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TNT
Guest
Card carying? No. Remember…SECRET society.
And yes: See Post 160. Then share your conclusion
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And yes: See Post 160. Then share your conclusion
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TNT
Guest
Re the 15%..
I would have to agree from statistics outside the 3rd world countries, where they are near impossible to come by, that 15% is closer to being correct than 25% as far as weekly attendance goes.
Within the Trad community, that figure goes closer to 85%.
In the charts on this thread it is as important to see the trend, not just absolute numbers. The Trad community is growing, the NO community is in decay in relative-to-population stats.
Now, you have the rest of the story…Paul Harvey…Good Day.
Romans 9:27 And Isaias crieth out concerning Israel (and the New Israel): If the number of the children of (new) Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved.
Romans 11:5 Even so then at this present time also, there is a remnant saved according to the election of grace.
I would have to agree from statistics outside the 3rd world countries, where they are near impossible to come by, that 15% is closer to being correct than 25% as far as weekly attendance goes.
Within the Trad community, that figure goes closer to 85%.
In the charts on this thread it is as important to see the trend, not just absolute numbers. The Trad community is growing, the NO community is in decay in relative-to-population stats.
Now, you have the rest of the story…Paul Harvey…Good Day.
Romans 9:27 And Isaias crieth out concerning Israel (and the New Israel): If the number of the children of (new) Israel be as the sand of the sea, a remnant shall be saved.
Romans 11:5 Even so then at this present time also, there is a remnant saved according to the election of grace.
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Arch_Stanton
Guest
You are correct, however, that even the Latin Mass was not always exactly as we know it today. Certain prayers were added over time. But that does not invalidate it or make it strange to the Mass of the early Christians.
If you get a chance, read Pius XII’s encyclical “Mediator Dei”, on the Church in Her worship. He warned against being too attached to things that are ancient (this however excepts the Latin Mass).
I will refrain from commenting on the New Mass. But I do encourage attending a Latin Mass, but not because it is old.
If you get a chance, read Pius XII’s encyclical “Mediator Dei”, on the Church in Her worship. He warned against being too attached to things that are ancient (this however excepts the Latin Mass).
I will refrain from commenting on the New Mass. But I do encourage attending a Latin Mass, but not because it is old.
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otm
Guest
Munda cor meum:
Your indication that only 15% of Catholics attend Mass regularly, and that 5% to 10% of Catholics are attending a TLM Mass would equate to 1/3 to 2/3s of Mass attending Catholics attending a TLM Mass. While I have seen no statistics anywhere showing how many Masses weekly are TLM, just watching the threads around this issue indicate that there are very few parishes anywhere which celebrate the TLM. What little I know of it, it appears from what gets said in these threads that many of the parishes with a TLM Mass have multiple Masses on the weekend, but only one TLM. This further reduces the number of TLM Masses in proportion the the Pauling rite.
I agree that I am only giving an opinion, but my opinion is based on observations and reading. It is obvious from the threads that some dioceses this year have had their first parish granted the indult. All of the talk about growth sounds as if there was a wave of great proportions building towards the TLM. However, the reports seem to indicate otherwise. If 1/2 of 1% of all Masses said on a weekend were TLM, and next year they had a growth of 50%, that would seem like a hugh growth rate, until one realized that it still would equate to less than 1% of all Masses said on the weekend.
I would certainly invite anyone with statistical information to wade in. I haven’t found any; only information from numerous threads indicating how people have no TLM available in their area, or how they have to travel so far to atten one, or how the first TLM indult has been granted to a parish in their diocese.
The statistice that I have seen for the United States puts regular mass attendances at approximately 35%. This styatisitic is often compared to the statistics in various European countries, which are in the 15% range, down to 5% and less. Unless you have a study that puts regular Mass attendance lower than what I have seen in the last year, I would stand by 30 to 35%.
Your indication that only 15% of Catholics attend Mass regularly, and that 5% to 10% of Catholics are attending a TLM Mass would equate to 1/3 to 2/3s of Mass attending Catholics attending a TLM Mass. While I have seen no statistics anywhere showing how many Masses weekly are TLM, just watching the threads around this issue indicate that there are very few parishes anywhere which celebrate the TLM. What little I know of it, it appears from what gets said in these threads that many of the parishes with a TLM Mass have multiple Masses on the weekend, but only one TLM. This further reduces the number of TLM Masses in proportion the the Pauling rite.
