Non-denominational Christians

[guanophore]

Thank you Janet. You are a very kind woman. I will consider your offer in my search for the truth. I will say that though I have never heard a negitive comment from the alter or even a bible study about Catholics. This goes for Mormons and Jehovah’s witnesses too. Believe it or not. Oh, once a Pastor said that the watch tower may seem good, impling that it is not. My interest comes from my past, and present walk with Jesus. My belief in being a king comes from God’s personal dealing with me and this was backed up by scripture. I did not hear this from the pulpit either. In respect and agape love,
arcadia

When you say you are searching for the “truth”, what do you mean by that? From reading your posts, it sounds as if you have already found your truth?

 

[contramundum7]

We are all brothers that is Jesus’ point not mine. I am a priest! The veil is torn! You are a priest! I am a king and you are a king under Jesus our King. Humble, serving kings but kings none the less. We have a large calling. The man in the robes is another man with a calling. He is not my daddy and I am not his child. We have one father in heaven. Didn’t Jesus say that?

Answer: Yes, but what did Jesus exactly mean?

You say: Why not be led by the Holy Spirit?
I say: Many people claim to be led by the Holy Spirit. Yet there are about as many divisions/differing beliefs/interpretations as there are people in the world… It virtually means nothing to say you are led by the Holy Spirit. I heard this story in the news some years ago about a woman who threw her 8 month old child down a staircase. Fortunately, the child lived but she told people that “God told [her] to do it”.

You say: You actually kiss his hands? … By reading the bible we learn about him but by listening we can know him the one whom we had belived in.
Answer: That passage about calliing no man your father means 2 call no one your “superior”, as in don’t follow his words to the letter when/if they may conflict with the clear Word of God (and/or your conscience)… Priests are human; they CAN (& DO) mislead people, whether intentionally or otherwise…
We call them father nonetheless. For one thing it is just a title. You call your biological father “father”… You call the president “Presdident” though you may disagree with his beliefs/practices… ITs just a word for crying out loud… Also, when Jesus healed one man, he told him to present himself to the PRIESTS… He told us to “Do as they say but not as they do”…
Its funny u say “by listening, we can know him…” Catholics r the ones who listen. We listen to scripture read 2 us by readers and the priest @ Mass…every day (except Monday). If you go to daily & Sun. Mass for 3 yrs, u will hear the entire Bible… So who is it who is not listening?? In Protestant “churches” scripture is read, verbatim, 2-6% of the time (on Sunday). In the Catholic Church, it is read 26% of the time… and if i am not mistaken, those statistics were discovered by a Protestant…
I pray you are not rejecting the Catholic Church out of pride - the pride of not wanting to admit that you may have been wrong about a few things…
God bless.
One more thing: The Catholic Church teaches that all baptized Christians (or is it just Catholic ones??? Sorry, i’m not sure… but someone out there is…), but anyway, it teaches we are all “Priest, Prophet and King”… But the ministerial priesthood is for only a few.
Only priests can consecrate the Host (actually Jesus consecrates the host through the priest).
Anyway, i realize you have been programmed to think as a Protestant. Most of the services on TV (etc) are Protestant… They probably put out more literature than Catholics(?)… but that doesn’t mean they are rigfht. They are right about a few things… but wrong about many others…

 

[arcadia]

When you say you are searching for the “truth”, what do you mean by that? From reading your posts, it sounds as if you have already found your truth?

2 men went into a church. One said I thank you Lord that I fast 2x per, week, that I tithe every last thing and that I am not like that poor man over there who in the course of his job finds himself in sin. The other man on his knees bawling like a baby before the terrible majesty of the holy almighty God of the universe. Knowing that he cannot measure up. says to God you Lord what am to do with myself. Woa unto me a man of unclean lips, a sinner, God help me…

this is my truth,
arcadia
peace and happy Easter

 

[Holly3278]

I’m not non-denominational but I do not belong to any formal denomination. I consider myself to be an Independent Fundamentalist Baptist.

 

[happygal]

I’m attached to a non denominational church, so what does the OP really wanted to ask?? I don’t quite understand…~~

 

[Janet_S]

I’m attached to a non denominational church, so what does the OP really wanted to ask?? I don’t quite understand…~~

That’s a good question. This thread has been all over the place. Let me give you some background on Jack Hawkins, the OP. This is how he opened the thread:

Jack: “Thinking about things and listening to what Catholics have to say here, I have come to the conclusion that the only Christianity that makes any sense to me is non-denominational Christianity. Are there many non-denominational Christians here?”

