Not attending brother's wedding

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Hello,

My niece, who was baptized catholic married in the catholic church. She is now divorced-no annulment, and is remarrying in a baptist church. She has said she is no longer catholic. She doesn’t attend the catholic church. Can I attend this wedding or is she still considered married in the catholic church? I would like to go, and I don’t want to cause any hurt feelings, but I’m not sure if it’s right in the eyes of the catholic church.:confused:

Thank you!
There are a bunch of folks beating each other up over this very question in this thread:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=410427

Feel free to join in the fun.
 
I have followed this thread on and off since it started and have spent some time this afternoon rereading parts of it with both sorrow and anger. Sorrow that people can be so hard-hearted and angry at the tolerance some display. Thank goodness there have also been posts where the understanding and acceptance of posters have come through.

I’ve split my reply into two posts as otherwise it would be unduly long.
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Carlan:
Respect for Parents and family should be very much considered also. To blatantly reject family and Church as he has done as told here, does not show respect on the other’s part.
Yes, there needs to be respect but people also have to respect their own consciences. Do you expect someone who has come to believe that the faith of their family is not correct to pretend that it is?

I would prefer that a friend or relative was open about this and I would also be pleased that they have found a faith that they can fully live by.
Van der Tann:
As to the post which said, "As a Catholic, this person is bound by Canon law. They have to marry according to the laws of the Church. They can never marry validly outside of that law…
I doubt that this is the view of people who change churches/religions and continuing to stress this is only more likely to turn the person against that religion that claims this.
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Sharmin:
So it is better, in an effort to be respectful, to pretend to believe in the religion you were raised even if you do not? Do people seriously feel this way?
Some clearly do. I certainly don’t. If I knew they were doing so, I would be very careful in my dealings with them as they were acting against their beliefs and conscience. Not the good basis for a real relationship.
FidelisUnus:
More importantly, getting married in the Church when you do not believe is the greater sin. It would be sacrilegious.
I agree.
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PassingThru:
Honestly, don’t go….I can see this “issue” being a major distraction for your brother from what is supposed to be a highlight of his life. That, and you are making your “issue” his “issue”. It sounds like an intervention. Tell him you can’t attend, and do him a favor, and leave him in peace, at least till the wedding is over.
Agree that it would be better if those members of the family who cannot leave the issue aside at the wedding did not attend. Better still would be for them to put the issue aside.
 
Part 2 of my reply to this thread
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Elizabeth1558:
My husband is a non-practicing Catholic and I am a practicing Presbyterian. I heard a number of passive aggressive remarks from his side of the family about our Protestant wedding ceremony. While painful to hear, I kept my mouth shut. They did attend the wedding out of love for both of us; I know that even with our religious differences they do love and respect me. During the wedding ceremony his parents were visibly happy and greeted us with big smiles afterwards. If you cannot do the same I say don’t go. Nothing is worse than a person who is pouting at a wedding.
Well put.
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Christiano:
I just realized that because my sibling and myself have quite different views about religion and morality; however, whenever we talk we are completely straightforward and even if we might not support each other on some of the choices but we do not let those differences separate us. We may even condemn each other actions but we do not seek evil intention in the other.
How refreshing to hear and not something that is easy to do when both of those involved having strong beliefs and feelings.
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that_name:
The OP’s situation is that his brother is Catholic. Maybe you missed that little tidbit o information? This Catholic is thumbing his nose at Church teaching and getting married outside the Church.
No, the OP’s brother considers that he has left the Catholic Church and thereby not bound to follow its rules. Thumbing his nose would be when he said he was Catholic but undertook an action he knew was against the teachings of the Catholic Church.
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Bekalc:
The thing is showing a harsh stance, I think won’t really bring him back to the Church…However if you have a relationship with them, and do your best to welcome her, even if you disagree with the means they are using to get married.

Plus if you are in their life, maybe then you could have a better conversation with them than if you aren’t in their life. Here’s an idea I thought of. Why not have dinner with them, and then quietly talk to both of them about your feelings about him leaving the Church.
I’m okay with this up to here as you are stating your feelings and beliefs
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Bekalc:
instead of ooohh your sinning, why not address actually his issues with the Church. You can say that at times some people tend to misrepresent the teachings of Catholicism, and because your family spent so much time and effort trying to install the faith in your brother. You’d appreciate it if they both read this book…
This is the part I have problems with. When I left the Church (Protestant) I felt insulted when people assumed it was because I did not really understand the theology with which I disagreed. When I said this wasn’t the reason I was often told that the theology was correct because it had stood the test of time.

