Not By Faith Alone

[Linkowski]

Hello,

I wanted to bring more insight back with regard to my postings, particulary to the point of perseverenace. Many of you come back and speak of those who were illustrated for us in Hebrews 10…

Heb 10:26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries…
…29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

Or Hebrews 6…

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

And there is also John 15 and 2 Peter 20-22 as well as others. What you are saying is that these people were born of God and lost it. Well, I spoke with my favorite “once saved always saved” scripture, 1 John 5:4

1Jo 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

This teaches that once a person is born again, they are saved forever. But I will show you even more clearly now that these people were not saved. Scriptures/passages to support…

James 1:21 Wherefore lay apart all filthiness and superfluity of naughtiness, and receive with meekness the engrafted word, which is able to save your souls.
In the Hebrews 6 passage there is the thought of enlightmentment - that had the word penetrated into the heart but the heart was not right. That is why James says to repent.

We have this passage…which lines up with these perfectly…

Lu 13:6 He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none.
7 Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground?
8 And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it:
9 And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down.

The word was planted, God’s graces were allowed to work on it a little longer but it never bore fruit. Never saved - the word was implanted but never born again.

Mt 21:19 And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away.
20 And when the disciples saw it, they marvelled, saying, How soon is the fig tree withered away!

Reminds us of the parable of the sower…

Lu 8:11 Now the parable is this: The seed is the word of God.
12 Those by the way side are they that hear; then cometh the devil, and taketh away the word out of their hearts, lest they should believe and be saved.
13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
14 And that which fell among thorns are they, which, when they have heard, go forth, and are choked with cares and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to perfection.
15 But that on the good ground are they, which in an honest and good heart, having heard the word, keep it, and bring forth fruit with patience.

For the one who was born - the one with a repentant heart turning away from the slavemaster of sin to the Lord Jesus Christ as the Lord of their live…the gospel becomes the power of God and they are born again…never to lose their salvation based on God’s promises. The others either had hard hearts where the word did not penetrate or it penetrated into soils that were not proper (not repentant and submitted to the Lordship of Christ).

These people are those who die off in the wilderness…that never entered the promised land…

Heb 4:1 Let us therefore fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you should seem to come short of it.
2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.
3 For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I have sworn in my wrath, if they shall enter into my rest: although the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

The word was implanted but they were never saved. But once saved - aways saved is the teaching of 1 John 5:4 and the many other scriptures that accompany it.

I hope this helps.

Merry Christmas

Living faith works - faith that is not dependant on works but on the finished work of Christ

 

[Randy_Carson]

So, Linkowski, which are you?

One of those who has TRUE saving faith that perseveres to the end or one who will fall away at some point in the future?

How can you be sure?

 

[Linkowski]

This is the question. Am I born of God? Well…the scriptures out of first John that I presented are a good litmus test to help us to “know that we have eternal life” (1 John 5:13)…to know that you are one of the elect. Do you love the brethren?? Do you practice righteousness?? Do you confess Christ?? Have you been baptized?? Do you love God’s law and hate sin?? Do you have a longing for the Father, which comes by the Holy Spirit crying Abba, Father???

Practicing of righteousness…
1 John 2:29…29 If you know that He is righteous, you know that everyone also who practices righteousness is born of Him.

Loves the brethren…
1 John 3:14…14 We know that we have passed out of death into life, because we love the brethren. He who does not love abides in death.

Hates sin and does not practice it…
1 John 3:9…9 No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

Loves…
1 John 4:7…7 Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God; and everyone who loves is born of God and knows God.

Confesses…
1 John 4:15…15 Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God.

Believes on Christ…
1 John 5:1…1 Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and whoever loves the Father loves the child born of Him.

Perseveres…
1 John 5:4…4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world–our faith.

Keeps commandments…
1 John 2:3…3 By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments.

By the way, after John says all of the things he writes…

1 John 5:13…13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

Not lustful…
Galatians 5:24 NAS95 24 Now those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.

Walk in the Spirit…
Romans 8:4 NAS95 4 so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.
Romans 8:9…9 However, you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. But if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Him.

Perform works…
John 14:12…12 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do, he will do also; and greater works than these he will do; because I go to the Father.

We then examine ourselves thereby…

2 Corinthians 13:5…5 Test yourselves to see if you are in the faith; examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you–unless indeed you fail the test?
Hebrews 3:12…12 Take care, brethren, that there not be in any one of you an evil, unbelieving heart that falls away from the living God.
1 Corinthians 11:28…28 But a man must examine himself, and in so doing he is to eat of the bread and drink of the cup.

Does God want His children to know whether or not they are born of Him? Or does he want us to sit and guess? He gives that condition in John 3:3:

John 3:3…3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

1 Corinthians 6:19-20 NAS95 19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit who is in you, whom you have from God, and that you are not your own? 20 For you have been bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body.
Psalms 100:3 NAS95 3 Know that the LORD Himself is God; It is He who has made us, and not we ourselves; We are His people and the sheep of His pasture.
John 10:27-29 NAS95 27 "My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. 29 "My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
2 Corinthians 6:16-18 NAS95 16 Or what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; just as God said, "I WILL DWELL IN THEM AND WALK AMONG THEM; AND I WILL BE THEIR GOD, AND THEY SHALL BE MY PEOPLE. 17 “Therefore, COME OUT FROM THEIR MIDST AND BE SEPARATE,” says the Lord. "AND DO NOT TOUCH WHAT IS UNCLEAN; And I will welcome you. 18 “And I will be a father to you, And you shall be sons and daughters to Me,” Says the Lord Almighty.