Keep in mind Jack says he is an English doctor, he is a former Pentecostal, his wife is a Catholic, and he is preparing to convert to Catholicism through RCIA (Rite of Christian Initiation of Adults), (perhaps he was brought into the Church last night at Easter Vigil.)

Jack has been a very busy poster on this forum until recently. He **almost always argues and disagrees with the Catholics **here who support Catholic Church teaching, especially regarding its moral teachings (artificial birth control, abortion, and especially in vitro fertilization).

So if you are confused by the OP, join the club. It’s all very perplexing.

 

[jmcrae]

I’m attached to a non denominational church, so what does the OP really wanted to ask?? I don’t quite understand…~~

I think he just wanted to get a rise out of the Catholics on this Board. (He succeeded.)

 

[guanophore]

2 men went into a church. One said I thank you Lord that I fast 2x per, week, that I tithe every last thing and that I am not like that poor man over there who in the course of his job finds himself in sin. The other man on his knees bawling like a baby before the terrible majesty of the holy almighty God of the universe. Knowing that he cannot measure up. says to God you Lord what am to do with myself. Woa unto me a man of unclean lips, a sinner, God help me…

this is my truth,
arcadia
peace and happy Easter

Having found it, why are you here?

 

[eliasaph99]

This is the crux. Jesus is the King of kings the bible says so in Timothy and in Revelation. He is not the king of fools nor the king of ordinary humans. If you really think you are ordinary then this is a limiting belief. I wonder where you get this doctrine from? Certainly not the bible. If he is your king then you are a king. Rev 1: 5-6 To him who loved us and washed us from our sins in His own blood, and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion, forever and ever. Amen. Luke 22:26-30, 1Ti 6:15. The point is that we are to be like Jesus who is our role model. Did he not say that we would do greater works because he is going to the father? God himself told me I was king. He spoke right into my heart. You may think i am a liar but this true. You may thik I am arrogant but it is only through his grace that a sinner like me can be clean and made to be a king. I did not earn it and I do not deserve it but by his grace i am what he says I am.

king arcadia

That is the strangest reading of the phrase “King of kings” that I have ever come across.

The phrase “King of kings” does not imply that every Christian is a king. It is an intensifier signifying that Christ is King over the entire Earth. It means that He rules even the rulers. It does not mean, nor have I ever read or heard it intrepreted to mean that if Christ is your king, then you are a king.

That reading is just plain weird.

 

[arcadia]

That is the strangest reading of the phrase “King of kings” that I have ever come across.

The phrase “King of kings” does not imply that every Christian is a king. It is an intensifier signifying that Christ is King over the entire Earth. It means that He rules even the rulers. It does not mean, nor have I ever read or heard it intrepreted to mean that if Christ is your king, then you are a king.

That reading is just plain weird.

Well I guess you are really saying that in all all honesty you are ignorant. A catholic poster named Contradundrum7 wrote… "One more thing: The Catholic Church teaches that all baptized Christians (or is it just Catholic ones??? Sorry, i’m not sure… but someone out there is…), but anyway, it teaches we are all “Priest, Prophet and King”.( pg 17 of this thread)

What about Rev 1:5-6 ? “To him who loved us and washed away our sins in his own blood and has made us kings and priest to His God and Father…” There are other scriptures too that clearly state the same thing ( I have read them, but I have to find them)

…So sorry about that brother, but you are more than what your limiting beliefs are. But that is good news isn’t it?

Let me ask you what does it mean for us to be called a servant king? How about a priest? How about a prophet? Overcomer?

People does anyone else agree with me that we are more than what we are manifesting to the world? ( I know some of you think of me as a brother) Don’t Christians and Catholic Christians equally look a lot like the world? Similar houses, cars, jobs, worries, divorce rates, etc? I am talking about me too.

I am beginning to understand that I have wandered all over the map with my posts. Please forgive me. It was my first forum. Next time I will stay on topic.

with respect and love,

your friend arcadia

 

[eliasaph99]

Well I guess you are really saying that in all all honesty you are ignorant. A catholic poster named Contradundrum7 wrote… "One more thing: The Catholic Church teaches that all baptized Christians (or is it just Catholic ones??? Sorry, i’m not sure… but someone out there is…), but anyway, it teaches we are all “Priest, Prophet and King”.( pg 17 of this thread)

What about Rev 1:5-6 ? “To him who loved us and washed away our sins in his own blood and has made us kings and priest to His God and Father…” There are other scriptures too that clearly state the same thing ( I have read them, but I have to find them)

…So sorry about that brother, but you are more than what your limiting beliefs are. But that is good news isn’t it?

