Non-denominational Christians

[Sean_Boyle]

First off …

Non-denominational Christians are a denomination of christianity. By defination, and in practice.

Will someone please invite me a Catholic to preach at there non-denominational christian church on Easter morning?? If no taker, then we will have to assume that nondoms have an exclusivity that excludes a Catholic from preaching how he was lead by the holy spirit to believe that Christ started the Catholic Church and still presides there.

 

[awantz]

First off …

Non-denominational Christians are a denomination of christianity. By defination, and in practice.

Will someone please invite me a Catholic to preach at there non-denominational christian church on Easter morning?? If no taker, then we will have to assume that nondoms have an exclusivity that excludes a Catholic from preaching how he was lead by the holy spirit to believe that Christ started the Catholic Church and still presides there.

I’d be more than happy to have you preach at my church, but it can’t be Easter morning, because we are not having anyone preach this Sunday. Instead, we are putting on a play, Through the Eyes of Peter.

 

[arcadia]

Arcadia,

I asked you to read the Book of Numbers, Chapter 16 because you posted this:

Arcadia: "**The use of titles separates and exhaults and **demeans. We are all brothers. Do you agree? I have seen people almost worship a pastor or a priest. This is not healthy for the pastor or the church member. Close friends and peers are called by their first names. **By refraining from the titles **we can be closer as friends and brothers. Your priest will still be respected, perhaps more so. He will still be considerd a teacher for that is what he does. However, by dropping the titles we find ourselves looking less to man and more to God."

I asked you to read Numbers 16 because your attitude (from what you wrote above) reminds me of the attitude of Korah and his cohorts:

“With them were 250 Israelite men, well-known community leaders who had been appointed members of the council. They came as a group to oppose Moses and Aaron and said to them, ‘You have gone too far! The whole community is holy, every one of them, and the LORD is with them. Why then do you set yourselves above the LORD’s assembly?’” (Numbers 16:2-3)

The point from Numbers 16 is that God does establish earthly figures of authority–Moses in the OT and the Apostles in the NT. When you go against those in authority, you go against God Himself.

The Church established by Christ has people of authority too:

And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then **workers of **miracles, also those having gifts of healing, those able to help others, those with gifts of administration, and those speaking in different kinds of tongues. Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues? Do all interpret? (1 Corinthians 12:28-30)

And here is a question for you. Who is the “Moses” of Christianity today? Who are the “Apostles” of Christianity today?

"Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually. And God, (not man but God) has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps…

Yes God. He appoints and we know that the gifts you mentioned are given by the Holy Spirit who is indeed God.

Did I say that there were no leaders or people that had positions of authority? No. I also don’t see people saying Pastor Moses or Pastor Jesus or even Father Peter. Paul calls himself Paul. Paul sometimes he mentions his position as an Apostle for that is what and there may be more than one Paul around but usually it is just Paul or Paul, Silvanus, and Timothy. Is he a leader? Yes. Is he an authority? Yes. Of course there are leaders and authorities.
Have I been used by God for his healing people? Please do not call me Healer Rob.

You are confusing the command of Jesus concerning titles with descriptions of the persons vocation or their position in the Church. Can you see the difference between Pastor Rob and Rob one of the pastors at the Church? I hear it all the time. “Hi Pastor Andrew!” Why do we not say "hi builder Bob? " We know what he does yet we call him by his name not by his title.

Jesus made a clear request. Period. Do not twist scripture to fit with your practice.

Moses was a Prophet. He spoke for God. To disobey Moses was to disobey God. This was confirmed in innumerable ways. The sons of Korah were in rebellion to Moses, God’s agent and God himself.

The Catholic church is certainly not Moses of today. It does not represent God. God represented himself through his son Jesus.
You asked “Who are Moses and the Apostles of Christianity today?” The Moses is Jesus Christ. The Apostles are the sent ones, these are the missionaries that operate in all the gifts of the Holy Spirit! He is very much alive. But the bible also says that we Christs ambassators. We represent him.

Man continues trying to usurp the position of God almighty. " I speak for God!" Or, “I have this pedigree so listen to me!” And by the way give me some money!

