Not By Faith Alone

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So are a Man’s works his or a gift of grace from God, therefore Gods, and because they are a fruit of the faith this I agree with, what effect do they have toward our salvation?
Yes. Our works are a gift of grace from God. The effect on salvation is, as James taught, that when we reject this gift without repentance, we reject God. Thus, we “fall” from our justification that we thought we were standing firm in (1 Cor 10:13).
 
How many of these 10 points would you agree with?
God gives a sinner right standing with himself by mercifully accounting him innocent or virtuous.
God gives a sinner right standing with himself by placing Christ’s goodness and virtue to his credit.
God accepts the believer because of the righteousness found in Jesus Christ.
If a person becomes “born again” he achieves right standing with God on the basis of Christ’s work alone.
We receive right standing with God by faith .
We receive right standing with God by accepting the fact that Christ obeyed the law perfectly for us.
We follow Christ’s example because his death has given us right standing with God.
God first pronounces that we are good in his sight, then gives us his Spirit to make us good.
Christ’s intercession at God’s right hand gives us favor in the sight of God.
Only by faith in the doing and dying of Christ can we satisfy the claims of the Ten Commandments.
I would, more or less, agree with all ten of those. I don’t think those are the whole story, but I don’t necessarily disagree with any of those points. Just one thing I would point out is that in point #8, you have just changed your position. Imputation is a complete substitution of righteousness (Christ’s for our own). This is what you have been arguing. Infusion is that the H.S. transforms us and “makes us good” or righteous, which is what WE have been arguing. Therefore, if you accept point 8, you believe in infusion, not imputation, whether you know it or not.
 
Linkowski;

Father Cantalamessa is even better in the original Italian. It is always good to read exactly what someone has written as opposed to a summary of it, regardless of the source. Catholic Online has his three part sermon translated into English. Reading it has been enlightening.

The paragraph following what was quoted in your posting (“Gratuitous justification by faith in Christ is the heart of this type of preaching, and it is a shame that this is, in turn, practically absent from ordinary preaching in the Church.”)

Note: ‘ordinary’ preaching means the homily at Mass, not what issues from a bishop, or council of bishops, or the Pope, or the Congregation for the Indoctrination of the Faith.

Here is the following paragraph in its entirety:

"In this respect something strange has occurred. To the objections raised by the reformers, the Council of Trent had given a Catholic response, that there is a place for faith and for good works, each one, it was understood, in its place. One is not saved by good works, but one cannot be saved without good works. Nevertheless, from this moment in which Protestants insisted unilaterally on faith, Catholic preaching and spirituality ended up accepting the nearly exclusive and thankless work of calling to mind the need for good works and of one’s personal contribution to salvation. The result is that the great majority of Catholics have lived entire lives without having ever heard a direct announcement of gratuitous justification by faith, without too many ‘buts.’ "

What Father Cantalamessa said is common knowledge to those who read the Catechism and study their faith. But he is correct that the great majority of Catholics (and I daresay Protestants) have no idea what their faiths believe or how they differ.

Your sign off is gratuitous and gives the impression that “faith alone” is all you need as per Father Cantalamessa’s sermons. Nothing could be farther from the truth.

Pax Christi
 
They view grace as a sort of “substance” that God infuses into us that permits us to do those works that are necessary in order that we might earn more grace. The Bible describes grace as the loving and favorable disposition of God; in other words, grace is all about what God is doing and giving.
This is a false dichotomy. The problem with documents like this is that they try to make either/or’s out of something that is clearly a both/and. The Catholic Church teaches that God infuses us with the HS and makes us righteous. Therefore any more righteousness that comes to the faithful Christian is still ultimately a result of the grace given to the Christian in the first place. Thus, it is not the Christian that merits the grace, but rather God’s grace meriting more grace. The fact that the Christian is entrusted to take care of this free gift, and grow his “talents” (Mt 25:14-28), does not make it any less of a gift. Likewise, Catholics agre that “grace” is “the loving and favorable disposition of God; in other words, grace is all about what God is doing and giving.” Again, if works are the fruit of the grace given to us, we do not “earn” salvation, in a strict sense, because of our works. God is doing these works in us. However, when we deny this grace the ability to operate freely, we thereby reject God’s “favorable disposition,” and as a loving God, He must thereby respect our wishes. Love must be freely given, never coerced. To force us to remain in a state of grace, against our will, is contrary to God’s nature. Therefore, we must continue to cooperate with God’s grace in order to continue to be justified.
 
Another point to be made is this: If, in fact, Rome does teach justification as the Bible teaches it, then there should be an immediate change in its view of indulgences, prayer to the saints and the myriad of other extra-biblical traditions that it has embraced. For if justification is the heart and center of the Bible, then these other things are incompatible with it.
This merely begs the question. Perhaps the author of this document does not grasp the concepts he criticizes. Perhaps the author is mistaken when he equates “extra-biblical traditions” with “un-biblical traditions.” Perhaps he is wrong all together to call these “extra-biblical traditions.” Maybe if he understood justification more appropriately, he would grasp the importance of these other doctrines. Perhaps…
 
Cantalamessa
Fr. Cantalamessa rocks. My wife just finished reading his book entitled, The Eucharist - Our Sanctification, that would blow you away.

