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Ric
Guest
Thanks Maria,
I will study this.
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I will study this.
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Little_Mary
Guest
Here, you discuss “one church”. In an earlier post I suggested that you order on audio tape on that subject from www.biblechristiansociety.com. I hope you will consider doing so. It is fascinating might give you a lot to think about.
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Britta
Guest
You obviously have a tremendous love of the rosary and our Blessed Mother. God Bless.
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Ric
Guest
Little Mary:
Yes you did. I bookmarked the site and will look at it soon.Here, you discuss “one church”. In an earlier post I suggested that you order on audio tape on that subject from www.biblechristiansociety.com. I hope you will consider doing so. It is fascinating might give you a lot to think about.
L
Little_Mary
Guest
2 Thess 2:15I think not, for we all know that the Bereans even examining the Scriptures daily to see what Paul said was true (Acts 17:10-12). And even Paul asked whom ever he preached to needed to examen the Scriptures to see what ever he said was true (Galatians 1:6-9).
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Ric
Guest
Little Mary said:
Correct, and Paul himself received Christian traditions subsequent to his conversion (1Co 15:3-5), and through divine revelation he had originated other traditions (1Th 4:15). These he had passed on to his converts both “by word of mouth” and “by letter” in his previous contacts with them. In light of their inclusion in God’s saving purpose (2Th 13-14), he commands them to remain unmovable and cling tenaciously to these doctrines. No other traditions have been added from the time the Apostles all have passed on.
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Britta
Guest
I find your messages interesting and am trying to follow:
Ric:
What traditions are you referring to with this scripture?
Which scripture are you referring to here?
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Ric
Guest
1Th 4:15 and 2Th 13-14
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Britta
Guest
Ric said:
Would that be chapter 2 or 3 of Second Thessalonians?
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Ric
Guest
2Th 2:13-14 Sorry!
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Pax
Guest
You are definitely wrong when you claim that the church that Jesus established means “all believers.” The various interpretations that exist have led to the establishment of approximately twenty five to thirty thousand separate denominations. Since truth is immutable most of the denominations must be teaching at least some error. This sad state of affairs is not only confusing the message of the gospel and salvation, but is also an example of Christians not living according to the Lord’s wishes. Consider the following passage: “Holy Father, keep them in thy name, which thou hast given me, that they may be one, even as we are one”(John 17:11). In this verse the Lord is praying to the Father for unity among the apostles. He later makes a similar prayer saying, “I do not pray for these only, but also for those who believe in me through their word, that they may all be one; even as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. The glory which thou hast given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one” (John 17:20-22).
These verses speak volumes concerning Christian unity and are worth pondering over and over again. As Christian brothers and sisters our factions and divisions are no small matter in the eyes of the Lord. Christ desires that we be completely united, so much so that our unity is to be like that of Himself and the Father.
Clearly, something is amiss in our understandings because disunity is rampant. Moreover, it isn’t sufficient to quote the Lord stating that, “When the spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth”(John 16:13), and then claim that an individual can simply read the scriptures and understand the content because the Holy Spirit will guide him. This is a common misuse of this scripture. Taken even further within the Christian community at large, this misuse becomes amplified into a multiplicity of interpretations and denominations. The inevitable consequence is error and division on a grand scale. It is because of this, that novel scriptural interpretations abound.
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mrS4ntA
Guest
Remember the maxim:
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Truth *cannot *** contradict Truth!!
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Tom_of_Assisi
Guest
Earlier Heather Dawn spoke of worshipping a “horned god” and a triple goddess…aren’t these “religious” practices based on the imaginings of Robert Graves and other sexual libertines who just wanted to have as much license as possible? People who want to act like sexual animals will no doubt justify their immorality by envisioning a universe run by sex goddesses and horny goat gods. Am I off base here?
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline (disciplieship) in Christ and find your liberty.
Seek freedom and become captive of your desires. Seek discipline (disciplieship) in Christ and find your liberty.