Thank God the Bible was liberated so that we can clearly see God’s heart.

in love,
Father Arcadia

 

[guanophore]

You are confusing the command of Jesus concerning titles with descriptions of the persons vocation or their position in the Church. Can you see the difference between Pastor Rob and Rob one of the pastors at the Church?

No

I hear it all the time. “Hi Pastor Andrew!” Why do we not say "hi builder Bob? " We know what he does yet we call him by his name not by his title.

So, do you also object to Peter calling Paul 'brother". And how is that different than calling someone “father”?

Jesus made a clear request. Period. Do not twist scripture to fit with your practice.

Have you cut off your hands and put out your eyes, or are you going to purport that these parts have never sinned against you?

The Catholic church is certainly not Moses of today.  It does not represent God.  God represented himself through his son Jesus.

This is a pretty blatant (and disrespectful) statement. It is as if you are saying that Jesus is not present in Catholics, and that the Catholic Church is not able to represent Jesus to the world. One must wonder why you are here on this forum, if you believe that. Is it your goal to convince all of us lost Catholics that we belong to a dead organization, that is not of God?

You asked “Who are Moses and the Apostles of Christianity today?” The Moses is Jesus Christ. The Apostles are the sent ones, these are the missionaries that operate in all the gifts of the Holy Spirit! He is very much alive. But the bible also says that we Christs ambassators. We represent him.

Here you are saying that “we” represent Jesus, clearly these “we” persons not being Catholic, since the Catholic Church does not represent God. Your reference to the gifts leaves one with the impression that only the Pentecostal protestants are “true” Christians.

Thank God the Bible was liberated so that we can clearly see God’s heart.

in love,
Father Arcadia

Please explain what you mean about the bible being liberated. I would also encourage you to search the word bible and read the thread we had about this not too long ago. Someone inquired about the CC forbidding the reading of scripture.

 

[hosemonkey]

What you have written above is true, but you are not carrying the interpretation to its logical conclusion.

To begin, I want to state that being a member of the Catholic Church does not gain a man salvation. Likewise, not being a member does not guarantee a man damnation.

However, I would, in particular, call your attention to the last quote in your statement. “He who does the will of my Father in Heaven…” The will of the Father in Heaven is that we all be united in one Church under one Earthly shepherd. This is why the Father revealed Christs identity to Peter. It is also why Christ said that He would found his Church on Peter, and also why, before Christ ascended into Heaven, He appointed Peter to shepherd the flock.

I would submit to you that by not belonging to the Catholic Church, especially in light of the knowledge you are gaining here, you are being deliberately disobedient and are not doing the will of the Father in Heaven.

When a man knows that the Catholic Church is the Church founded by Christ, and deliberately remains outside of it, he displays flagrant disobedience. He is not following Christ, but is following his own path.

So, I think you’re right. What saves a man is obedience to Christ. A man must be obedient to the teachings of Christ of which he reasonably has knowledge of, without simple willfull refusal to acknowledge those teachings. In light of this, not belonging to the Catholic Church is extremely disobedient, especially to one such as yourself who has knowledge of its truth and has been plainly witnessed to.

It is the unchanging doctrine of the Church that “Extra Ecclesiam, Nulla Salus.” Meaning that outside the Church, none can be saved. If you have knowledge that the teachings of the Church are true and willfully reject them, you are damned. If you have no knowledge of the teachings of the Church, then you are left to the mercy of God. Are protestants saved? Maybe.

 

[arcadia]

You are confusing the command of Jesus concerning titles with descriptions of the persons vocation or their position in the Church. Can you see the difference between Pastor Rob and Rob one of the pastors at the Church?

No

So, do you also object to Peter calling Paul 'brother". And how is that different than calling someone “father”?

Have you cut off your hands and put out your eyes, or are you going to purport that these parts have never sinned against you?

This is a pretty blatant (and disrespectful) statement. It is as if you are saying that Jesus is not present in Catholics, and that the Catholic Church is not able to represent Jesus to the world. One must wonder why you are here on this forum, if you believe that. Is it your goal to convince all of us lost Catholics that we belong to a dead organization, that is not of God?