Let me ask you what does it mean for us to be called a servant king? How about a priest? How about a prophet? Overcomer?

People does anyone else agree with me that we are more than what we are manifesting to the world? ( I know some of you think of me as a brother) Don’t Christians and Catholic Christians equally look a lot like the world? Similar houses, cars, jobs, worries, divorce rates, etc? I am talking about me too.

I am beginning to understand that I have wandered all over the map with my posts. Please forgive me. It was my first forum. Next time I will stay on topic.

with respect and love,

your friend arcadia

First, you need to reread my post. I didn’t say that there is no rationale for a kingship of believers. I said that the phrase “King of kings” is not meant to imply that we are kings. As I said, it is a phrase which emphasizes that Christ rules even the rulers of the Earth. It does not communicate that we are kings.

If you want some support for the idea we are kings, you will have to look elsewhere.

As for what the Church teaches, here it is, from the Catechism:

Participation in Christ’s kingly office

908 By his obedience unto death,444 Christ communicated to his disciples the gift of royal freedom, so that they might “by the self-abnegation of a holy life, overcome the reign of sin in themselves”:445

That man is rightly called a king who makes his own body an obedient subject and, by governing himself with suitable rigor, refuses to let his passions breed rebellion in his soul, for he exercises a kind of royal power over himself. And because he knows how to rule his own person as king, so too does he sit as its judge. He will not let himself be imprisoned by sin, or thrown headlong into wickedness.446

909 "Moreover, by uniting their forces let the laity so remedy the institutions and conditions of the world when the latter are an inducement to sin, that these may be conformed to the norms of justice, favoring rather than hindering the practice of virtue. By so doing they will impregnate culture and human works with a moral value."447

910 "The laity can also feel called, or be in fact called, to cooperate with their pastors in the service of the ecclesial community, for the sake of its growth and life. This can be done through the exercise of different kinds of ministries according to the grace and charisms which the Lord has been pleased to bestow on them."448

911 In the Church, "lay members of the Christian faithful can cooperate in the exercise of this power [of governance] in accord with the norm of law."449 And so the Church provides for their presence at particular councils, diocesan synods, pastoral councils; the exercise of the pastoral care of a parish, collaboration in finance committees, and participation in ecclesiastical tribunals, etc.450

912 The faithful should "distinguish carefully between the rights and the duties which they have as belonging to the Church and those which fall to them as members of the human society. They will strive to unite the two harmoniously, remembering that in every temporal affair they are to be guided by a Christian conscience, since no human activity, even of the temporal order, can be withdrawn from God’s dominion."451

913 “Thus, every person, through these gifts given to him, is at once the witness and the living instrument of the mission of the Church itself 'according to the measure of Christ’s bestowal.”'452

444 Cf. Phil 2:8-9.
445 LG 36.
446 St. Ambrose, Psal. 118:14:30L 15:1476.
447 LG 36 § 3.
448 Paul VI, EN 73.
449 CIC, can. 129 § 2.
450 Cf. CIC, cann. 443 § 4; 463 §§ 1 and 2; 492 § 1; 511; 517 § 2; 536; 1421 § 2.
451 LG 36 § 4.
452 LG 33 § 2; cf. Eph 4:7.

As for your quote from Revelation 1:5-6, I would submit that you are relying to much on a single poor translation of that verse. I surveyed many translations of the Bible, and only the King James and related versions translate it as you have quoted. A better translation, judging by its widespread use, is “has made us into a kingdom”, not “has made us kings.”

(cont.)

 

[eliasaph99]

(cont.)

Now, I want to say this. Just because you end your post with “with respect and love” does not mean you have actually used it. Your tone is patronizing and arrogant. It offends me.

I am not ignorant, and I don’t need to have my beliefs belittled by the likes of you. The teachings I believe in have been taught for 2000 years by the only God made organization on Earth. If you want my unsolicited opinion, you are the ignorant one here. The way I see it, a person must know next to nothing of history, theology, and the Bible to believe what you believe.

You have placed yourself at odds with the constant teaching of 2000 years. The great theologians of the ages, who spent their entire lives immersed in the scriptures, groan at your inferences and are pained by your attempts at exegesis.