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Shari
Guest
Ric if you knew anything about history, when the canons of the OT and NT were put together and decided on with final authority and guidance of the Holy Spirit. The OT was the septuigant with “extra books” as you call them. It wasn’t until 1517 when Martin Luther at the time of the revolt took the 7 books out, because they didn’t suit his position. He also wanted to remove others from the new testament such as Rev. and refured to the book of James as the epistle of straw. If you would care to read my posts in the threads in the general forum I go into great detail there that I won’t here, but maybe you can get your history straight. We didn’t add books Luther removed them. It doesn’t matter to me if you use them, just please get it straight Catholic bible with all the books was FIRST.
P.S.
The threads are bibles and is the NAB banned.
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JackPaul
Guest
To all you Non Catholics out there…
I am a new convert and I spent a lot of time discerning the Truth. What made the RCC Truth to me was the people that I got to know in our RCC community. Their Christ like attitude became my reality of Truth. Later, I got to know the Truth in an apologetic sense and that helped confirm the prior good feelings of the Church that I know. This Biblical and Historical Truth has been rocked a few times, especially after learning some of the history of the Church. With the goings on in the middle ages, it is no wonder why the Church had its discenters and that is why we have so many Protestants today. However, I have come to know my Church as Truth and I wouldn’t want to be anywhere else. I am sure there are many others who are not RC that love their church the same way I do mine. We know that Jesus never intended for us to be divided in our beliefs and we also know that some false teachers are not teaching the Truth. For those who are on the fence or who have fallen victim to one of these false teachers, I would like to invite you to a Church like mine were all are welcome and the fullness of the faith can be realized.
Peace…
I am a new convert and I spent a lot of time discerning the Truth. What made the RCC Truth to me was the people that I got to know in our RCC community. Their Christ like attitude became my reality of Truth. Later, I got to know the Truth in an apologetic sense and that helped confirm the prior good feelings of the Church that I know. This Biblical and Historical Truth has been rocked a few times, especially after learning some of the history of the Church. With the goings on in the middle ages, it is no wonder why the Church had its discenters and that is why we have so many Protestants today. However, I have come to know my Church as Truth and I wouldn’t want to be anywhere else. I am sure there are many others who are not RC that love their church the same way I do mine. We know that Jesus never intended for us to be divided in our beliefs and we also know that some false teachers are not teaching the Truth. For those who are on the fence or who have fallen victim to one of these false teachers, I would like to invite you to a Church like mine were all are welcome and the fullness of the faith can be realized.
Peace…
E
Elizabeth
Guest
Ric said:
I have just been convinced of the necessity of Baptism for salvation thanks to seeing it repeatedly in your post!
Did you read what you were writing?
Ric, what can I say?! Thanks from a soon-to-be-Catholic.
Ric, and Mango, I have been a Christian for 14 years in charismatic non-denominational churches and I simply ask you to do what you yourself suggested, in trying to read the Bible; ridding yourself of prejudice (as far as it is possible for us!) and asking the Holy Spirit to guide you into all Truth. (Not a word for word quote I know). Anyway, I am not yet Catholic but over the last year I have found such joy and peace in the Catholic Church and finding rock solid teachings and Truth - and all that time I was asking and waiting on God. Sometimes very disturbed, I kept open to Him even though others would try to dissuade me and I nearly looked elswhere. I honestly feel like I have been born again, again!
I wish I could convey to you how much joy I have at discovering the profundity of Truth in the Catholic Church. It is beautiful and I urge you, for the sake of your own walk with Jesus Christ to seriously, WITH AN OPEN MIND AND HEART TO GOD’S LEADING, look into what Catholic’s truly believe and don’t sit complacently on your own beliefs without truly finding out for yourself. FOR YOURSELF!
Just one thing to start with: The Eucharist. If this isn’t the actual Body and Blood of Jesus, carry on right where you are. BUT IF IT IS, what can you do? Why did Jesus give himself in this way for all time? and what are you missing if *He * said that this is so? Isn’t it worth checking out - just in case because think what it means that millions of people worldwide truly believe this is the body, blood, soul and divinity of our very Lord Jesus Christ - whose blood was and is poured out for us, day after day, for US NOW! How can we be complacent about even the possibility of this? Read John 6 again and again asking God to show you what the Truth is. And please listen to Scott Hahn’s teaching on the Lamb’s Supper (correct me anyone if the title isn’t correct). It blew me away and had me in tears of repentance and joy and absolute euphoria: It answered SO MUCH and filled out and gave dimension to my faith and the Bible like I had never known before and my love for Jesus hit the roof and beyond.