Here you are saying that “we” represent Jesus, clearly these “we” persons not being Catholic, since the Catholic Church does not represent God. Your reference to the gifts leaves one with the impression that only the Pentecostal protestants are “true” Christians.

Please explain what you mean about the bible being liberated. I would also encourage you to search the word bible and read the thread we had about this not too long ago. Someone inquired about the CC forbidding the reading of scripture.

It’s too bad that you cannot see the difference between “Pastor Rob” and Rob who is one of the pastors. I cannot force you to see the difference but I will ask my father help you.

Have you cut off your hands? No? Why not? I suppose it is because your hands have not caused you to sin. You are the master of your hands. If you were not the master of your hands it would be good to cut them off because it would be better to lose them and go to heaven then to keep them and not go.This is irrelevant to the command of Jesus regarding the calling of certain brothers the more exhaulted title of Father.

Peter and Paul are truly brothers under God their father and mine. To call someone brother is indeed the command of Jesus. You asked how is this different from calling somone Father? I have answered this many times. The difference is obvious. Jesus said gave the command. I am following Him and the bible and not the practices that are in opposition to the word of God.

I have always been respectful. I clarify, those persons in the Catholic and otherwise Christian Church who love the Lord with their whole heart and mind and strengh and their neighbor as themselves, those represent Jesus.

An organization with all of it’s flaws and human agendas does not. When I say ‘we’ I mean believers. We represent Jesus. To say that the Catholic church represents Jesus implies that only they do. I understand that many catholics believe this though.

Respectfully,
Arcadia

 

[arcadia]

It is the unchanging doctrine of the Church that “Extra Ecclesiam, Nulla Salus.” Meaning that outside the Church, none can be saved. If you have knowledge that the teachings of the Church are true and willfully reject them, you are damned. If you have no knowledge of the teachings of the Church, then you are left to the mercy of God. Are protestants saved? Maybe.

I agree. We (believers and disciples) are the Church. I am the Church. He is the way the truth and the life. Love God with all you heart, mind and strength. Follow him. Be led by the Spirit. Obey him.

Does "Extra Ecclesiam, Nulla Salus mean that only members of the Catholic Church are saved?

In truth,

arcadia

 

[hosemonkey]

I agree. We (believers and disciples) are the Church. I am the Church. He is the way the truth and the life. Love God with all you heart, mind and strength. Follow him. Be led by the Spirit. Obey him.

Does "Extra Ecclesiam, Nulla Salus mean that only members of the Catholic Church are saved?

In truth,

arcadia

“Extra Ecclesiam, Nulla Salus” means that if you are aware that the teachings of the Catholic Church are true and you willfully reject them, you will not be saved. There is some possibility that otherwise well-disposed people will be saved, but that is up to the mercy of God. In spite of our modern desire to be “liked” by others, the doctrine of the Holy Roman Catholic Church has never changed in this regard.
On another point: It is disrespectful for protestants to come onto a Catholic forum and attempt to disprove or contradict Catholic doctrine and practice. If you are here to learn and observe, fine, but to rehash the same tired, old protestant rants about "call no man Father etc. serve no useful purpose. Not only do I call my priest “Father”, I also kiss his hands, because he brings to me Our Lord in the Most Holy Sacrament. The Sacramental Lord that protestants reject, the Lord who instituted the Holy Eucharist on this very day, before He suffered. If you reject this Most Holy Sacrament, there is little hope for you.

 

[Janet_S]

Arcadia said: * “And God, (not man but God) has appointed these in the church: first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps…Yes God. He appoints and we know that the gifts you mentioned are given by the Holy Spirit who is indeed God.”

