Not By Faith Alone

[San_Patricio]

Do you put your faith in the works of Jesus?
or in your works?
No grey area, it is black and white.

Obviously we put our Faith in Christ, but he clearly calls us to PARTICIPATE in His saving Grace. If we just have Faith and DO NOTHING with it, we are wasting the gift He has given us and WILL NOT BE SAVED.
You’re right, it is black and white, no grey, but you appear to be looking at it through Orange lenses…

 

[mikeledes]

2 Peter 1:5-9 (New International Version)

**For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; and to knowledge, self-control; and to self-control, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love. For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. But if anyone does not have them, he is nearsighted and blind, and has forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins. **

My question to you, myfavoritemartin and anyone else who believes in Sola Fide, is this. What will happen to the man that does not add these qualities to their faith, is unporductive, and has thus “forgotten that he has been cleansed from his past sins?”

Now let’s take a look at James 2:14

"What use is it, my brethren, if someone says he has faith but he has no works? Can that faith SAVE Him?

What is James’ answer to this question? Is it yes or no? If faith must be productive in order to be genuine, then how do you explain the unproductive Christian of 2 Peter 2:9 who has “forgotten he has been cleansed from his past sins?” If not, then why would James ask the question in the first place?

Finally:

James 2:24

“You see that man is justified by works and not by faith alone.”

1. Is the faith mentioned in this verse genuine faith?
2. Is this verse talking about justification? If not, why does James use the word “justified”?
3. Is this a response to the question he poses in verse 14, namely, Can that faith save him? If not, where is the response to this question?

I have several questions here. Unfortuntaely, I have a feeling they will be ignored and I will not get a response. I wonder why… Could it be that the inevitable response is so frightening to the Sola Fide heart that they evade it at all cost?

God Bless,
Michael

 

[mikeledes]

In order to understand Catholic teaching on justification and salvation, one must understand fully the Cross of Christ. What did He die for? Does the Cross mean I don’t have to fulfill any obligations that will affect my salvation?

The Cross of Christ was not merely a substitutionary sacrifice. He did not just simply die in order to pay the price of our sins, which is eternal damnation. Nor did he die so that we did not have to do anything. Christ died on the cross to pay the price of our sins and to liberate us from enslavement to sin so that we could have the freedom to serve our God in righteousness:

Romans 6:13-14, 17-19

"And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin, but present yourself to God as being alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God. For sin shall not have dominion over you, for you are not under the law but under grace. … But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that doctrine to which you were delivered. And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. … For just as you presented your members as slaves of unclenannes, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present (i.e. word of action) your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness. "

Romans 7:4

“Therefore, my brethren, you have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another - to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God.”

Galatians 5:13

"For you brethren have been called to liberty; only do not use liberty as an opportunity for the flesh, but through LOVE serve one another. For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even this: ’ YOU SHALL LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR AS YOURSELF’.

The Cross gave us the freedom to serve God by loving Him and by loving our neighbor as ourselves. This love is a fruit of the Holy Spirit and does not orignate in the human will. How does the Bible define “love”?

2 John 6

“This is love, that we walk according to His commandments. This is the commandment, that as you have heard from the beginning, you should walk in it.”

Love also means doing works of charity (1 John 3;17-18) What avails is faith working through love! Avails in what? Avails in our salvation (Matthew 19:7, Luke 10:25-38, Matthew 16:27, 25:33-46).

Christ died on the Cross not only to make us righteous before God, but to give us the freedom and empower us to fulfill the call to live in righteousness that comes with justification by freely giving us the Holy Spirit. Not using this freedom to serve God by persevering in righteousness is a rejection of what Christ did for us and the will of God. That is why the fruitless branches in Christ will be cut off, wither, and thrown into the fire.

God Bless,
Michael

 

[mikeledes]

Like I stated earlier, those who believe in salvation by faith alone and eternal security generally confuse justification (being made righteous) with glorification (actually inheriting eternal life in its fullest sense in the age to come). The Biblical passages on salvation can generally be divided into two categories: those that apply to the period between one’s calling and justification and those that apply to the period between one’s justification and glorification.