Also I was no in state to read more about the theology that I had so very painfully rejected – it was like taking the scabs of a healing sore. To avoid this I now refuse to discuss the subject unless I feel safe about doing so.
 
This is the part I have problems with. When I left the Church (Protestant) I felt insulted when people assumed it was because I did not really understand the theology with which I disagreed. When I said this wasn’t the reason I was often told that the theology was correct because it had stood the test of time.
Also I was no in state to read more about the theology that I had so very painfully rejected – it was like taking the scabs of a healing sore. To avoid this I now refuse to discuss the subject unless I feel safe about doing so.
Its not a matter of assuming but there’s nothing wrong with having a conversation and finding out what issues they disagree with. I didn’t have an issue with my friends who were Protestants asking me questions (or even wanting me to read) before I made the switch to Catholicism. And a lot of former Catholics actually DON’T understand Catholic theology. My mother is a former Catholic, and I’ve had discussions with her about Catholicism-and trust me in my few discussions with her, I’ve learned no she doesn’t understand Catholic theology.

I’m not saying that the people need to beat things over the head or anything like that but it doesn’t hurt to gently talk about these things. It sounds like the brother too might have been influenced by the girl.
 
Thank you all for your responses. I understand all of your points. I just get so irritated when someone, especially my brother turns his back on the Church that Christ founded and tells my mom and dad that what they have taught him over the years is wrong. That they taught him the wrong beliefs. Very very frustrating.
I would strongly advise not to go to the wedding service. Inasmuch as some may consider this harsh advice, your attending this service would give scandal and the impression that you are condoning the fact that your brother has separated himself from Christ and His Church.

Jesus never said that it would be easy to follow Him. In fact, He sadly lamented the fact that following Him would bring division among families, brother against brother, father against son, etc. While family is important, we have to realize that God comes first. What your brother is doing is wrong. Even though you still love him, his actions should not be condoned. Pray for his reversion, but, do not assist at the wedding service.
 
Hello,

My niece, who was baptized catholic married in the catholic church. She is now divorced-no annulment, and is remarrying in a baptist church. She has said she is no longer catholic. She doesn’t attend the catholic church. Can I attend this wedding or is she still considered married in the catholic church? I would like to go, and I don’t want to cause any hurt feelings, but I’m not sure if it’s right in the eyes of the catholic church.:confused:

Thank you!
I think this is even more clear-cut. According to the Bible, what your niece is plannning on doing is to commit adultery. Under the old Baltimore Catechism, it was clear that you could not attend this so-called “wedding”. Now, although many say that the old Baltimore Catechism no longer applies, the CCC does state that we can participate in the sins of others (CCC 1868) when we praise and/or approve them, and attending a “wedding” that is just another word for “public formalization of adultery” most certainly can be taken as praising and/or approving of it.

I think as Catholics we need to grow a backbone and a thicker skin and not be so concerned about causing hurt feelings over clear-cut cases of right and wrong.
 
This is the best advice that I’ve found on this difficult situation and is worth repeating.
Yes, it is.

If a presumptive marriage isn’t making a bad situation worse–isn’t attempting re-marriage when one partner may fairly be presumed to be already validly married or isn’t attempting marriage with someone free to marry but who is of the same gender, or one of the partners isn’t objectively a serious abuser or being forced or manipulated into the marriage, that kind of thing–then there isn’t going to be a scandal caused when a Catholic attends the wedding of a family member. There might be a lot of long-lasting hurt feelings that will serve as an impediment for that family member to ever come back to the Church, though.

IMHO, then, if the Church does not forbid attendance at a family member’s family celebration, then, go to it. It is not up to you to enforce canon law in that case. Catholics at a non-Catholic wedding are not cheering on non-Catholic religions as a fine alternative to their own, any more than the reverse is true. Nobody takes Baptists showing up at one of our weddings as an endorsement of our belief in the authority of Rome.