*My response: How was the successor to Judas appointed? I agree it was God the Holy Spirit, but He worked through **men. ** Here’s how it happened:

Peter said: “Therefore it is necessary to choose one of the men who have been with us the whole time the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, beginning from John’s baptism to the time when Jesus was taken up from us. For one of these must become a witness with us of his resurrection.” So they proposed two men: Joseph called Barsabbas (also known as Justus) and Matthias. Then they prayed, “Lord, you know everyone’s heart. Show us which of these two you have chosen to take over this apostolic ministry, which Judas left to go where he belongs.” Then they cast lots, and the lot fell to Matthias; so he was added to the eleven apostles. (Acts 1:21-26)

Arcadia said: “You are confusing the command of Jesus concerning titles with descriptions of the persons vocation or their position in the Church.”

My response: I guess I am confusing the two–I thought you objected to both the position and the title. But are you now saying you object only to the title? For example, you don’t object that the CC has a Pope, bishops, priests, deacons, nuns, and lay ministers, but you do object that we address them by a title? Would it be okay if we called the Pope “Joseph” (his real name)?

Arcadia said: “Jesus made a clear request. Period. Do not twist scripture to fit with your practice.”

My response: So please answer this question: Is it true that you refuse to call anyone teacher, rabbi, doctor, master, or father because of what Jesus commanded in Matthew 23? I would like a yes or no answer please.

Arcadia said: “Thank God the Bible was liberated so that we can clearly see God’s heart.”

My response: I too would like to hear what you mean by this.

Arcadia said: “The Catholic church is certainly not Moses of today. It does not represent God. God represented himself through his son Jesus. You asked “Who are Moses and the Apostles of Christianity today?” The Moses is Jesus Christ. The Apostles are the sent ones, these are the missionaries that operate in all the gifts of the Holy Spirit! He is very much alive. But the bible also says that we Christs ambassators. We represent him.”

My response: Of course, we Catholics agree that Christ is the head of the Church. But I am talking about people of earthly authority. When Christ ascended to the Father, He left the Apostles in charge of His Church on earth. They appointed successors (see Acts 1). Likewise when Moses died, he handed on the Torah to his successor (Joshua) who handed it on to the Judges, etc. I showed you in 1 Corinthians 12 “And in the church God has appointed first of all apostles.” Please give me names of people today you believe are appointed by God to be Apostles. Since the Bible says they are designated first, they should be known to all Christians. Who are they?

 

[RNRobert]

Please explain what you mean about the bible being liberated. I would also encourage you to search the word bible and read the thread we had about this not too long ago. Someone inquired about the CC forbidding the reading of scripture.

I think what he means is that the mean old Catholic Church kept the Bible locked up in a dungeon so no one could read it until Martin Luther came along and freed it for everyone to read.

 

[contramundum7]

what makes you a Catholic?

The Catholic Church was founded by Jesus Christ, not a human being like all the other Christian (and quote/unquote Christian) religions… Therefore, it stands to reason, the RC Church would have “more truth” than them…

Also, unless someone has actually investigated the Catholic religion by going through an RCIA class (where you are free to ask as many questions as u like, etc…)… I don’t put much “validity” on his/her opinions about the Catholic Church…

I suggest other Catholics do the same.

 

[contramundum7]

Hi Conundrum, you said:

No church saves. I repeat, no denomination, no organization no matter how old. No institution can save you. Only Jesus!
" I am the way the truth and the life. No one, no one ,comes to the father except through me." (Jn14:6) You name is either written in his book of life or it isn’t. Period. Therefore, since a Christian is a follower or disciple of Christ you must be a Christian to be saved. Not a Christian in name only. You cannot be a Christian just because you grew up in a Christian home either. Jesus said “MOST ASSUREDLEY, I say to you, unless one is born of the water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.” (Jn 3:8) He who belives in HIM is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God" Jn 3:19 You cannot be partially pregnant. You are , or you are not. Same with salvation. You are or you are not. Period. You see he went to to prepare a place for his own. “Not everyone who says to me. Lord, Lord shall enter into the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.“Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord have we not prophesied in Your name and cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in your name?” And I will declare to them, I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!” Therefore whoever hears these saying of mineand does them…

