North Carolina to Limit Bathroom Use by Birth Gender

  • Thread starter Thread starter _Abyssinia
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Neither involved transgender women.

In the first, that man is on your side! He did it in protest of transgender protection laws in washington - trying to make a point!

What the washington HRC had to say about it :
When a man recently entered a women’s locker room at a Seattle pool, his intent was obviously to make the women and girls in the restroom upset and uncomfortable, and to make some kind of misguided point about the Human Rights Commission’s rules regarding equal access to gender-segregated facilities. His behavior is inexcusable and reprehensible. And it is absolutely not protected under the law.
Click to expand...
According to witnesses, the man never identified himself as transgender. He did not express a female gender identity through voice, dress, or mannerisms. He was a man, but in the wrong place. And even worse, when he was asked to leave, he refused to do so.
Click to expand...
Men cannot go into the women’s locker room, as this man claimed he had the right to do. Only women, including transgender women, can go into the women’s locker room. Persons who enter the wrong gender-segregated facility for nefarious purposes can be asked to leave in no uncertain terms. And they would have no recourse.
Click to expand...
If a business has a reasonable belief that a person is in the wrong place, there is no rule that states that the person cannot be questioned and required to leave. If that person has entered a gender-segregated facility under false pretenses, and is asked to leave, then it is quite unlikely that the person will pursue a civil rights complaint. If they do, the subsequent investigation will uncover that the person is not protected under the law, and the complaint will be closed with no further action. If a business makes an honest mistake, and requires a protected person to leave a facility, and the wronged person files a civil rights complaint, the Human Rights Commission will look upon this as an opportunity for education, not for punitive action. The Human Rights Commission cannot impose fines, cannot throw anybody in jail, and will not seek an outcome disproportionate to the action; rather it will seek a mutual resolution among the parties.
Click to expand...
We all have a lot to learn about people who are different from ourselves, and can all work harder at practicing tolerance and acceptance. Working together toward these goals, we can make this a Washington that stands up for equal rights for all of its citizens.
Click to expand...
The second incident you cite did not involve trans women and what they did was illegal regardless.

So punish hundreds of thousands for the acts of a few who are not even a part of that group? More rebublican lawmakers this year are facing allegations of sexual misconduct - should we do more to segregate them in the name of keeping women and children safe?

Including Tennessee lawmaker Jeremy Durham - a proponent of anti trans legislation, who has been deemed a danger to unsuspecting women who visit or work for the state legislature. How ironic!

knoxnews.com/opinion/editorials/harwell-wise-to-restrict-durhams-access-to-capitol-304b8ef3-a58e-5132-e053-0100007f2528-375462871.html
 
rae317 said:
Neither involved transgender women.

In the first, that man is on your side! He did it in protest of transgender protection laws in washington - trying to make a point!

What the washington HRC had to say about it :

The second incident you cite did not involve trans women and what they did was illegal regardless.

So punish hundreds of thousands for the acts of a few who are not even a part of that group? More rebublican lawmakers this year are facing allegations of sexual misconduct - should we do more to segregate them in the name of keeping women and children safe?
Click to expand...
But that is the whole point - no one is regulating this. That is the problem with it. Because of this, you are denying women the right to a reasonable expectation of privacy and safety.

Another point I should mention, when I had my talk with the manager at my gym, he expressed concern about women who had experienced previous acts of violence or rape now feeling vulnerable or fearing assault. He had previously worked in some kind of counseling. (never occurred to me; I only really thought about that comment after I left) But I will say this - the incident did upset me. Now whenever I go in the locker-room I look for that guy - I am scared - the plan is to go into a separate stall so I am never around him again (of course I am nervous the whole time that something will happen again). The other woman who had a similar incident with him refuses to go into the locker-room - she goes to a private bathroom on the premises.
 
rae317 said:
Neither involved transgender women.

In the first, that man is on your side! He did it in protest of transgender protection laws in washington - trying to make a point!

What the washington HRC had to say about it :

The second incident you cite did not involve trans women and what they did was illegal regardless.

So punish hundreds of thousands for the acts of a few who are not even a part of that group? More rebublican lawmakers this year are facing allegations of sexual misconduct - should we do more to segregate them in the name of keeping women and children safe?

Including Tennessee lawmaker Jeremy Durham - a proponent of anti trans legislation, who has been deemed a danger to unsuspecting women who visit or work for the state legislature. How ironic!

knoxnews.com/opinion/editorials/harwell-wise-to-restrict-durhams-access-to-capitol-304b8ef3-a58e-5132-e053-0100007f2528-375462871.html
Click to expand...
Your quote contained a sentence, “Only women, including transgender women, can go into the women’s locker room.” In other words, Only women, including transgender women (who are really men), can go into the women’s locker room. Even if they are dressing as a woman, most “trans” women-men have not had their penis removed. Most naked women in a public locker room don’t want the person next them to have a penis. Do you know why? Does it need to be spelled out any more simply?
 
FollowChrist34 said:
The other woman who had a similar incident with him refuses to go into the locker-room - she goes to a private bathroom on the premises.
Click to expand...
Isn’t that what some supporters of these bathroom bills think should be the preferred option for Transgender people?
 
rae317 said:
Neither involved transgender women.
Click to expand...
What objective criteria - easily measurable even through news reporting with no personal interviews - is being applied to determine that these individuals are not “transwomen”?
 
Thorolfr said:
Maybe all public restrooms should be private unisex ones.
Click to expand...
I would go for 1 male, 1 female, 1 unisex. I would be fine with that. They could do that with locker-rooms too. 😉 My problem to be honest with unisex bathrooms is that men’s bathrooms tend to be dirtier. (I was a maid for a summer at a hotel when I was 17) There is a huge difference between men’s and women’s bathrooms, odors, etc.
 