Please Ric and Mango and anyone else who isn’t Catholic and thinks they know better or just isn’t interested: PLEASE look into even just (just?!?) The Eucharist from the Catholic point of view. If you take God with you, He won’t let you go or lead you into a lie, He won’t.
God bless you and be with you.
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potterygirl
Guest
Yes you are right…
The Wicca that she refers to is a relatively “new” and made up religion (circa 1950) this is highly documented in several of the well known books (Cunningham) to date that the actual writings of those pre-Christian worshipers (those not yet converted) were destroyed for fear of persecution during the “burning times”. So most of the information has been lost through oral tradition and thus the rest was made up or rather “assumed” to put it PC.
…personally while trying to find my way to the one and only God, I read alot about Wicca and Paganism. I was wishy washy in my findings but found that I really worshiped mother nature and God for the gifts that they gives vs. the whole sex/pleasures of that most associated with witchcraft and the like.
It’s also interesting to find that even SOME witches/wiccans actually have Jesus as one of their GODS…bc of the good that he taught and the similarities of his words to Buddha and other icons of the like.
I basically found that most of these types make up the religion as they go and many of the other current Pagan religions such as today’s Druidism were made up as well. Druidism and it’s revamping came about as a joke as some college students tried to bring it back so to say so that they could get out of going to “chapel”.
I never worshiped a horned god so to say but prayed to the God I was taught, but also prayed that there was a female side listening to me. But the more I read and the more I researched the more I FELL out of the interest in the whole Pagan world. I did find that when I came to the Catholic Faith that it was acceptable to meditate on God, Mary, Jesus’ teachings, the works (good nature) of the Saints. I love meditation. It’s good for the mind and body.
Now a good portion of my clients are Pagan and I don’t hold anything against them. I know they will eventually come to their senses! It could be worse…they could be following the teachings of Antonne LaVey.
The Wicca that she refers to is a relatively “new” and made up religion (circa 1950) this is highly documented in several of the well known books (Cunningham) to date that the actual writings of those pre-Christian worshipers (those not yet converted) were destroyed for fear of persecution during the “burning times”. So most of the information has been lost through oral tradition and thus the rest was made up or rather “assumed” to put it PC.
…personally while trying to find my way to the one and only God, I read alot about Wicca and Paganism. I was wishy washy in my findings but found that I really worshiped mother nature and God for the gifts that they gives vs. the whole sex/pleasures of that most associated with witchcraft and the like.
It’s also interesting to find that even SOME witches/wiccans actually have Jesus as one of their GODS…bc of the good that he taught and the similarities of his words to Buddha and other icons of the like.
I basically found that most of these types make up the religion as they go and many of the other current Pagan religions such as today’s Druidism were made up as well. Druidism and it’s revamping came about as a joke as some college students tried to bring it back so to say so that they could get out of going to “chapel”.
I never worshiped a horned god so to say but prayed to the God I was taught, but also prayed that there was a female side listening to me. But the more I read and the more I researched the more I FELL out of the interest in the whole Pagan world. I did find that when I came to the Catholic Faith that it was acceptable to meditate on God, Mary, Jesus’ teachings, the works (good nature) of the Saints. I love meditation. It’s good for the mind and body.
Now a good portion of my clients are Pagan and I don’t hold anything against them. I know they will eventually come to their senses! It could be worse…they could be following the teachings of Antonne LaVey.
S
Shari
Guest
I completely agree, Acts 8:30 Philip takes over the Ethiopian Eunich’ chariot as the ethiopian is reading the scriptures and Philip asks if he understands what he is reading, and the ethiopian responds, how can I unless someone guides me. Now obviously he wasn’t speaking of the Holy Spirit because this ethiopian didn’t even know of Jesus or the Spirit. No he was speaking of a human, and that makes sense because then Philip guided him as to what it meant. I might also add that after this they went down the road to some water and the ethiopian said here is water, what hinders me from being baptized? and then philip baptized him. Hmm and this is after the death of Jesus and with water too, how can that be??? Sorry just being sarcastic, please forgive me, it’s late and I am only human.