I agree that I am only giving an opinion, but my opinion is based on observations and reading. It is obvious from the threads that some dioceses this year have had their first parish granted the indult. All of the talk about growth sounds as if there was a wave of great proportions building towards the TLM. However, the reports seem to indicate otherwise. If 1/2 of 1% of all Masses said on a weekend were TLM, and next year they had a growth of 50%, that would seem like a hugh growth rate, until one realized that it still would equate to less than 1% of all Masses said on the weekend.
I would certainly invite anyone with statistical information to wade in. I haven’t found any; only information from numerous threads indicating how people have no TLM available in their area, or how they have to travel so far to atten one, or how the first TLM indult has been granted to a parish in their diocese.
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bear06
Guest
LOL!TNT said:I don’t think it says these quotes came from the tape series. Did I miss that? Anyways, since they’ve got you interested, I suggest you listen to the series. You also seemed to miss some very important quotes at the end of the interview on the Council, Mass, etc. Sorry it costs so much. I got them for free!
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bear06
Guest
Hey, for extra credit you might also want to get the tape series “The Reform of the Reform”. 
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TNT
Guest
Here is a 2nd Site.LOL!
dotm.org/altar-may14.htm
Along with the 1st:
#1. catholic.net/RCC/Periodicals/Inside/05-96/abbot.html
You are welcome to tell us how close they are to the tapes in context.
ps Where do I get free tapes. That I will agree to.
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terrcatholic
Guest
Ok OK …God bless you, I am a peaceful person. Just hate name calling, I fall into that sometimes, sinful
bear06:
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terrcatholic
Guest
So do we all agree…Lets bring back the TLM…or at least make it available all over in ALL churches as one of the offered masses and not hidden away in the catacombs. How can we get it implemented. Lets start a letter writing campaign, my Bishop refuses to answer on allowing the Indult, refuses.
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TNT
Guest
Mama BEAR is trying to tell you…
“Not CTA”
but CT (closet Trad)
This is all secret code… they can’t say it directly…It would blow their cover.
That’s why she won’t tell you what the tapes say but just
“get the tapes”, “tape series” “tape series”, that’s code for “this is really what I think”
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bear06
Guest
I believe the comments are probably very similar. I’ll need to paint one of our other bedrooms so I have time to listen to them again!
The problem is they are quite taken out of the context of the whole. Also, if you look at the quotes you made, they are directed at what happened after the council when the council mandates when to the “conscilium” I think he called it. All this is consitent to what people like Fr. Fessio, Fr. Scanlon, etc. say. Wasn’t it you who said you got “Adoremus” for two years? What did you disagree with in that, if any?
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bear06
Guest
By the way, I got them for free from my brother who found hoards of tape series at a garage sale for pennies and gave them to me for free. Good luck finding that needle in a haystack!
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bear06
Guest
I’m almost on board, however, I don’t believe a bishop has to mandate that they be said in ALL churches unless there a large interest. Like I’ve said before, our indult attracts folks from other dioceses and it’s still not standing room only.
You might try a respectful petition to show that there is an interest in the diocese. Also, if you can find a priest interested, you might ask him to start with the Pauline in Latin to show that there is an interest.
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bear06
Guest
That’s right so all of you Trads should run out there and get the series so you can be armed!
But seriously, I prefer to provide direct quotes and I’m sorry, I just don’t have the time to sit and listen and transcribe right now. I can tell you that it covers the Prots, Bugnini, the Council, the “consciliums”, etc.
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TNT
Guest
Trying to fix the unfixable.
I decided that the ones who propagated the NOM were set on making a new church of secular affections. Since thay have control of the NOM, they would never let it become “catholicized”
(ie giving it a distinct Catholic reverence) no matter the efforts of those in Adoremus.
Witness: The longer it stays around the more the abuses become norms. Adoremus had no effect on the tidal waves such as:
communion in the hand, standing for communion, standing sfter communion, EUM’s becoming regular EM’s, tearing out C-rails, altars-in-the-round, presbyters facing the mob, missing tabernacles. (Did I miss some?)… They are only controlling the velocity of the secular movement, not the direction. Same with Cd Ratzinger, et al.