The whole point? He did not have a protected right to do what he did. Can’t find enough trans women doing bad things so make it up? Stage an incident? Who does that help? What about thou shalt not bear false witness or does that not matter?

The woman at the gym that makes you uncomfortable - have they done anything like harass, take pictures, try to touch, stare, expose themselves to you. Did they do anything at all threatening to you or any other woman. Because if they did they can be made to leave or even arrested. Or is it a case of they just don’t look like you think they should and that makes you uncomfortable?

The other thing about this law - it could hurt women in general transgender and non transgender because it may very well lead to more incidents like these:

“A Detroit woman is suing a popular Greektown restaurant after she says … out of the restaurant’s women’s bathroom”
 
rae317 said:
The whole point? He did not have a protected right to do what he did. Can’t find enough trans women doing bad things so make it up? Stage an incident? Who does that help? What about thou shalt not bear false witness or does that not matter?

The woman at the gym that makes you uncomfortable - have they done anything like harass, take pictures, try to touch, stare, expose themselves to you. Did they do anything at all threatening to you or any other woman. Because if they did they can be made to leave or even arrested. Or is it a case of they just don’t look like you think they should and that makes you uncomfortable?

The other thing about this law - it could hurt women in general transgender and non transgender because it may very well lead to more incidents like these:

“A Detroit woman is suing a popular Greektown restaurant after she says … out of the restaurant’s women’s bathroom”
Click to expand...
The man at my gym has received numerous complaints. The manager says he can suggest that this individual use the unisex private room, but he cannot force the issue. And, yes, the manager identified this individual as “a little too forward.” He does stare, and try to engage women in conversation, makes eye contact. If he had not openly stared me up and down I probably would not have said anything.

I am interested to hear what you will say when a transgender individual is the victim of an assault. 😃 It goes without saying it will be a hate crime. (maybe then we will actually get some support on regulating who goes in the locker room - one silver lining.)
 
FollowChrist34 said:
The man at my gym has received numerous complaints. The manager say he can suggest that this individual use the unisex private room, but he cannot force the issue. And, yes, the manager identified this individual as “a little too forward.” He does stare, and try to engage women in conversation, he sings. He stares up and down, all the way. He has a penis which shows through very short shorts, and is exposed during undressing.
Click to expand...
Boy, I’d quit that creepy gym in no time. Whatta wimpy management group.
 
FollowChrist34 said:
He has a penis which shows through very short shorts, and is exposed during undressing.
Click to expand...
Maybe they should have private changing stalls. When I was in high school, I never liked open showering and changing areas in the gyms.

And besides, wouldn’t any of the women be concerned about lesbians looking at them? 😉
 
Thorolfr said:
Maybe they should have private changing stalls. When I was in high school, I never liked open showering and changing areas in the gyms.

And besides, wouldn’t any of the women be concerned about lesbians looking at them? 😉
Click to expand...
I think straight men deal with that issue too. You just discourage it. My problem is violent individuals, the risk, men behaving inappropriately. The larger point is anyone can go in there, right? Beyond this particular guy at my gym. Also I should add we have children in there every day at 2 pm, a class - they use the women’s locker room.
 
rae317 said:
Neither involved transgender women.
Click to expand...
What is the definition of a transgender woman? If it involves no more than a man saying “today I am a woman” then there is nothing whatever to stop men from walking into the women’s locker room at the local Y. That’s kind of the point: if a man claims to be a woman at any time for any reason he is presumed to be a woman - reality notwithstanding. You may believe there is an argument for allowing “real” transgender women to use the women’s locker room, but the law cannot distinguish between “real” and “fake”. The law applies equally to both, therefore you cannot permit transgender women to do something without permitting men to do it as well.

Ender
 
FollowChrist34 said:
I think straight men deal with that issue too. You just discourage it. My problem is violent individuals, the risk, men behaving inappropriately. The larger point is anyone can go in there, right? Beyond this particular guy at my gym. Also I should add we have children in there every day at 2 pm, a class - they use the women’s locker room.
Click to expand...
It boggles the mind that people can’t seem to grasp the problem with allowing anyone who claims they are transgendered into a room full of undressed women/children.
 
josie_L said:
It boggles the mind that people can’t seem to grasp the problem with allowing anyone who claims they are transgendered into a room full of undressed women/children.
Click to expand...
And what about allowing women who claim they are trans-men into a room full of undressed men? Shouldn’t we all be concerned about that too? Who knows what might happen.
 
Thorolfr said:
And what about allowing women who claim they are trans-men into a room full of undressed men? Shouldn’t we all be concerned about that too? Who knows what might happen.
Click to expand...
Men are stronger and more aggressive than women. It would probably either result in a verbal or sexual assault. At a minimum some pretty nasty glares, suggestive comments, or God knows, if you ended up next to someone bold enough, an advance. (and if I did this I would think I had lost my mental balance)

I don’t blame transgender individuals of either sex for being terrified of going into men’s locker rooms (whether the response is ‘positive’ or ‘negative’). That is why they need their own private area - prevents trauma to them or anyone else.
 
Thorolfr said:
And what about allowing women who claim they are trans-men into a room full of undressed men? Shouldn’t we all be concerned about that too? Who knows what might happen.
Click to expand...
So you’re not denying that this could be a problem, and already is, as FollowChrist has already demonstrated?

p.s. Is it such a stretch in logic to understand why things can and do go bad when we allow ANYONE WHO CLAIMS they are transgendered into the dressing room of the opposite sex?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top