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Tom_of_Assisi
Guest
The, uh, “witches” I have known here in Oregon (the people who claim to practice Wicca) really don’t practice any religion–they have an anything goes mentality in terms of personal behavior, and some of them seem to think they can place spells on people (perhaps not unlike Harry Potter), but they don’t seem to worship anyone or anything. Some maintain that they engage in the highly spiritual practice of “earth worship,” but how do you worship the earth…the earth is a big ball of dirt…how do you worship a ball of dirt?
It really boils down to what Bertrand Russell (or perhaps it was another atheistic “philosopher”) said–“What we (atheists) find so objectionable about Christianity is its sexual mores.” Similarily, it seems, most pagans reject Christianity because it interferes with their, uh, life-style “choices,” rather than their honest discovery that faeries are real, or that dirt is sacred, or that the great god pan is dancing outside their window or speaking to them in a dream or some such thing.
i am new to this message board, but am a long-time listener of Catholic Answers Live; I hope this post was not rude, I am just trying to learn if these pagans are really trying to be taken seriously or not.
It really boils down to what Bertrand Russell (or perhaps it was another atheistic “philosopher”) said–“What we (atheists) find so objectionable about Christianity is its sexual mores.” Similarily, it seems, most pagans reject Christianity because it interferes with their, uh, life-style “choices,” rather than their honest discovery that faeries are real, or that dirt is sacred, or that the great god pan is dancing outside their window or speaking to them in a dream or some such thing.
i am new to this message board, but am a long-time listener of Catholic Answers Live; I hope this post was not rude, I am just trying to learn if these pagans are really trying to be taken seriously or not.
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Heathen_Dawn
Guest
I’m an ex-atheist. I was raised an atheist—no Gods, no spirits, no afterlife. For a brief period (1997–9) I tried Orthodox Judaism, but it was too burdensome (a HUGE law-code to keep) and unbelievable (I couldn’t accept young-earth creationism). I returned to atheism after that, but I just knew atheism wasn’t my way. I tried to add a spirituality based on nature-worship, called naturalistic pantheism. Through that, I found Wicca.
It’s on the middle road between transcendence (world-denial) and immanence (rejection of higher beings). I get to affirm life and nature, and at the same time to build a relationship with the Gods. The best of both worlds.
No Christian background. I know my Christianity, I’ve heard the (Protestant, anyway) gospel a thousand times, and I reject it because I find it both morally repulsive (the idea that all nonbelievers get to be tortured for eternity) and factually unsupported (no literal Adam, therefore no Original Sin, therefore no need for a saviour).
Tom of Assisi:
Heathen Dawn, with an N. A very common mistake on all boards I post on. It’s my magical name. And I’m a man, not a woman.
I don’t know what the motivation of Graves and Gardner was, but I certainly don’t see Wicca as a licence to have free sex. In fact I’m not settling for anything less than a serious relationship with a girl. On the other hand, the Christian practice of abstinence and avoiding even talk about sex is counterproductive. It produces sexually repressed men who are capable of committing rape to fulfill their desire.
Wicca was made up by Gerald Gardner in the 1940s. I’m not ashamed of that fact. There was a time when Christianity was only 50 years old too.The Wicca that she refers to is a relatively “new” and made up religion (circa 1950) this is highly documented in several of the well known books (Cunningham) to date that the actual writings of those pre-Christian worshipers (those not yet converted) were destroyed for fear of persecution during the “burning times”. So most of the information has been lost through oral tradition and thus the rest was made up or rather “assumed” to put it PC.
All religions are man-made. Only the Gods preexist mankind.
That bit sets my sceptical bell ringing.
“Eventually come to their senses”?! As if paganism were some kind of insanity? How … never mind.
Satanism is an atheistic philosophy of self-worship. It’s nothing to do with paganism.
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