have that freedom. Actually I still do, I haven’t been confirmed yet. I am submitting to what the apostles set up and what Christ taught. And Christ breathed onto the apostles, that is very important. The only other time that was done was when God created man.

 

[Shari]

Hesed:

Shari,

Aren’t there many different interpretations of what Rome teaches? Aren’t we just adding another tier to what needs interpreting: the Scriptures + The Pope? Why do Scott Hahn and Gerry Matatics differ if Rome only has one way of being interpreted? Why do some Catholics – like Mel Gibson – believe differently than others? Then there are all kinds of Roman Catholics (conservative, liberal, traditionalist, American, etc…). Which are right and which are wrong? Jesus gave us teachers like elders to expound and teach the Word of God? But they are subservient to it’s authority. They are to be rejected if they don’t rightly divide the truth. Do you have that freedom? No, you have to submit to your final authority: Rome. I’d rather stick to an authority that is God-breathed.

 

[Katholikos]

Ric:

The true “Universal Church” is made up of every believer in Jesus Christ alone for their salvation and obey Him as their Lord!

Are there believers like that in the Roman Catholic church? Yes!
Are there believers like that in the Southern Baptist church? Yes!
Are there believers like that in the Methodist church? Yes!
Are there believers like that in the Lutheran church? Yes!
etc…

But the Roman Catholic church can not lay claim on being “the” Universal Church!

Contrast the imaginary, invisible church of all true believers, unknown to the Apostles but “discovered” by Luther in the 16th century, with the Church St. Ignatius, Bishop of Antioch, wrote about in A.D. 107, shortly after his teacher and mentor, St. John the Apostle, died: “Where the bishop appears, there let the people be, just as where Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic [Universal] Church” (Letter to the Smyrnaeans).

The Catholic Church does indeed lay claim to being “the” only one, true, original Universal (Catholic) Church. She alone has existed since the Apostles walked the earth. She often refers to herself simply as “the Church.”

 

[Hesed]

Shari:

I am not sure I follow. But if I am understanding correctly, the answer would be NO. The pope doesn’t need interpreting. He along with the bishops teaching with him in the magisterium are who are infallilble when it comes to teaching on faith and morals(not who will win the world series). So no we don’t have to interpret the Pope, he makes himself quite clear. Even the rich etheopian eunich in the bible said he couldn’t understand what he was reading unless someone told him.

The fact remains that Catholics differ on what the Popes have taught.

Scott Hahn was actually trying to prove the Catholic faith wrong so that he could save the Catholics. LOL he couldn’t. And after years of study he came to see that Protestantism was what wasn’t true and biblical.

You avoided my question.

As far as having Catholics believe differently, one reason is poor cathechisis(not sure on the spelling), and I am not sure that they really believe differently than others when it comes to the doctrines and dogmas of the Church. If one rejects a Dogma of the church,i.e. Mary’s purpetual virginity, than they are not in comunion with the Church. As far as having conservative, liberal, traditional,ect. catholics again as long as all arein communion with what the Church teaches in faith and morals, doctirnes and dogmas it is ok. Just like we don’t all have to agree on whether or not to support the war, and we can all still be good Catholics. We are entiled to our opinion.

Again, Catholics differ on some of these dogmas.

Who decides what’s the truth? Again that is what Jesus gave to the apostles, and to be passed on.
And not that it matters, but I did have that freedom. Actually I still do, I haven’t been confirmed yet. I am submitting to what the apostles set up and what Christ taught. And Christ breathed onto the apostles, that is very important. The only other time that was done was when God created man.

Yes, that is why we have the apostolic authority written in the New Testament – which are God-breathed and authoritative.

Shari, You are making a huge mistake. You are going to submit to an authority that is not from God. You have to choose between Rome and the Scriptures – sola ecclesia vs. sola scriptura. Choose the God-breathed Scriptures and ask the Holy Spirit to lead and guide you into all the truth written therein. The Pope has usurped the role of the Holy Spirit. :nope:

 

[Shari]

You avoided my question.

I answered your question each part and very explicit too.

Hesed:

Again, Catholics differ on some of these dogmas.