Worshipping in Spirit and in Truth,

arcadia

You either are not Catholic and/or do not understand the Catholic faith. In any case, you are right 2 say that only Jesus saves. The Church teaches that. But you are lacking in your understanding of God’s mercy. God can and does save people who have never heard of Jesus… (which is many, many people, because human beings existed for thousands and thousands of years before Jesus came to us…). It is only the ones who have heard of him and reject him (some of whom are “Christians”) who don’t make it to Heaven… (or Purgatory, then Heaven).
Jesus said that not eveyrone who says “Lord, Lord” will enter the kingdom of Heaven but only he who does the will of the Father… So apparently, evne if you are “born again”, if you do not do the will of the Father, you will not be allowed into Heaven… The will of the Father is to do ALL that Jesus Christ commands… (not just what YOU feel is “right”…) (Matthew 25:31). :harp:

 

[StevenFrancis]

Thinking about things and listening to what Catholics have to say here, I have come to the conclusion that the only Christianity that makes any sense to me is non-denominational Christianity. Are there many non-denominational Christians here?

Non denominational Christian Churches, and Denominational ones for that matter are hurting Christianity badly. I take comfort in the fact that Jesus told us this:

[15] He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?”
[16] Simon Peter replied, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
[17] And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven.
[18] And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it.
[19] I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

So, I can be disappointed, and sadden at all the twists and turns that are taken, but in the end, I have faith that His Church will be united under the seat of Peter, as intended by the Christ. In the fullness of time, all will understand, and all will be one.

Our little arguments here will seem small and silly.

Blessed Good Friday. Fear not, my Catholic brothers and sisters. Stand strong and firm. God has promised to protect us against everything. Our Church WILL stand.

Peace,

Steven

 

[contramundum7]

Non denominational Christian Churches, and Denominational ones for that matter are hurting Christianity badly. I take comfort in the fact that Jesus told us this:

[15] He said to them, “But who do you say that I am?”
[16] Simon Peter replied, “You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.”
[17] And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven.
[18] And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it.
[19] I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

So, I can be disappointed, and sadden at all the twists and turns that are taken, but in the end, I have faith that His Church will be united under the seat of Peter, as intended by the Christ. In the fullness of time, all will understand, and all will be one.

Our little arguments here will seem small and silly.

Blessed Good Friday. Fear not, my Catholic brothers and sisters. Stand strong and firm. God has promised to protect us against everything. Our Church WILL stand.

Peace,

Steven

A big Amen…
And about all the arguments… We should all check our spirits before answering some of the Posts here…

 

[arcadia]

“Extra Ecclesiam, Nulla Salus” means that if you are aware that the teachings of the Catholic Church are true and you willfully reject them, you will not be saved. There is some possibility that otherwise well-disposed people will be saved, but that is up to the mercy of God. In spite of our modern desire to be “liked” by others, the doctrine of the Holy Roman Catholic Church has never changed in this regard.
On another point: It is disrespectful for protestants to come onto a Catholic forum and attempt to disprove or contradict Catholic doctrine and practice. If you are here to learn and observe, fine, but to rehash the same tired, old protestant rants about "call no man Father etc. serve no useful purpose. Not only do I call my priest “Father”, I also kiss his hands, because he brings to me Our Lord in the Most Holy Sacrament. The Sacramental Lord that protestants reject, the Lord who instituted the Holy Eucharist on this very day, before He suffered. If you reject this Most Holy Sacrament, there is little hope for you.

Well I guess we disagree on some things. First of all I have never been disrespectful. People have accused me of twisting scripture so i figured if level is going to be brought down so be it. I have never tried to twist scripture but have taken it at face value.

“Extra Ecclesiam, Nulla Salus” so then I guess the the memebers of the Eastern Orthodox chuch are damned too and the members of thr Old Catholic Church etc etc. You said there is a possiblity of some other well-disposed people will be saved then your have contradicted your own “Extra Ecclesiam, Nulla Salus”.

We are all brothers that is Jesus’ point not mine. I am a priest! The veil is torn! You are a priest! I am a king and you are a king under Jesus our King. Humble, serving kings but kings none the less. We have a large calling. The man in the robes is another man with a calling. He is not my daddy and I am not his child. We have one father in heaven. Didn’t Jesus say that? Do we need leaders? Yes. Paul appointed elders to help look after the church. They are to be men of integrity having but one wife etc. Still the command for Jesus stands.