The patients have full control of the asylum. Doctor Adoremus is the voice crying to the mob inside.
By defending the NOM “but only in its VII prescriptions” they are defending the centerpiece of the secular movement, the pliable (by definition) NOM.
The mob, including the hierarchy, have no intention, nor ever did, nor ever will, to demand an “NOM as prescribed in VII”.
Revolution is their god, and destruction of all tradition is necessary to sever the faithful from True Catholicism.
Their instrument of revolution is the NOM because that is the only regular contact they have to influence the laity.
By definition, a one-world religion cannot have exclusionary doctrines or worhip in their liturgy. Adoremus is not reacting to the bigger picture of the revolution, by never admitting that it has penetrated the hierarchy all the way to the top, who control the liturgy.
This is what the good ABBOTT is saying to you and so am I…
Witness who are being made Bishops, archB, cardinals, heads of congregations relating to other religions.
Love ya,
God bless
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TNT
Guest
Careful what you wish for.It takes a particular kind of priest to offer a TLM with due reverence. Giving it thru any priest is not a safe idea IMO. They often do not have the theological training or at least the proper disposition. I like the steady growth thru FSSP, etc, seminaries, and just add those few priest who are proven to show a great affection for the TLM.
Besides, in a TLM, the priest would necessarily be giving sermons on sin, hell, salvation outside the church, etc. This is all a part of the package. Most are not ready to administer the medicine to their children. Catechism would also be a part of it.
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bear06
Guest
Sorry, I don’t share your doom and gloom. I think you want an overnight change which will and it has not happened. What’s that character who’s line was always “It’ll never work” ? I’ve lived all my life in a hellish diocese. Thanfully there were always safe havens for us. We found a way to creatively plead our case to the Vatican and have been blessed with an awesome new bishop because of those efforts despite Cardinal Mahoney’s efforts! Tabernacles are being returned to their front and center places in the churches, sacred music “institutes” are being started, the poor beat down conservative priests have back up now and are starting to come out of the closet while the wackos are setting up shop in their own closets, etc., etc., etc.
I belong to a nationwide group of Catholic activists and we are starting to see a shift and good bishops are now being appointed. Of course, my last resort has always been “If you can’t beat them, out populate them” but it looks as though changes are occuring without the last resort.
I’ve lived all my life in a hellish diocese. Thanfully there were always safe havens for us. We found a way to creatively plead our case to the Vatican and have been blessed with an awesome new bishop because of those efforts despite Cardinal Mahoney’s efforts! Tabernacles are being returned to their front and center places in the churches, sacred music “institutes” are being started, the poor beat down conservative priests have back up now and are starting to come out of the closet while the wackos are setting up shop in their own closets, etc., etc., etc.I belong to a nationwide group of Catholic activists and we are starting to see a shift and good bishops are now being appointed. Of course, my last resort has always been “If you can’t beat them, out populate them” but it looks as though changes are occuring without the last resort.
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TNT
Guest
PEACEFUL…PEACEFUL?
“I came NOT to bring peace, but the sword!” THE SWORD!
“HYPOCRITES!, FULL OF DEAD MENS BONES! SONS OF YOUR FATHER, FOR HE WAS A LIAR FROM THE BEGINNING!”
Humanum Genus - Encyclical on Freemasonry - Promulgated on April 20, 1884 - Pope Leo XIII :
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TNT
Guest
Standard operating procedure:
- Send in the radical revolutionary. Allow them to dessimate the faithful.
- Send in the moderate. Restore some of the dessimated.
- Faithful give thanks.
- Send back in the radical revolutionary.
- Send in the moderate, but do not restore as much as was dessimated.
Recycle above.
We know this as 3 steps forward, 1 step back. Still works
I have a Reagan mentality toward secularization as he had toward the USSR. He did what Leo XIII said to do:
Rip off their mask…they ARE the Empire of Evil so that all may see, including the common folk who otherwise have no clue.
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TNT
Guest
No indeed. I want not a change in velocity, as you are describing, but a change in DIRECTION. No matter the velocity. It’s the direction of the Church that will make the final difference. The ONLY way to change direction in a revolution or war of ideas, is to get the populus to see the real intent of the revolutionary, and who it is that supports it. Then condemn them via their ideas and where it has, and wiil lead.
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