Then they are not in communion with the Church if they don’t agree with the dogmas, and they need to get there act together.

shari:

Who decides what’s the truth? Again that is what Jesus gave to the apostles, and to be passed on.
And not that it matters, but I did have that freedom. Actually I still do, I haven’t been confirmed yet. I am submitting to what the apostles set up and what Christ taught. And Christ breathed onto the apostles, that is very important. The only other time that was done was when God created man.

You still didn’t answer my question, who decides the truth?

Hesed:

Yes, that is why we have the apostolic authority written in the New Testament – which are God-breathed and authoritative.

And Peter the first pope had this authority and the authority to pass it on, we need a leader here on earth. Christ new that. He didn’t just give the authority to the appostles, knowing that the would die before the second comming just to say ok now everyone is on there own now.

Hesed:

Shari, You are making a huge mistake. You are going to submit to an authority that is not from God.
No the mistake I made was staying away for so long. And I am submitting to Gods authority.

Hesed:

You have to choose between Rome and the Scriptures – sola ecclesia vs. sola scriptura.

sola scriptura is unbiblical. Therefor I am not choosing between Rome and the Scriptures. I am choosing the Church Jesus started. Before when I was at different churches it was to find one that catered to my beliefs. Wrong idea, I needed to take a long look at myself and start believing what Jesus taught. When I figured this out and that the Catholic Church is the true faith started by Jesus I relized that by not being in it, I was choosing to have more than one God. Can’t do that.

Hesed:

Choose the God-breathed Scriptures and ask the Holy Spirit to lead and guide you into all the truth written therein. The Pope has usurped the role of the Holy Spirit. :nope:

I have, remeber Jesus breathed on the apostles, breathed the authority onto the apostles and that was to be handed down. The this is where the Holy Spirit led me.

 

[mrS4ntA]

Ric:

Now please do not get me wrong here, but thank you for your reply…

But I see that you are very emotional about the rosary, but I still see no reason to pray the rosary nor the theological benefits for praying the rosary (Scripture wise).

1.) Why pray the rosary?
2.) To whom am I praying?
3.) Why is the rosary so repetitive?
4.) How come I see no command to pray the rosary in the Scriptures?

Here are four quick questions I hope I can have an answer for.

Plus is there a place where I can study the rosary from the RCC’s belief on the web?

Thanks!

1. The Holy Rosary is a beautiful, meditative form or prayer where you recount the life of Jesus, **His ** ministry and His mother and as such, gains us countless merits through which we can model our lives around that of Christ’s and His blessed mother.
   Through it, too, we invokes Mary’s holy name to ask God’s graces and blessings; for if we honour the mother, we glorify the Son; and what Son would not the request of His mother?
2. There are usually seven prayers included in the Rosary: the Apostles’ Creed, the Our Father, the Hail Mary, the minor Doxology (Glory Be), the Fatima prayer, Hail Holy Queen and the concluding prayer. All of the above are directed towards God
   , whether directly or indirectly. The Hail Mary and Hail Holy Queen prayers are ultimately prayers that glorify the Holy Trinity by honoring His Mother/Spouse/Son.
3. The formula (ten hail Marys) indicates the length of the meditation of each decade of the mysteries (Glorious, Sorrowful, Joyful, Luminous). Also, it helps focus the mind and heart to the meditaion. Besides, who doesn’t like to say “I love you” to someone they really love repetitively to express his love? Would you just say “I love you” once to your wife on your wedding day and never ever say it again? Jesus condemned **vain ** repetition, not a heart-felt one.
4. The Rosary, like the Church, evolved and developed. They are not something that expressedly stated, but the practice is allowed in the Bible, nevertheless. Early Christians did practice similar form of prayers using the Psalms instead of Hail Marys. Would the repetitiveness be condemned, too?

 

[kamz]

Ric,

Catholics only pray to God, we ask Mary to pray for us as we would ask a friend to say a prayer for us. When I am in need of prayer I ask my friends, family, etc. to say a prayer for me, I also ask Jesus’s mother to pray for me but I never pray to Mary or any other saint, only to God, that is something alot of non Catholics get very mixed up, they think Catholics pray to Mary or other saints, not true, we just ask them to pray for us