Not By Faith Alone

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gal3:21
21Is the law, therefore, opposed to the promises of God? Absolutely not! For if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come by the law.
 
would ya’ll like to here this…
w/o obedience God will not be available to me…
 
All that God is available to the one who is available to all that God is!
 
myfavoritmartin said:
There is a vast difference between the salvation for the lost,and the doctrine of rewards for believers.
Salvation is a gift (Eph.2:8-9)Eph 2:8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith–and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God–
Eph 2:9 not by works, so that no one can boast. ,not of works.Rewards are according to the works of the believer,any believer on either side of the ;pulpit or podium.(Matt.16:27)Mat 16:7 They discussed this among themselves and said, “It is because we didn’t bring any bread.”
. Every believer will be rewarded according to his own labor **(1 Cor.3:8-15) *vs 8.1Cr 3:8 The man who plants and the man who waters have one purpose, and each will be rewarded according to his own labor.
1Cr 3:9 For we are God’s fellow workers; you are God’s field, God’s building.
1Cr 3:10 By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as an expert builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should be careful how he builds.
1Cr 3:11 For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ.
1Cr 3:12 If any man builds on this foundation using gold, silver, costly stones, wood, hay or straw,
1Cr 3:13 his work will be shown for what it is, because the Day will bring it to light. It will be revealed with fire, and the fire will test the quality of each man’s work.
1Cr 3:14 If what he has built survives, he will receive his reward.
1Cr 3:15 If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames
The believer has two types of building materials 1)eternal or temporal, vs.12^;( 2 Cor.4:18)>
2Cr 4:18 So we fix our eyes not on what is seen, but on what is unseen. For what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal.
. Only the believer building on eternal materials will receive a reward. The “wood,hay,straw” works will be destroyed at the “Judgement Seat of Christ” 2 Cor .5;10. 2Cr 5:10 For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive what is due him for the things done while in the body, whether good or bad.

Some believers Will be ashamed at the Judgement Seat of Christ. **1 Jn.2;28 1Jo 2:28 And now, dear children, continue in him, so that when he appears we may be confident and unashamed before him at his coming.
. Some will be saved,but with few works of value to the Lord 1 Cor.3;15. 1Cr 3:15 If it is burned up, he will suffer loss; he himself will be saved, but only as one escaping through the flames.
FIRST Crown, The Crown of Life James1;12
Jam 1:12 Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life that God has promised to those who love him.
…Secondly, The Crown Imperishable, 1 Cor. 9;24-27
1Cr 9:24 Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one gets the prize? Run in such a way as to get the prize.
1Cr 9:25 Everyone who competes in the games goes into strict training. They do it to get a crown that will not last; but we do it to get a crown that will last forever.
1Cr 9:26 Therefore I do not run like a man running aimlessly; I do not fight like a man beating the air.
1Cr 9:27 No, I beat my body and make it my slave so that after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified for the prize.
Thirdly, The Crown of Rejoicing, 1 Thess.2;19-20,
1Th 2:19 For what is our hope, our joy, or the crown in which we will glory in the presence of our Lord Jesus when he comes? Is it not you?
1Th 2:20 Indeed, you are our glory and joy
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How many heads are we going to have after the resurrection. Notice that the crown is promised to ALL WHO LOVE GOD or ALL WHO LOVE HIS APPEARING. It is the same crown with different names and it is given to all Christians.
The crown is promised to those who love God. What true Christian does not love God? Or are people who don’t love God saved?

God Bless,
Michael
 
myfavoritmartin said:
gal3:21
21Is the law, therefore, opposed to the promises of God? Absolutely not! For if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come by the law.
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What is your point? We have already stated that Catholics would agree with this statement…why do you continue to repeat this as if it were in dispute?

This verse does nothing to extricate you from the problem posed by the clear teaching of James.

Additionally, you have yet to explain how John 14:12 accomplishes anything to advance your position.

I also asked you to list what “Catholic works” you find so objectionable.
 