Calling to Justification (Being Made Righteous, "In Christ."

In this stage of our salvation, works play absolutely no role, only grace by faith in Christ. The following Bible verses apply (There are plenty more, but i’ll just list the two most popular ones):

Romans 4:5

“But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness.”

Ephesians 2:8

“For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourself; it is the gift of God. Not of works, lest anyone should boast.”

Justification to Glorification (Remaining Righteous)

In this stage of salvation, the justified are called to live in righteousness in order to conform their lives to the gift of justification. If they fail to fulfilll their call, they risk eternal damnation. What matters in this stage is faith working through love.

Galatians 5:6

"For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.

1 Corinthians 7:19

“Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters.”

Luke 10:15-28

And behold, a certain lawyer stood up and tested Him (Jesus) saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life.” He said to him, “What is written in the law? What is your reading of it?” So he answered, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your strength, and with all your mind” and “your neighbor as yourself.” And He said to him, "You have answered rightly; DO THIS AND YOU WILL LIVE

John 15: 2, 6, 10
"Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away… If anyone does NOT ABIDE IN ME, he is CAST OUT as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and THROW THEM INTO THE FIRE, and they are burned… If you KEEP MY COMMANDMENTS, you will ABIDE in my love (Compare with Romans 11:16-23).

1 John 3:24
"Now he who keeps the commandments abides in Him, and He in Him.

Romans 2:6-7

"Who will render to each one according to his deeds. Eternal Life to those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor, and immortality.

Galatians 6:7-9

"Do not be deceived, God is not mocked; for whatever an man sows, that he will also reap. For he who sows to the flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit REAP EVERLASTING LIFE. And let us not grow weary while doing good, for in due season WE SHALL REAP, IF we do not lose heart.

James 2:24

"You see then that a man is justified by works, and not by faith only.

Revelation 20:13

"… And they were judged, each one according to his works (Comapre with Matthew 25:32-46).

There are more where these came from. The point is that once we are justified by grace through faith, what we do does make a difference on where we will spend eternity. God has made it clear that if we want to remain justified, we must fulfill the call to rigteousness by continually keeping the commandments and doing acts of love until the end. This can only be done if you are led by the Holy Spirit.

God Bless,
Michael

 

[Jim_Baur]

Hope and faith are not the same.

Hope comes first.

First is in the cardinal and not ordinal sense.

 

[Redbandito]

I agree that in large part some are talking past others. In fact, I mentioned this long ago. I disagree that we are all talking past each other since many people have responded to direct questions posed by others. Which is it redbandito? are we or are we not talking past each other?

Maybe this is where the breakdown in the thread has come from. It appears your inability to distinguish between “some” and “all” as posted above, gives us a clue as to why you are unable to distinguish between supposedly “contradictory” verses on faith and works. Or maybe you are just trying too hard to make me look inconsistent. Unfortunately, in trying to do so, it is you who stepped in it. Just remember, I was begging you for an honest discussion.

martin:

I won’t say any names.
Lemme say it for you…MYFAVORITMARTIN…

If the shoe fits…

martin:

I will do what I can. I look forward to seeing what some others come up with. Should be interesting.
Randy, I appreciate what you guys would call ecumenicalism in your thought process, though remember I understand ecumenical from Romes standpoint," fall under us or their is no solution"… I am going to share with you justification in God’s word not an organization defining God’s word… I only hope you guys can do the same, even though I know you get all your answers from and must fall under the approval of Rome…

Oh please. This is the most fallacious argument yet. You approach the Scriptures with “Faith Alone” goggles. This is a Protestant tradition. God’s Word does NOT teach it. It has been made very evident on this thread, through an appeal to the SCRIPTURES (not the Catechism), that God’s Word teaches precisely the Catholic position on faith and works.