Some tried to explain this his command about fathers has something to with body parts causing us to sin. Where is the connection? They are both true because he said them. Also because they make sense and you and I both know it. Jesus said that if a body part causes you to sin cut it off. This true too. It does negate the His command in regards to calling people “Father.” Period. Fortunately we are the masters of the body part so this is not necessary. Some though may have made themselves enuchs for this reason.

Some you have said the catholic church is infallible. Do you actually read your Bibles? In Cranbook where I grew up our Catholic priest (Fr. Buckley)abused many little boys that were my age at the time. He later moved to Penticton and then went to jail. Does he represent God? No? Of course not. How about Ted Haggard? How about you! All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. We are the church! We will all stand before the judgment seat of Christ individually.

We may be His children and His sheep but we are still Kings! Wow. Can you receive this? You are a King!

My isn’t just easier to fallow man than to fallow God. Accept the docterine of infallibility. Accept the practices that contridct scripture. Accept that you are a little child and much too simple to understand and interpret scripture. These are your words.

But I disagree with you. I say you are smart and can interpret scripture and the Bible is a treasure map that leads you to the treasure, God Himself. God wants a friendship with you. He loves you. He died for you and he lives.

Why not be led by the Holy Spirit? You can hear his voice. You can have a conversation with him. Those that led by the Spirit of God, Those are the sons of God. It takes work. You may have to go your own way and spend some quiet time. You may have leave friends. You may have to put up with persecution. You may be called a heretic.

You actually kiss his hands?

I think that many of you have missed the point. By reading the bible we learn about him but by listening we can know him the one whom we had belived in.

convicted?

Arcadia

 

[hosemonkey]

Well I guess we disagree on some things. First of all I have never been disrespectful. People have accused me of twisting scripture so i figured if level is going to be brought down so be it. I have never tried to twist scripture but have taken it at face value.

“Extra Ecclesiam, Nulla Salus” so then I guess the the memebers of the Eastern Orthodox chuch are damned too and the members of thr Old Catholic Church etc etc. You said there is a possiblity of some other well-disposed people will be saved then your have contradicted your own “Extra Ecclesiam, Nulla Salus”.

We are all brothers that is Jesus’ point not mine. I am a priest! The veil is torn! You are a priest! I am a king and you are a king under Jesus our King. Humble, serving kings but kings none the less. We have a large calling. The man in the robes is another man with a calling. He is not my daddy and I am not his child. We have one father in heaven. Didn’t Jesus say that? Do we need leaders? Yes. Paul appointed elders to help look after the church. They are to be men of integrity having but one wife etc. Still the command for Jesus stands.

Some you have said the catholic church is infallible. Do you actually read your Bibles? In Cranbook where I grew up our Catholic priest (Fr. Buckley)abused many little boys that were my age at the time. He later moved to Penticton and then went to jail. Does he represent God? No? Of course not. How about Ted Haggard? How about you! All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. We are the church! We will all stand before the judgment seat of Christ individually.

We may be His children and His sheep but we are still Kings! Wow. Can you receive this? You are a King!

But I disagree with you. I say you are smart and can interpret scripture and the Bible is a treasure map that leads you to the treasure, God Himself. God wants a friendship with you. He loves you. He died for you and he lives.

Why not be led by the Holy Spirit? You can hear his voice. You can have a conversation with him. Those that led by the Spirit of God, Those are the sons of God. It takes work. You may have to go your own way and spend some quiet time. You may have leave friends. You may have to put up with persecution. You may be called a heretic.

You actually kiss his hands?

I think that many of you have missed the point. By reading the bible we learn about him but by listening we can know him the one whom we had belived in.

convicted?