Do you believe, myfavoriteman, that Christians are under the Law of Christ, not under the Law of Moses?

God Bless,
Michael
 
myfavoritmartin said:
gal3:21
21Is the law, therefore, opposed to the promises of God? Absolutely not! For if a law had been given that could impart life, then righteousness would certainly have come by the law.
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Martin, you are not being consistent. You cited the guy who makes the differentiation between works of the law and the works James talks about. Yet, you continue to cite passages that speak of “works of the law” to make your point against Catholics. Again, we do not believe the “law” justifies us.
 
mikeledes said:
Do you believe, myfavoriteman, that Christians are under the Law of Christ, not under the Law of Moses?

God Bless,
Michael
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Add to this question, myfavoritemartin, the two I asked you earlier, which you did not answer.

“You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.”
  1. Is the faith referred to in this verse genuine faith?
  2. Is this verse about justification? If not, what does James mean by using the word “justified”?
God bless,
Michael
 
Myfavoritemartin, why is it when the rich man asks Jesus “what good thing shall I do that i may have eternal life,”, Jesus answers "But if you want to enter into life, KEEP THE COMMANDMENTS? Why didn’t He simply say, have faith and your faith will save you? Who can explain and understand the Gospel message better than Christ Himself? Moreover, why is it that Romans 2:6 says that God will render “each one according to their deeds”, and then it says in verse 7 that God will give eternal life to "those who by patient continuance in doing good seek for glory, honor and immortality? Please address these verses.

God Bless,
Michael
 
In order to truly understand the Catholic Church’s teaching on jusrtification and salvation, we really need to understand the nature of a gift. First of all, a gift is something that is freely given, not a payment for something. I think we all agree on that . However, just because a gift is something that is freely given does not mean that it does not come with conditions that have to be met in order not to lose it. If a person gives me a dog as a gift, that does not mean that I am free from responsibilities and obligations. I have to feed the dog, take it to the vet, take it for walks, etc. After accepting the gift, I can chose not to do any of these things or I can do it for a couple of months, get tired, and just stop. But what will happen? I will lose my gift through death and I’ll have a real sanitation problem in my house.

Or what if I give money as a gift to someone to buy gasoline for their car because I know they can’t afford it and their livelihood depends on their car. The person receives the money, but now it is his reponsibilty to purchase the gasoline. If he has gasoline in his tank, it is now his responsibilty and obligation to drive the car.

The fact that those who received the gift have to do something in order to keep the gift alive and/or bear fruit does not in anyway change its status as a gift. Since it was freely given and accepted, it will always have its status as a gift.

Similarly, God offers us the gift of righteousness through Christ. Once we accept this gift through faith, we now have the responsility, the obligation, to conform our lives to this gift. If we do not do so, or we cease doing so later in life, then we risk losing the gift forever (eternal damnation). How do we conform our lives to this gift? BY FAITH WORKING THROUGH LOVE What does that mean? Like I said time and time again, by keeping the commandments and doing good to others. That is why Christ emphasizes that in order to abide (i.e. remain) in Him, we have to follow his commandments. If justification meant that we would always automatically remain in Christ, then there would be no need for him to that you need keep the commandments (a work) in order to remain in Him. He would simply say, “If you want to remain in me, just have faith.” Or, “if you have faith, you will always remain in me.” And yet, he emphasizes the importance of keeping the commandments in realtion to remaining in him and eternal life. This does not make sense if justification through faith guarantess that you will always remain in Christ. Then why even bother talking about keeping the commandments in order to remain in Him? I thought that was done by faith alone?

God Bless,
Michael
 
What is the Book of Life? The book of life contains the names of the righteous of the Old and New Testaments:

Revelation 20:15

“And if anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.”