Preaching on the Real Presence of Christ - body, blood, soul and divinity - in the Eucharist doesn’t get any clearer than this.

I’d like to encourage you to read all the Cantalamessa you can get your hands on! 👍
 
Do we all agree that we are saved by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone? I believe that is the case. What I cannot understand is that no one seems to get it…we are not saved by faith AND works but by faith THAT works. True saving faith can be seen in the parable of the sower…

Luke 8:11-15 NKJV 11 "Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God. 12 "Those by the wayside are the ones who hear; then the devil comes and takes away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved. 13 "But the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, who believe for a while and in time of temptation fall away. 14 "Now the ones that fell among thorns are those who, when they have heard, go out and are choked with cares, riches, and pleasures of life, and bring no fruit to maturity. 15 "But the ones that fell on the good ground are those who, having heard the word with a noble and good heart, keep it and bear fruit with patience.
Then it says…

Luke 8:18 NKJV 18 “Therefore take heed how you hear. For whoever has, to him more will be given; and whoever does not have, even what he seems to have will be taken from him.”

It is the condition of the heart when we hear the gospel that makes all the difference in the world. The fourth person in the parable is the saved person, with true saving faith, while the other three are not born again. We are saved by faith that works…repentant faith with submission to Christ as Lord…

Romans 10:9 NKJV 9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus (Jesus as Lord) and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

…that is what happened to me. I was blind but now I see, I was deaf but now I hear, I was dead but now alive, I was lame but now able to walk, I was mute but now can speak…It is a miracle of God.

I think what we disagree about most is that a person is saved and saved forever - but the fact of the matter is is that the fourth person in the parable of the sower bore fruit with patience or perseverance. God says it right there - ONCE SAVED ALWAYS SAVED. The other two (and ofcourse the first) were not saved - THAT IS THE KEY - what you say is that they were saved but then they lost it…but the truth is that they were never saved to begin with…key scriptures that you cannot argue against include but are CERTAINLY not limited to…

Hebrews 3:14 NKJV 14 For ***we have become ***partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end,

1 John 5:4 NKJV 4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world–our faith.

I have been born of God - and I will overcome because God has ordained it. You cannot lose salvation - your election that was planned from the foundation or the world cannot be reversed. It cannot happen.

Romans 8:1 NKJV 1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit.

–Saved by faith THAT works and FOREVER.
 
Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is–his good, pleasing and perfect will.
not living for what we want,but what God wants
This is just a caveat because this bothered me and I forgot to include it in the other post.

Mt 4:7: Jesus said to him, “Again it is written, `You shall not tempt the Lord your God.’”

ekpeirazo: means to test thoroughly, to tempt

Mind also who Jesus is saying this to, he also wanted Jesus to test Gods will.

Gods will is known when we talk to him and ask him. He tests us, not we test him.

Peace and God Bless
Nicene
 
This merely begs the question. Perhaps the author of this document does not grasp the concepts he criticizes. Perhaps the author is mistaken when he equates “extra-biblical traditions” with “un-biblical traditions.” Perhaps he is wrong all together to call these “extra-biblical traditions.” Maybe if he understood justification more appropriately, he would grasp the importance of these other doctrines. Perhaps…
Did you go to the link provided? Your critique of the author is a critique of the LCMS, I am sure you understand the term justification better than their think tank of theologians!
👍
Perhaps the LCMS gets un-biblical and extra-biblical and it is your “magisterium” that is missing it, what then?
 
I already answered this directly in a previous post. The difference between God’s work and man’s lies in its origin. If it originates out of unregenerated heart, then it is purely the work of man. If it is done purley out of love for God, and love is a fruit of the Holy Spirit, then it is God’s work. Since only God can judge the motives of a man’s heart, then we cannot determine or even have a right to judge the motives of any man.

If we are led by the Spirit, we will automatically do good. Being led by the Spirit means obeying the promptings of the Spirit (i.e. the desire to do good) by acting these promptings out in doing good.

God Bless,
Michael
 
I would submit we bring more to the table than just our sin. Don’t we also bring our willingness to trust God and obey his commands?
Hello my fellow Minnesotan! I’d like to recommend an awesome church up in your area…www.emmanuelcc.org
give it a try or catch it on cable.

Now to the point.

What effect does willingness to do good works have on salvation? as I noted before…
Knowing the wickedness of man’s nature, **you realize that the good works of the holiest men are stained by the irreverence of human nature. **(Eccl. 7:20) “For there is not a just man on earth who does good and does not sin”.
(Isa 64:6)“But we are all like an unclean thing, and all our righteousness are like filthy rags”
(1 Joh1:8). “If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us”
 
I already answered this directly in a previous post. The difference between God’s work and man’s lies in its origin. If it originates out of unregenerated heart, then it is purely the work of man. If it is done purley out of love for God, and love is a fruit of the Holy Spirit, then it is God’s work. Since only God can judge the motives of a man’s heart, then we cannot determine or even have a right to judge the motives of any man.