Arcadia

You are correct, we disagree on many things.
You are NOT a priest and I am not a king.
We are ordinary humans, trying, as best we can, to understand the will of God. I am sorry that a priest was guilty of breaking his vows and committing such an ugly sin. But that priest was not infallible and was more accountable for his sins , by virtue of his office, than an ordinary man. People love this scandal in the Church, because the Catholic Church is held to a higher standard than all others, even though there are just as many protestant “Pastor” child molesters as there are Catholic. It just is not as juicy and the media does not give it that much attention. “Extra Ecclesiam, Nulla Salus” does not apply to the Orthodox nor to the Old Catholics. Although they are schismatic and separated from Rome, they have valid sacraments and valid apostolic succession, something that you protestants do not have. You are arrogant in your disobedience, but you are right in what it represents to be Catholic. To quote and paraphrase your words,“Why not be led by the Holy Spirit? You can hear his voice. You can have a conversation with him. Those that led by the Spirit of God, Those are the sons of God. It takes work. You may have to go your own way and spend some quiet time. You may have leave friends. You may have to put up with persecution. You may have to obey an infallible magisterium. You may have to acknowlege that the Catholic Church contains the fullness of Christ’s Gospel. You will receive Our Lord Jesus Christ in the Holy Eucharist, Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity for as often as you receive Holy Communion worthily. The Holy Eucharist, consecrated by the hands of the priest, whose hands I kiss.The Real Jesus, not a cracker and some grape juice. “This is My Body, this is My Blood.” You cannot get any closer to Our Lord than that. You may be called a heretic.”
This is what it represents to be a member of the Church founded by Our Lord Jesus Christ Himself. All others are but a mere shadow.

 

[arcadia]

You are correct, we disagree on many things.
You are NOT a priest and I am not a king.
We are ordinary humans, trying, as best we can, to understand the will of God.

This is the crux. Jesus is the King of kings the bible says so in Timothy and in Revelation. He is not the king of fools nor the king of ordinary humans. If you really think you are ordinary then this is a limiting belief. I wonder where you get this doctrine from? Certainly not the bible. If he is your king then you are a king. Rev 1: 5-6 To him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood, and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion, forever and ever. Amen. Luke 22:26-30, 1Ti 6:15. The point is that we are to be like Jesus who is our role model. Did he not say that we would do greater works because he is going to the father? God himself told me I was king. He spoke right into my heart. You may think i am a liar but this true. You may thik I am arrogant but it is only through his grace that a sinner like me can be clean and made to be a king. I did not earn it and I do not deserve it but by his grace i am what he says I am.

king arcadia

 

[Janet_S]

We are all brothers that is Jesus’ point not mine. I am a priest! The veil is torn! You are a priest! I am a king and you are a king under Jesus our King. Humble, serving kings but kings none the less. We have a large calling. The man in the robes is another man with a calling. He is not my daddy and I am not his child. We have one father in heaven. Didn’t Jesus say that? Do we need leaders? Yes. Paul appointed elders to help look after the church. They are to be men of integrity having but one wife etc. Still the command for Jesus stands.

Some you have said the catholic church is infallible. Do you actually read your Bibles? In Cranbook where I grew up our Catholic priest (Fr. Buckley)abused many little boys that were my age at the time. He later moved to Penticton and then went to jail. Does he represent God? No? Of course not. How about Ted Haggard? How about you! All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. We are the church! We will all stand before the judgment seat of Christ individually.

We may be His children and His sheep but we are still Kings! Wow. Can you receive this? You are a King!

My isn’t just easier to fallow man than to fallow God. Accept the docterine of infallibility. Accept the practices that contridct scripture. Accept that you are a little child and much too simple to understand and interpret scripture. These are your words.

But I disagree with you. I say you are smart and can interpret scripture and the Bible is a treasure map that leads you to the treasure, God Himself. God wants a friendship with you. He loves you. He died for you and he lives.

Why not be led by the Holy Spirit? You can hear his voice. You can have a conversation with him. Those that led by the Spirit of God, Those are the sons of God. It takes work. You may have to go your own way and spend some quiet time. You may have leave friends. You may have to put up with persecution. You may be called a heretic.

You actually kiss his hands?

I think that many of you have missed the point. By reading the bible we learn about him but by listening we can know him the one whom we had belived in.

convicted?