Furthermore, Catholic ecumenism in no way resembles your presentation. That is an ad hominem attack on the Church. It’s very disappointing that you continue to resort to these tactics. Again, engage the dialogue.

Finally, it’s “ecumenism.”

God Bless.

 

[Randy_Carson]

Justification: Doctrine of Council of Trent
by Fr. William G. Most

What is justification? Loosely, it means getting right with God. But there is an impassable gap between the Catholic and the Lutheran position after that point. Luther insisted that even after justification we are totally corrupt and really, have no free will (The Bondage of the Will). The Catholic teaching is that justification means the reception of (sanctifying) grace for the first time. This grace changes us, making us share in the divine nature( 2 Peter 1. 4) which is far different from being totally corrupt. It gives us the basic ability to take part in the face to face vision of God in the next life (1 Cor 13:12). So the soul becomes even now the temple of the Holy Spirit: 1 Cor 6:19 -could we imagine God joining Himself for eternity to a soul that is totally corrupt? Rather, “who can stand when He appears? For He is like the refiner’s fire”: Mal 3:2).

This is a tremendous thought. When I look at you, I do not take you into my mind, I take in an image of you. But no image could let me know what God really is, so there must be no image in the process (Defined thus by Benedict XII: DS 1000). So it must be that God joins Himself directly to the human soul or mind, without even an image in between so that the soul may know Him face to face.

2 Peter 1:4 said by this grace we share in the divine nature. So we are made children of God, “heirs of God, fellow heirs with Christ - provided that we suffer with Him so that we may be glorified with Him”: Rom 8:17. We notice the condition attached at the end. We are saved and made holy if and to the extent that we are members of Christ, and like Him. So we are not saved alone, we are saved as brothers of Christ, sharing the same divine nature with Him (2 Pet. 1:4).

Now the child of a Father has a claim to inherit. So we have, by justification, a claim to inherit from our Father, to inherit a place in His mansions. But, a merit is simply a claim. So we could say that having grace is a merit. Yet we gained that first grace without any merit of our own. We can, however, merit increases in it (DS 1574), since we then have the dignity of sons of God. If we keep that grace, we will enter His mansions. But we could lose it by mortal sin. So Trent defined: If anyone says that the justification that is received is not kept and even increased before God by good works… A. S." But this presupposes reception of grace for the firs time without any merit at all. As to “keeping” justification: All concrete actions are either good or evil. If we commit evil, mortally, we lose that grace. If we do not commit mortal sin, then this grace is kept.

We achieve justification by faith. But Luther, without any checking, simply assumed that faith means confidence that the merits of Christ apply to me. Then I would be infallibly saved, for in a ledger for myself, on the credit page I would write infinity, the merits of Christ; on the debit page, the number for my sins. Hence no matter how much I have sinned, am sinning, will sin - all is outweighed by the infinite merits of Christ. So I have infallible salvation.

The trouble is that, as we said, Luther made no effort to see what St. Paul meant by faith. If we read all of Paul, we find three things:1) If God speaks a truth, we believe it in our mind; 2) If He make a promise, we are confident in it; 3) If He tells us to do something, we must do it-- “the obedience of faith” :Rom 1:5. - Even a standard Protestant reference work, Interpreter’s Dictionary of the Bible, in Supplement, p. 333, describes Pauline faith just as we have done). But poor Luther did not see that faith includes obedience to God, and so he wrote: “Be a sinner and sin boldly, but believe and rejoice in Christ even more boldly.… No sin will separate us from the Lamb, even though we commit fornication and murder a thousand times a day.” (Weimar ed. vol. 2. p. 372; Letters I, Luther’s Works, American ed. vol. 48, p. 282. Luther in his Exposition on the Psalms 130. 4; wrote: “If this article [justification by faith] stands, the church stands;’ if it falls, the church falls.” Since he did not know what St. Paul meant by faith, his church never did stand. – and further, he had no means of knowing which books are part of Scripture. He tried to say that if a book preaches justification by faith strongly, it is inspired. He did not notice that most books of Scripture do not even mention the subject.

continued

 

[Randy_Carson]

Part 2

Here are the chief texts of the Council of Trent on these matters:

---

First Stage
Capitulum 8 on justification. DS 1532: “… we are said to be justified gratuitously for this reason, because nothing of those things that come before justification, whether faith, or works, earns the grace of justification itself… .”