Only those justified by grace can be in this book. Is there a possibility that someone’s name can be erased? Revelation 3:5 raises that possibilty:

“He who OVERCOMES will thus be clothed in white garments and I will not erase his name from the book of life…”

So the strong implication is that the Christian that does not overcome (i.e. endure to the end) will have his/her name erased from the book of life. This fits with the biblical fact that only those who endure to the end will be saved. Why bring up the possibility of erasure from the book of life if those who are justified are eternally secure? Eternal security automatically means that there will be no erasure from the book of life. Now compare this verse with Exodus 32:32-33:

“But now, if you will, forgive their sin - and if not, please blot me out of the book which you have written!” The Lord said to Moses, “Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot out of my book.”

You might say this is from the Old Testament. So was the justification of Abraham by faith. Or did God have two standards for determining who would be in the Book of Life? Only the justified can be in the Book of Life. If a justified person does not persevere to the end by dying in sin, he/she shall be erased from the Book of Life and will suffer eternal damnation. This hearkens back to John 15 and its related passages (Romans 11:21-22, 1 Corinthians 9:27, Revelation 22:19).

God Bless,
Michael
 
The Catholic Church does not teach that good works are the “cause of justification”. Good works are the fruit of justification. Practicing righteousness does not make a person rigfhteous before God nor is being righteous the sum total of our righteous acts. Rather, a person FREELY made righteous by performs righteous acts. Righteous acts that please acts that please God can only flow out of a heart that has been freely regenerated by God:

Ezekiel 36:26
“Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart fo stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. I will put My Spirit within you and CAUSE YOU to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe my ordinances.”

Luke 6:45
“The good man out of the good treasure of his heart brings forth what is good…”

1 John 2:28
“If you know He is righteous, you know that everyone who practices righteousness is born of Him.”

God’s free gift of righteousness must PRECEDE any righteous act we must perform.

Therefore, the origin of our righteous acts DOES NOT lie in the human will, but in the Holy Spirit freely given at justification.

Galatians 5:22-23
“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindmess, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control, against such things there is no law… If welive by the Spirit, let us also walk by the Spirit.”

To be continued…
 
Allow me to try to state my stand a little clearer; we Protestants reject the idea that works formed by the power of the Holy Spirit in us can obtain the grace of justification.
Although the RCC’s position on good works and pervaded grace is masqueraded with the appearance of holiness, one may distinguish that it is an evil doctrine (IMO) devised to lead men astray from the objective of the Gospel.
RCC doctrines instruct men to trust in God’s work in them. How do you make a distinction between Gods work and mans? RCC theology leads you actually to be contingent or rely upon your own works.
Knowing the wickedness of man’s nature, you realize that the **good works of the holiest men are stained by the irreverence of human nature. **
(Eccl. 7:20) “For there is not a just man on earth who does good and does not sin”.
(Isa 64:6)“But we are all like an unclean thing, and all our righteousness are like filthy rags”
(1 Joh1:8). “If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us”
 
mikeledes said:
The Catholic Church does not teach that good works are the “cause of justification”. Good works are the fruit of justification. Practicing righteousness does not make a person rigfhteous before God nor is being righteous the sum total of our righteous acts. Rather, a person FREELY made righteous by performs righteous acts. Righteous acts that please acts that please God can only flow out of a heart that has been freely regenerated by God:
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Absolutely correct! As I posted in post 93: “Our works are the fruit of “grace” which comes through faith, but they are NECESSARY fruits.” Good job Mike! Keep up the good work. 👍
 
myfavoritmartin said:
Allow me to try to state my stand a little clearer; we Protestants reject the idea that works formed by the power of the Holy Spirit in us can obtain the grace of justification.
Although the RCC’s position on good works and pervaded grace is masqueraded with the appearance of holiness, one may distinguish that it is an evil doctrine (IMO) devised to lead men astray from the objective of the Gospel.
RCC doctrines instruct men to trust in God’s work in them. How do you make a distinction between Gods work and mans? RCC theology leads you actually to be contingent or rely upon your own works.
Knowing the wickedness of man’s nature, you realize that the **good works of the holiest men are stained by the irreverence of human nature. **
(Eccl. 7:20) “For there is not a just man on earth who does good and does not sin”.
(Isa 64:6)“But we are all like an unclean thing, and all our righteousness are like filthy rags”
(1 Joh1:8). “If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us”
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We place our trust in God by walking in the Spirit and that produces the good works.