If the Church does forbid attendance, give your regrets with true regret, and re-assert that your bond is still important, even if you and this family member have deep differences in other respects. If you have to act in a way that could be taken as a rejection, you have to do it as patiently and with as much gentleness as you can.

If you are stepping in to stop something like the desecration of a church, abuse of a third party, or that sort of thing, that is the time to imitate the Lord’s cleansing of the temple. Otherwise, a less confrontational method is almost always called for.
 
I think as Catholics we need to grow a backbone and a thicker skin and not be so concerned about causing hurt feelings over clear-cut cases of right and wrong.
There is a difference between having a backbone and not having a worry about other people’s feelings. You can respect your own conscience without abandoning all care for the feelings of those whose consciences are in error.

After all, it is not enough to keep our own consciences clean. We have to clear the way for the consciences of others, too, and not make ourselves into obstacles to grace or excuses for continuing stubbornness. We have to keep both in mind.
 
I attended my sister’s “wedding” in a cheesy Las Vegas chapel about 2 years ago. If I could go back in time, I would not have attended. As a baptized catholic, she married a twice divorced non-believer. Perhaps if someone made a small stance against the marriage, she could of decided to look into her faith. To this day, she still does not attend Mass and to the best of my knowledge, she still does not realize the grave situation she has put herself in.
 
I do not disagree with you here when you say that I was comparing it to an extreme case.
The bottom line was that we must avoid moral relativism.
I absolutely agree. Truth is truth. It is discerning what we are required to do, with Love, that is so difficult. We perhaps disagree on this, as do various priests. Praying for discernment, seeking guidance from their priest are good places to start.
The O.P. must make a choice (whatever it is) based on its morality and not just because it is not a big deal.
absolutely! 👍 I don’t think that anyone here was suggesting that this is not a big deal.
I think that a lot of people appear to be confused of what Love is. I said it before: charity and clarity.
I like that, charity and clarity, and I agree. It is always hard for me to balance Truth with Love. I know that God is both, sometimes being truthful is painful and yet real love demands Truth. I think we agree. It’s the application of Truth that we all struggle with and I believe that we are not to be judgmental in sharing that Truth. 🤷 sometimes hard to know, it helps to have discussions like this, though. I appreciate your thoughts.
 
I think this is even more clear-cut. According to the Bible, what your niece is plannning on doing is to commit adultery. Under the old Baltimore Catechism, it was clear that you could not attend this so-called “wedding”. Now, although many say that the old Baltimore Catechism no longer applies, the CCC does state that we can participate in the sins of others (CCC 1868) when we praise and/or approve them, and attending a “wedding” that is just another word for “public formalization of adultery” most certainly can be taken as praising and/or approving of it.

I think as Catholics we need to grow a backbone and a thicker skin and not be so concerned about causing hurt feelings over clear-cut cases of right and wrong.
I guess I should count myself lucky that so many Catholic friends and family attended our Public Formalization of Adultery ceremony my “wife” and I had this past September. We are hoping to have our first Bastard Child sometime next year. I just hope we have enough goats for the sacrificial alter to make it happen.

OK, obvious sarcasm aside, I have an honest question to those judging from on high. Would you feel the same if the roles were reversed? Would you smile and welcome with open arms those that condemned your marriage with the same terms you are condemning others? Looking for real responses here. And please don’t respond with something that amounts to “because I am right”.
 
No one has condemed a person - that is for God.

We are requred by Scripture and by Tradition to judge actions and to correct those who are wrong.

Jesus is right, that is all the right anyone needs.
 
I guess I should count myself lucky that so many Catholic friends and family attended our Public Formalization of Adultery ceremony my “wife” and I had this past September. We are hoping to have our first Bastard Child sometime next year. I just hope we have enough goats for the sacrificial alter to make it happen.

OK, obvious sarcasm aside, I have an honest question to those judging from on high. Would you feel the same if the roles were reversed? Would you smile and welcome with open arms those that condemned your marriage with the same terms you are condemning others? Looking for real responses here. And please don’t respond with something that amounts to “because I am right”.
Good Bless you dear brother and many blessings to you and your family.
 
I would never in a million years ask my friends or family to do something that is in violation of their faith.