---

Second Stage
Canon 32 on Justification. DS 1582: “If any one says that the works of a man who has been justified [has received first grace] are in such a way the gifts of God that they are not also the good merits of the one who is justified, or that the one who is justified does not really merit by good works, which are done by him through the grace of God and Jesus Christ [does not really merit] eternal life and the attainment of eternal life itself (if however he dies in grace) and even an increase in glory, let him be anathema.” COMMENT: They are merit in that they are a claim to a reward. The claim is established since first grace, unearned, makes us children of God, who as such have a claim to inherit. And we are brothers of Christ, who did establish a claim albeit on the secondary level. After we are made children of God, this dignity gives a ground for merit of additions to grace.

---

Conclusions

1. There is justification by faith, without works. Examine each of the three words:
   a) Justification: Means getting right with God. It makes us adopted sons (Rom 8. 17) and sharers in the divine nature (2 Pt. 1. 4) and temples of the Holy Spirit (1 Cor. 19). That is not a spatial presence, spirits do not take up space. A spirit is present wherever he causes an effect. What effect? The transformation of the soul making it radically capable of the vision of God in the next life: 1 Cor 13.12.
   b) Faith: It is itself a gift (Eph 2.8). It includes three things according to Paul: belief in mind, confidence, obedience.
   c) Without works: which works? Not just the ceremonial and dietary works for that could imply that other works can justify us. But they cannot do that for no man is just before God by his own power (Rom 3.24:we are justified gratis). Abraham had works other than those, but they did not earn justification, if they did, he would have a boast, but not before God.
   Final salvation is an inheritance:1 Cor 6.9-10. We could not earn the inheritance, nor need we do it, but we could earn to lose it: ibid. We are adopted children. But children do not earn their inheritance, though they could earn to lose it: Rom 6.23. We get a claim not of ourselves, but inasmuch as we are brothers/members of Christ, who did earn, and are like Him in all things, including work of rebalancing the objective order: Rom 8.17. Yet we do have a claim, inasmuch as first grace, unmerited, makes us children of God, who as such, have a claim to inherit.
2. What of the OT “justifications”? They did not of themselves give this grace, but promised temporal reward: Probably did not know eternal reward until time of Antiochus IV. – And no OT sacrifice was provided for sins be yad ramah, but only for sheggagah.
3. Why good works? Because faith includes obedience, which calls for them. Also, out of gratitude to so good a Father who even gives us by grace an inclination to good works. He, being Holiness, loves all that is good, and so is pleased with our good works. But they do not at all earn salvation in primary sense (Cf. DS 1532 above): if they did, we would have a boast.

 

[Redbandito]

Excellent posts Randy. I don’t think anything needs to be added to that. Thank you for your work.

 

[mikeledes]

:bowdown: Randy, this is the best post I have read on the Catholic Church’s teaching on justification. :clapping: I know who I’ll be contacting whenever there is a thread on justifcation. I haven’t heard from myfavoritemartin. It would be interesting to hear a response from him.

God Bless,
Michael

 

[Redbandito]

Martin disappeared after he made claims that were false and was exposed.

 

[mikeledes]

I think you have all heard that it is by faith alone but by faith that is not alone…as indicated by the scripture below…

Galatians 5:6 KJV 6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

and certainly in the book of James. True repentant and saving faith in Christ as Lord and Savior beings about justification and is a work of God in the heart of the believer…

2 Corinthians 7:10 KJV 10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.
Acts 3:19 KJV 19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

What I find interseting is thatone can believ that a true believer can fall away but that is a contradiction of Scripture…

1 John 5:4 KJV 4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

This indicates that a truly justified individual, born again/of God/from above, what have you, will persevere in the faith. It is very much implied here as well…

John 13:8-10 KJV 8 Peter saith unto him, Thou shalt never wash my feet. Jesus answered him, If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with me. 9 Simon Peter saith unto him, Lord, not my feet only, but also my hands and my head. 10 Jesus saith to him, **He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit **and ye are clean, but not all.