God Bless,
Michael
 
Part 2

All of the merits of the justified are the work of the Holy Spirit. So when God rewards the justified, He is crowning His own work. Hence the justified cannot glory in their works, boast before God, or demand a reward as payment.

Romans 11:18
“but if you are arrogant, remember that it is not you who supports the root, but the root supports you.”

John 15:4
“… As the branch cannot bear fruit unless it abides in the vine, so neither can you unless you abide in Me.”

Any reward the Father has promised is a FREE ACT of a SOVEREIGN God, not the obligatory payment of a debt owed. It is within this context that Catholic teaching on merit must be understood. God has freely given eternal life in the present age to those who are “in Christ (All the Bible verses you keep referring to),” and has freely promised eternal life in the age to come to those “in Christ” who persevere in faith working through love to the end:

Revelation 21:7
“He who OVERCOMES will inherit these things and I will be his God and he will be my son.”

1 Timothy 6:18-19
“Instruct them to to good, to be rich in good works, to be generaous and ready to share, storing up for themselves a good foundation for the FUTURE, SO THAT they make TAKE HOLD of that which is LIFE INDEED.”

Luke 18:28
"… Truly I say to you, there is no one who has left house or wife or brothers or parents or children (i.e. all works), for the sake of the Kingdom of God, who will not receive many much at this time and IN THE AGE TO COME, ETERNAL LIFE.

To be continued…
 
myfavoritmartin said:
Allow me to try to state my stand a little clearer; we Protestants reject the idea that works formed by the power of the Holy Spirit in us can obtain the grace of justification.
Although the RCC’s position on good works and pervaded grace is masqueraded with the appearance of holiness, one may distinguish that it is an evil doctrine (IMO) devised to lead men astray from the objective of the Gospel.
RCC doctrines instruct men to trust in God’s work in them. How do you make a distinction between Gods work and mans? RCC theology leads you actually to be contingent or rely upon your own works.
Knowing the wickedness of man’s nature, you realize that the **good works of the holiest men are stained by the irreverence of human nature. **
(Eccl. 7:20) “For there is not a just man on earth who does good and does not sin”.
(Isa 64:6)“But we are all like an unclean thing, and all our righteousness are like filthy rags”
(1 Joh1:8). “If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us”
Click to expand...
This is such a confused post. How do you distinguish between man’s work and God’s work? How about God’s work is the “fruit of sanctifying grace” and man’s work is done apart from this grace? It really is simple. And for the record, WE don’t have to be able to tell the difference. God alone is our judge. Therefore, He will make that judgement, not us.

Also remember, what God declares to be righteous, must indeed be righteous. It is not of our own, but of Him that this occurs (as you rightly point out as the difference between infusion vs. the heretical imputation of righteousness). The verses you cite in no way disprove this. For example, Ecclesiastes says there “is not A just man.” Does that include Jesus? Does this mean he was not just? Of course not! So, we have already established one exception. Could there be more? Absolutely! As a Catholic would say, we are not righteous prior to our justification, but are made righteous by God. Thus, Ecclesiastes makes the point that there is not one just man based on his own merit, but rather only by the grace of God (or in Christ’s case, His own nature).

Besides that, by posting this, you have essentially stated that you cannot refute the previous posts addressed to you. Instead, you will merely continue to re-assert your opinion, and man made tradition, as if it were the truth. The problem is, the verses you have used have been answered. The verses posed to you, remain looming over your head. Are you willing to humble yourself and be open? Remember, God gives people over to the hardness of their heart. Don’t let that be the case here. You obviously have much to love for God to let pride get in the way, otherwise you wouldn’t be here. I’ll pray for you. Pray for me, PLEASE! God bless! 🙂
 
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