I do not serve ham to my kosher Jewish friends.

I do not require my evangelical Christian family to go to Eucharistic Adoration with me, nor do I pray the rosary at their dining room table.

When I visit my Amish friends, I do not bring a boom box with a Metallica CD.

If my devout Mormom friends were having a temple wedding, I would not get bent out of shape because I could not attend.

Why should anyone get offended about their friends and family practicing their faith? I am not attending an invalid wedding because to do so would be sinful for ME.
 
You are close that_name, but not quite.

Your first response was basically the “I’m right” response that doesn’t really help here. Of course you said “Jesus is right” and tied yourself exclusively to Jesus, thereby avoiding the situation, but no matter.

Your second list is OK, but not really very synonymous. Most everything you listed would be acceptable to everyone, and no one would expect otherwise. The Mormon Wedding was close, but I don’t really want to open that can of worms!

So, let me re-ask more directly. Lets say your close family members or friends, ie your parents or siblings, or maybe your closest friends since childhood, boycotted your wedding. They are Christian as well, maybe Anglican or Lutheran, something not far down the Christian family tree. So, these people boycott your “illegitimate” wedding as “sinful”, or some similar language to what has been posted. What are your thoughts on that?
 
So, let me re-ask more directly. Lets say your close family members or friends, ie your parents or siblings, or maybe your closest friends since childhood, boycotted your wedding. They are Christian as well, maybe Anglican or Lutheran, something not far down the Christian family tree. So, these people boycott your “illegitimate” wedding as “sinful”, or some similar language to what has been posted. What are your thoughts on that?
I will say it again, I would NEVER ask my parents, friends, buddy, co worker or fed ex guy to violate his or her personal beleifs.

If attending my wedding would be something that my parent, friend, buddy, co worker or fed ex guy would find sinful, I’d go out of my way to let them know that I respect their beliefs and that I would never even expect them to attend my wedding. It would be horridly unkind of me to ask them to do something they found sinful.

Attending an invalid wedding would for me be a sinful action. My friends and family and co workers and fed ex guy have enough love and respect for my faith that they respect me sticking to my beleifs and know that I still care about them.

It is funny how many people think the Catholics are the only ones who should suck up our beliefs 🤷
 
I would never in a million years ask my friends or family to do something that is in violation of their faith.

I do not serve ham to my kosher Jewish friends.

I do not require my evangelical Christian family to go to Eucharistic Adoration with me, nor do I pray the rosary at their dining room table.

When I visit my Amish friends, I do not bring a boom box with a Metallica CD.

If my devout Mormom friends were having a temple wedding, I would not get bent out of shape because I could not attend.

Why should anyone get offended about their friends and family practicing their faith? I am not attending an invalid wedding because to do so would be sinful for ME.
Sure, this is true. I think, too, that we may tell a family member, “Listen, I love you, I wish you every good thing, I never want to hurt you, but I can’t, in good conscience, get behind this wedding. I know you are doing the best as you see the best, and that is your right, but I do not accept civil divorce as freeing a person to re-marry when the first marriage was putatively valid. According to the faith we were raised in, you two are not free to marry. I hope you won’t hold it against me, but it would be as wrong for me to be there as if you were committing a bigamy that the state would recognize, too.” We can let them decide how to interpret that and what to do with that, and not accept guilt trips about it. (Meaning: While we can expect that they very well may not want to have much to do with us after that, we can accept that and not beat ourselves up about it.)

Having said that…our faith does not forbid us from attending the marriages of non-Catholics, even the weddings of Catholics who have left the faith, if those marriages are putatively valid. If someone we know has left the Church, but is putatively free to marry and is marrying another person who is free to marry according to the understanding of* their* faith, we may attend those weddings, even if they are not contracting according to the understanding of our own faith, particularly if not doing so would wound family bonds. (I am talking about Catholics who consider themselves to have formally left the Church, whether they’ve dotted their "i"s about it correctly or not.)

It is not right to blame the Church for teachings she does not teach. Therefore, we have to honestly represent what is our adherence to the faith and what is our adherence to the private dictates of conscience, as well. After all, if two Catholics are marrying who are totally free to marry on paper, but we feel the wedding is a huge mistake, we might act in the same way as if the Church were forbidding the marriage. We would just admit the reason is our own judgement, and not the judgement of the Church, that is all I mean.
 