If we are led by the Spirit, we will automatically do good. Being led by the Spirit means obeying the promptings of the Spirit (i.e. the desire to do good) by acting these promptings out in doing good.

God Bless,
Michael
So there is no way to tell if we have a regenerated or ungenerated heart? So we just go about doing good works hoping our heart is right? if its not we burn in hell, yet these good works can make or break our salvation? what of all the verses I quoted in post #2?
 
So there is no way to tell if we have a regenerated or ungenerated heart? So we just go about doing good works hoping our heart is right? if its not we burn in hell, yet these good works can make or break our salvation? what of all the verses I quoted in post #2?
We know we have a regenerated heart the same way you know you have been born again. Do you believe that your desire to serve God is a product of your justification? If you do, then so do we.

God Bless,
Michael
 
Hello my fellow Minnesotan! I’d like to recommend an awesome church up in your area…www.emmanuelcc.org
give it a try or catch it on cable.

Now to the point.

What effect does willingness to do good works have on salvation? as I noted before…
Knowing the wickedness of man’s nature, **you realize that the good works of the holiest men are stained by the irreverence of human nature. **(Eccl. 7:20) “For there is not a just man on earth who does good and does not sin”.
(Isa 64:6)“But we are all like an unclean thing, and all our righteousness are like filthy rags”
(1 Joh1:8). “If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us”
So I guess you never do good? I guess Saint Paul telling Christians to do good is impossible since Christians can never do good? Is that what you’re saying?

God Bless,
Michael
 
The Catholic Church does not teach that good works are the “cause of justification”. Good works are the fruit of justification. Practicing righteousness does not make a person rigfhteous before God nor is being righteous the sum total of our righteous acts. Rather, a person FREELY made righteous by performs righteous acts. Righteous acts that please acts that please God can only flow out of a heart that has been freely regenerated by God:

Ezekiel 36:26
“Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart fo stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you and CAUSE YOU to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe my ordinances.”

Luke 6:45
“The good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth what is good…”

1 John 2:28
“If you know He is righteous, you know that everyone who practices righteousness is born of Him.”

God’s free gift of righteousness must PRECEDE any righteous act we must perform.

Therefore, the origin of our righteous acts DOES NOT lie in the human will, but in the Holy Spirit freely given at justification.

Galatians 5:22-23
“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindmess, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control, against such things there is no law… If welive by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit.”

To be continued…
I reaffirm what I said in this post.
 
Part 5

What will happen to those who deliberately resist the Holy Spirit’s operation in their lives (i.e. failing to persvere in keeping the commandments and bearing fruit in good works)?
They will be cut off from the Vine that is Christ (the source of eternal life), blotted out from the Book of Life, and cast into the eternal fire (John 15). Why? By deliberately failing to persevere in conforming their lives to the free gift of justification, they have sinned against God and have rejected His gift. So they are damned not because they did not work hard enough, but because they resisted and rejected the work of God.

Hebrews 10:26-29

"For if we go on sinning deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, BUT A TERRIFYING EXPECTATION OF JUDGEMENT and the FURY OF A FIRE WHICH WILL CONSUME THE ADVERSARIES… How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded unclean the blood of the covenant BY WHICH HE WAS SANCTIFIED, and insulted the Spirit of grace?

Only those made righteous by God can be sanctified by the blood of Christ. Therefore, this verse clearly refers to those who have been genuinely justified but have not endured to the end. Their end is the eternal fire.

God Bless,
Michael
I also reaffirm this post and what it clearly says in John 15 about those “in Christ” who do not persevere in bearing fruit and abide in Christ, namely, thrown into the fire (eternal dmantaion).

God Bless,
Michael
 
I would also like to add that the Bible says that God provides the Christian the means to overcome temptation to sin, so there is no excuse when it is deliberately done.

God Bless,
Michael
 
Did anyone read my posting…I am surprised that there are no responses.
 
In fact, the only time that the Holy Spirit allowed any author to use that infamous phrase, is when He inspired James to write, “You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.” (James 2:24)
?
James is dealing with people who own up to being Christians, and yet they don’t substantiate the truth of their faith by their works.
Again and again people will say they have faith and they don’t have works, and James is saying that bona fide faith always produces works as a result…
Here is the real question "A man says that he has faith, but will that faith validate him? “
if it is just a ‘declared’ faith no it won’t.
 
James is dealing with people who own up to being Christians, and yet they don’t substantiate the truth of their faith by their works.
Again and again people will say they have faith and they don’t have works, and James is saying that bona fide faith always produces works as a result…
Here is the real question "A man says that he has faith, but will that faith validate him? “
if it is just a ‘declared’ faith no it won’t.
So the answer to James’s question “Can that faith save him?” is that faith that produces works and hence validated by works saves? That’s precisely what the Catholic church says!

God Bless,
Michael
 
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