Paul gives this idea as well…

Hebrews 10:38-39 KJV 38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. 39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

I am not sure how you get around these things.

I was so focused on myfavoritemartin that I overlooked this one. If we cannot lose our salvation and true believers will inevitably endure until the end, then explain how a person can be erased from the Book of Life (Exodus 32:32-33) and also explain John 15. The branches can only refer to true believers because only true faith can unite you to Christ (the Vine). If you are not united to Christ, then you cannot be a “branch.” Moreover, note that the sequence of events that happens to the branch that does not abide (i.e. remain) in Christ: it is taken away, withers, and burnt. A person taken away from Christ spiritually dies (i.e. withers) because he has been taken away from the source of eternal life and the inveitable end is eternal damnation (i.e. burnt).

God Bless,
Michael

 

[mikeledes]

Martin disappeared after he made claims that were false and was exposed.

Does not surprise me. I’ve seen it happen before in other threads. They throw their favorite veses at us, never directly respond to the verses we present, and disappear. Oh,and when we point out that they haven’t responded to the verses we presented to them, some will that they won’t respond because we’re not going to believe them anyway if they give an alternative interpretation. A nic copout. All this does is reaffirm that the Catholic Church teachings on justification and salvation are right.

God Bless,
Michael

 

[bibleapologist]

If Romans 7 refers to the Christian post justification, then we are unspiritual and in bondage to sin. That is the complete opposite of what Paul says in Romans 5 and 6 and in the chapter 8. What he is talking is the state of the unjustified deprived of God’s grace and the Holy Spirit. That is why in the end of chapter 6 Paul is talking about how the law produced death in him and in chapter 7 he says that he is ENSLAVED by the sin that is in his members. If he is alking about himself post-justification, then this completely contradicts what he just said a chapter earlier whaen he tells Christians they ARE NO LONGER IN BONDAGE TO SIN, and to present their members as INSTRUMENTS OF RIGHTEOUSNESS. This could not be done while being unjustified. So Romans 7 is talking about what Paul experienced BEFORE justification.

God Bless,
Michael

That is a nice exposition of YOUR justification (of your position that is), but it has no biblical foundation.

Paul stated in his letter to Timothy…

"1Ti 1:15 This [is] a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. "

Paul didn’t say I “was” the chief of sinners … but that during the time of his writing this infallible epistle, he was the chief of sinners.

BA

 

[bibleapologist]

Michael,

I have several questions here. Unfortuntaely, I have a feeling they will be ignored and I will not get a response. I wonder why… Could it be that the inevitable response is so frightening to the Sola Fide heart that they evade it at all cost?

I will assume that you inadvertently hit the [enter] key on your computer before you came to your “Christian” senses and deleted that last paragraph.

You have posted quite a bit, and I will answer you. But I am not going to answer you on a particular point at a time because something is sure to be neglected by doing that.

BA

 

[Randy_Carson]

I received the following from Tim Enloe, a Protestant who was formerly involved in apologetics work. Tim says he doesn’t “do” apologetics anymore, and you can visit his website at www.timenloe.org. Tim wrote:“The “sola” in sola fide doesn’t eliminate works from consideration. It functions as an adjectival phrase within a system of theology that (and I know that as a Catholic you think this is wrong, but just go with it for now) posits a distinction, but not a separation, between justification and sanctification. In that system, no works contribute to justification, while sanctification is all works–just works done all by faith. The Protestant doctrine has no problem with the passages that say things like he who is faithful to the end will be saved.”
Tim says that Protestantism notes a “distinction” but not a separation between justification and sanctification.