I hope that you make some real effort to seek the Truth. God willing, you will find it.

 

[arcadia]

(cont.)

Now, I want to say this. Just because you end your post with “with respect and love” does not mean you have actually used it. Your tone is patronizing and arrogant. It offends me.

I am not ignorant, and I don’t need to have my beliefs belittled by the likes of you. The teachings I believe in have been taught for 2000 years by the only God made organization on Earth. If you want my unsolicited opinion, you are the ignorant one here. The way I see it, a person must know next to nothing of history, theology, and the Bible to believe what you believe.

You have placed yourself at odds with the constant teaching of 2000 years. The great theologians of the ages, who spent their entire lives immersed in the scriptures, groan at your inferences and are pained by your attempts at exegesis.

I hope that you make some real effort to seek the Truth. God willing, you will find it.

I am sorry that your pride offended. I meant what I said about about the love and the respect.

humbly,
arcadia

 

[ALLFORHIM]

Well I guess you are really saying that in all all honesty you are ignorant. A catholic poster named Contradundrum7 wrote… "One more thing: The Catholic Church teaches that all baptized Christians (or is it just Catholic ones??? Sorry, i’m not sure… but someone out there is…), but anyway, it teaches we are all “Priest, Prophet and King”.( pg 17 of this thread)

What about Rev 1:5-6 ? “To him who loved us and washed away our sins in his own blood and has made us kings and priest to His God and Father…” There are other scriptures too that clearly state the same thing ( I have read them, but I have to find them)

…So sorry about that brother, but you are more than what your limiting beliefs are. But that is good news isn’t it?

Let me ask you what does it mean for us to be called a servant king? How about a priest? How about a prophet? Overcomer?

People does anyone else agree with me that we are more than what we are manifesting to the world? ( I know some of you think of me as a brother) Don’t Christians and Catholic Christians equally look a lot like the world? Similar houses, cars, jobs, worries, divorce rates, etc? I am talking about me too.

I am beginning to understand that I have wandered all over the map with my posts. Please forgive me. It was my first forum. Next time I will stay on topic.

with respect and love,

your friend arcadia

Hi,
Im with you:thumbsup:

 

[Janet_S]

I am beginning to understand that I have wandered all over the map with my posts. Please forgive me. It was my first forum. Next time I will stay on topic.

with respect and love,

your friend arcadia

Don’t feel too bad. I feel that way too about this bizarre thread which should probably be called “The Twilight Zone.”

 

[eliasaph99]

I am sorry that your pride offended. I meant what I said about about the love and the respect.

humbly,
arcadia

This is exactly what I am referring to.

A statement like this is patronizing.

You have not offended my pride. You have offended my sense of decency and respectful discourse.

You are not being humble by making such a statement. Instead, you are being self-aggrandizing, trying to claim that I am prideful while you are humble.

Truly amazing!

 

[jack_hawkins]

I think he just wanted to get a rise out of the Catholics on this Board. (He succeeded.)

Not a very charitable thought
what happened to “being patient with those in error” for example? or “counselling the doubtful”? does CAF not do that?

 

[jack_hawkins]

It was not asking questions that was the problem. It was making insulting comments and being rude that got you those reactions

guanophore, where does that assertion get us?
I can say absolutely truthfully that this forum did not help me in any way spiritually -in fact it had the opposite effect
what happened to the spiritual works of mercy of “counselling the doubtful” and “being patient with those in error”?
my Curate was quite scathing about some of the things said here and advised not to log on anymore - I am only doing so to help others who may feel discouraged like I was
what insulting comments did I make?
please quote one
and even I did - what about the above spiritual works of mercy? are they conveniently ignored?

 

[Enoch]

Hi Jack!

I’ve been following this thread for a while and was just wondering how you liked being baptized at the Easter Vigil?

Also, being raised Pentecostal, how come you were never baptized by them?

Also, what kind of a physician are you, and how does a physician find the time to make 836 posts in lest than eight weeks? You must be very good at multitasking.

 

[jack_hawkins]

Hi Jack!

I’ve been following this thread for a while and was just wondering how you liked being baptized at the Easter Vigil?

assuming that I wasn’t put off by the comments here you mean

Also, being raised Pentecostal, how come you were never baptized by them?

I was

Also, what kind of a physician are you, and how does a physician find the time to make 836 posts in lest than eight weeks? You must be very good at multitasking.

one not working at present