Arcadia

Arcadia,

It’s very obvious to me that you don’t go by the Bible alone. You were led through the Bible by anti-Catholic teachers. You will probably deny this, but it is obvious to us Catholics who have heard these familiar charges over and over (denial that the Church’s teaches infallibly on faith and morals, disregard for the vocation of priest, belief that the CC has kept the Bible “locked up,” belief that the CC’s teaching contradict the Scripture, belief in sola Scriptura.) These are not beliefs you picked up on your own by reading the Bible. It’s too coincidental that you parrot every other anti-Catholic.

We could justify all the CC’s teaching using the Bible only, but I am sure you aren’t ready to change your mind about this yet. There is abundant evidence to support all of the CC’s beliefs. If you are ever seriously interested in studying this, the Catholic Answers website is a good place to begin.

I know you are an ex-Catholic who left the Church. I also know there are many, many people like you–ex-Catholics who are now in Protestant churches. Just be aware, though, that there is another side to the coin. Many Protestants (particularly many pastors and ministers) become convinced that the CC is the true Church when they begin a serious study of the Bible and Church history. If you ever want to read some of their stories about why they decided to take a second look at the CC, you can visit this website:

chnetwork.org/converts.htm

 

[hosemonkey]

This is the crux. Jesus is the King of kings the bible says so in Timothy and in Revelation. He is not the king of fools nor the king of ordinary humans. If you really think you are ordinary then this is a limiting belief. I wonder where you get this doctrine from? Certainly not the bible. If he is your king then you are a king. Rev 1: 5-6 To him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood, and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion, forever and ever. Amen. Luke 22:26-30, 1Ti 6:15. The point is that we are to be like Jesus who is our role model. Did he not say that we would do greater works because he is going to the father? God himself told me I was king. He spoke right into my heart. You may think i am a liar but this true. You may thik I am arrogant but it is only through his grace that a sinner like me can be clean and made to be a king. I did not earn it and I do not deserve it but by his grace i am what he says I am.

king arcadia

Much is explained if you are indeed, an apostate Catholic. You must have been very poorly educated in the basics of your Faith. As the previous poster has said, many former apostates have returned to the Church when a deeper study of the Faith that they left brought them back to the True Church. Please look further into the truth of the Church, a protestant “feel-good” theology is no substitute for the Real Presence of Jesus in the Holy Eucharist. I will pray for you.

 

[arcadia]

Arcadia,

It’s very obvious to me that you don’t go by the Bible alone. You were led through the Bible by anti-Catholic teachers. You will probably deny this, but it is obvious to us Catholics who have heard these familiar charges over and over (denial that the Church’s teaches infallibly on faith and morals, disregard for the vocation of priest, belief that the CC has kept the Bible “locked up,” belief that the CC’s teaching contradict the Scripture, belief in sola Scriptura.) These are not beliefs you picked up on your own by reading the Bible. It’s too coincidental that you parrot every other anti-Catholic.

We could justify all the CC’s teaching using the Bible only, but I am sure you aren’t ready to change your mind about this yet. There is abundant evidence to support all of the CC’s beliefs. If you are ever seriously interested in studying this, the Catholic Answers website is a good place to begin.

I know you are an ex-Catholic who left the Church. I also know there are many, many people like you–ex-Catholics who are now in Protestant churches. Just be aware, though, that there is another side to the coin. Many Protestants (particularly many pastors and ministers) become convinced that the CC is the true Church when they begin a serious study of the Bible and Church history. If you ever want to read some of their stories about why they decided to take a second look at the CC, you can visit this website:

chnetwork.org/converts.htm

Thank you Janet. You are a very kind woman. I will consider your offer in my search for the truth. I will say that though I have never heard a negitive comment from the alter or even a bible study about Catholics. This goes for Mormons and Jehovah’s witnesses too. Believe it or not. Oh, once a Pastor said that the watch tower may seem good, impling that it is not. My interest comes from my past, and present walk with Jesus. My belief in being a king comes from God’s personal dealing with me and this was backed up by scripture. I did not hear this from the pulpit either.

in respect and agape love,
arcadia