I would strongly advise not to go to the wedding service. Inasmuch as some may consider this harsh advice, your attending this service would give scandal and the impression that you are condoning the fact that your brother has separated himself from Christ and His Church.

Jesus never said that it would be easy to follow Him. In fact, He sadly lamented the fact that following Him would bring division among families, brother against brother, father against son, etc. While family is important, we have to realize that God comes first. What your brother is doing is wrong. Even though you still love him, his actions should not be condoned. Pray for his reversion, but, do not assist at the wedding service.
While I don’t agree with your assessment that attending the non-Catholic wedding of a family member who has left the Church is going to automatically give scandal to anyone except those guilty of very rash judgement, I agree that someone who sees the situation as you do may very well be conscience-bound not to attend.

When there is a question of giving scandal, in other words, it is usually a matter that has to be discerned on the ground, taking into account what the attitudes of those in question actually are. I am speaking of when we believe it permissible to attend a wedding, but are concerned that someone else might take serious scandal, drawing improper conclusions about our attendance.

Where I am, nobody takes attendance at a wedding as endorsement of the religious choices of those involved, but rather as an act of tolerance, made for the sake of the couple. It would only constitute an endorsement of the marriage itself, and even then, not if it is a family member that is getting married. In that case, since attendance is de rigueur, nobody holds it against you. The number of people who have had to sit through a wedding binding them to a new in-law that they never wanted is legion. Nobody is going to think you are all of a sudden OK with divorce because you attend the wedding of your divorced-and-remarrying brother. They know you go because, like it or not, this new person is going to be there for every family gathering until both of your parents are buried, and you have to get along with them. To refuse to attend would be seen not as an act of conscience, but as a kind of a public self-indulging of anger that your brother’s life isn’t under your control. It is interpreted as making a scene, and not a virtuous scene, either.

As I said, that is the way it would be taken here in Oregon. Maybe you don’t go because your conscience doesn’t let you, but you don’t stay home from a wedding because someone else’s opinion is going to smite you over it. It isn’t seen that way. Attendance is about tolerance, then, and not endorsement. Your actions are about what you have decided you cannot or cannot tolerate. Other people’s tolerances or intolerances are their choice, and their problem. If you don’t attend your brother’s wedding, it says you are having nothing to do with letting this new person into the family. It is really and very publicly throwing down the gauntlet, and it would be hard to make it otherwise, without the full cooperation of the family member and their intended. (Meaning: the couple is OK with your absence and does not care what anyone else thinks.)

In other circumstances, though, if regrets are necessary, it is possible to tender these regrets with gentleness and compassion, too. While a Christian may have to absent himself even if the decision causes division in the family, it is not necessarily true that it will do so. It is possible to agree to disagree without mutual rejection as a fall-out. Not guaranteed, but worth a try.
 
I will say it again, I would NEVER ask my parents, friends, buddy, co worker or fed ex guy to violate his or her personal beleifs.

If attending my wedding would be something that my parent, friend, buddy, co worker or fed ex guy would find sinful, I’d go out of my way to let them know that I respect their beliefs and that I would never even expect them to attend my wedding. It would be horridly unkind of me to ask them to do something they found sinful.

Attending an invalid wedding would for me be a sinful action. My friends and family and co workers and fed ex guy have enough love and respect for my faith that they respect me sticking to my beleifs and know that I still care about them.

It is funny how many people think the Catholics are the only ones who should suck up our beliefs 🤷
Interesting. So your answer is “it wouldn’t bother me at all and I am happy they are strong in their faith”? That is very impressive to me. I know if parents/siblings had done that at our wedding, I would be very hurt. I guess I find it hard to believe that people would be nonchalant about being abandoned on their wedding day. Do you have any experiences with this at your wedding?

That brings up a second follow on question: To all the people recommending boycotting a close family wedding, has anyone had this happen to them first hand? Meaning, a demonstrated time when they were on the receiving end, so to speak, of this kind of treatment? And it must be a similar situation. Not 3 times divorced/on Meth/Pegan situation. Similar to the OP, two otherwise nice and normal people, just different Christian background. I would love to hear from them.
 
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