This is interesting because I was just reading an article on the Catholic doctrine on justification which stated:“The Council of Trent helped to clarify and reinforce the Church’s doctrine of justification, by focusing on sanctification as part of justification [emphasis added]. The Council’s decrees laid to rest the heretical doctrines of the Protestant Reformers by insisting that justification of the believer is not a forensic declaration of a person’s righteousness, but an actual interior purification of the soul. Justification truly makes the soul just through grace. Thus the sanctification fo the soul is a necessary part of justification.”

It sounds to me like the Council of Trent noted a “distinction” but not a separation just as Tim said.

So, is there really very little (if any) difference between the Catholic and Protestant positions? Is Tim just plain wrong? Or is Tim on track while most other Protestants have lost their way?

 

[Redbandito]

That is a nice exposition of YOUR justification (of your position that is), but it has no biblical foundation.

Paul stated in his letter to Timothy…

"1Ti 1:15 This [is] a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. "

Paul didn’t say I “was” the chief of sinners … but that during the time of his writing this infallible epistle, he was the chief of sinners.

BA

I will say that I do agree with BA on this one. Since our justification is a PROCESS, we are not perfected until we come into the fullness of it in Heaven. I agree with you BA, we are all still sinners. God’s sanctifying grace is MAKING us righteous. Therefore, God’s end for us is to be perfected. Each day that we cooperate with His grace, it transforms us more and more.

 

[Redbandito]

I received the following from Tim Enloe, a Protestant who was formerly involved in apologetics work. Tim says he doesn’t “do” apologetics anymore, and you can visit his website at www.timenloe.org. Tim wrote:"The “sola” in sola fide doesn’t eliminate works from consideration. It functions as an adjectival phrase within a system of theology that (and I know that as a Catholic you think this is wrong, but just go with it for now) posits a distinction, but not a separation, between justification and sanctification. In that system, no works contribute to justification, while sanctification is all works–just works done all by faith. The Protestant doctrine has no problem with the passages that say things like he who is faithful to the end will be saved."Tim says that Protestantism notes a “distinction” but not a separation between justification and sanctification.

This is interesting because I was just reading an article on the Catholic doctrine on justification which stated:“The Council of Trent helped to clarify and reinforce the Church’s doctrine of justification, by focusing on sanctification as part of justification [emphasis added]. The Council’s decrees laid to rest the heretical doctrines of the Protestant Reformers by insisting that justification of the believer is not a forensic declaration of a person’s righteousness, but an actual interior purification of the soul. Justification truly makes the soul just through grace. Thus the sanctification fo the soul is a necessary part of justification.”
It sounds to me like the Council of Trent noted a “distinction” but not a separation just as Tim said.

So, is there really very little (if any) difference between the Catholic and Protestant positions? Is Tim just plain wrong? Or is Tim on track while most other Protestants have lost their way?

Not to mention, James does not say we are “sanctified by works,” but rather “justified.” No matter how hard they try to get around that verse, it just keeps coming back to bite them. Better to just accept the plain sense of Scripture and move on. They try so hard to rectify these verses with their position, coming closer to the Catholic faith, but yet wanting to remain distinct. There is no logical consistency.

 

[mikeledes]

That is a nice exposition of YOUR justification (of your position that is), but it has no biblical foundation.

Paul stated in his letter to Timothy…

"1Ti 1:15 This [is] a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief. "

Paul didn’t say I “was” the chief of sinners … but that during the time of his writing this infallible epistle, he was the chief of sinners.

BA

Once again, I have never said that the Christians can never sin. But I believe in God’s word when he says that for every temptation we undergo He provides the way out. Unfortunately, we don’t always accept this way out. This is a free act of the will. I was challenging your interpretation of Romans 7, which is addressing a specific situation, not the fact that Christians sin.

God Bless,
Michael

 

[mikeledes]

A queston to Bibleapologist and any other Protestant. When Jesus is described as being righteous, what does that mean? Is it a mere judicial righteousness?

God Bless,
Michael