Saved by a faith that works…Born of God, passed from death unto life. But continually examining myself and working for Him with great love and joy because He first loved me.

 

[Randy_Carson]

Yes, but if you don’t persevere till the end, then all this will be for nought, correct?

 

[djrakowski]

This is the question. Am I born of God? Well…the scriptures out of first John that I presented are a good litmus test to help us to “know that we have eternal life” (1 John 5:13)…to know that you are one of the elect. Do you love the brethren?? Do you practice righteousness?? Do you confess Christ?? Have you been baptized?? Do you love God’s law and hate sin?? Do you have a longing for the Father, which comes by the Holy Spirit crying Abba, Father???

Fine, Craig, that works as a self-assessment at this moment in time, but you didn’t answer Mr. Carson’s question. You can only evaluate how you’re living now, whether you’re in the will of Christ momentarily. How do you know you will continue to be in the will of Christ?

There are plenty of people who live as you described - they love the brethren, practice righteousness, confess Christ, have been baptized, love God’s law, hate sin and long for the Father. You would call them ‘saved.’ But not all of them continue doing those things, and as soon as they stop dong them, you would say they were never saved. That person could just as easily be you, Craig. How do you know it won’t happen to you when it has happened to so many others who seemed to evidence the life of faith you describe?

It seems that eternal security isn’t all that secure after all.

(by the way, excellent questions, Randy!)

 

[Linkowski]

I have addressed this before. Once saved always saved is not the same as assurance of salvation. It is not logical to say that these are the same.

There are plenty of passages in the bible that speak of knowing that we have eternal life. But as I mentioned before, there are also passages that call for us to examine ourselves and I do not take these lightly.

I will not share a testimony with you but can tell you that I was born again at a later age when I left the Catholic Church. I went from trusting in my own works for my salvation and put my faith fully in Christ and His work on the cross for my salvation. What happened after that was the work of God - the miracle of salvation that is still being accomplished through the process of sanctification. Without going into detail I will say this…

You would think that a person that believes that they must merit heaven through good works would be working hard. But, after the day that I realized God’s grace apart from works through the Word of God, I sprouted into something wonderful (still enclosed in this wicked sinful body) and am doing 1,000 times more good works (empowered by God’s grace, love, and His Holy Spirit) than when I thought I had to, in some way, merit salvation. Doesn’t make sense, but the truth is…Christ is the way to Holiness…Holiness is not the way to Christ.

Glory to God - for this unspeakable gift.
I was spiritually blind but now see, I was spiritually deaf but now hear, I was spiritually mute but now speak, I was spiritually dead but now alive, I was spiritually lame but now walk. Praise God!!

Romans 8:35-39 KJV 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? 36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. 37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. 38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, 39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[Linkowski]

By the way, Dan - I still owe you my testimony through e-mail.


God Bless, and Merry Christmas

 

[djrakowski]

I have addressed this before. Once saved always saved is not the same as assurance of salvation. It is not logical to say that these are the same.

What does ‘once-saved-always-saved’ mean if not the assurance of salvation? You believe that you’re saved, and you can do nothing to lose it. That sounds like you believe you’re assured of salvation. You’re making no sense.

When I was an evangelical, I believed in ‘once-saved-always-saved,’ and my pastor preached it. It was always called eternal security, or assurance of salvation. I was taught conflicting things from the pulpit - that if I were truly born again, I wouldn’t commit serious sin (without a definition of what constitutes serious sin), but I was constantly told that I needed to repent of my sins. Which was it - I was saved, therefore sinless, or I was saved and nothing could take it away, but yet I still had to repent for my sins.

I believed I was saved, and then things would happen in my life to make me doubt what I had previously believed. Sometimes, I fell into the attitude that, if I was saved, then God had already forgiven all the sins I was committing and would commit in the future, so I didn’t need to confess them. After all, what good is confession of sins if it has no effect on salvation that I had already secured when I committed myself to Christ?

Catholicism DOES NOT TEACH THAT YOU CAN WORK YOUR WAY INTO HEAVEN! It teaches that you evidence sincere faith by choosing to submit yourself to the will of God, and to accept what he commands. When you believed that as a Catholic, you were WRONG, and whoever taught that was the case, was also WRONG.

If good works are automatic upon receiving Christ as personal Lord and Savior, then why does Jesus command us to obey? Why would he command us to do something that would come naturally in your theology?

I can say, without a doubt, that my conversion to Catholicism has made me more mindful of living with Jesus as my Lord and Savior all day and every day. I know that my actions have consequences, and am more mindful of the things I do and say, and have learned to guard my thought life more carefully.

Your testimony is nice, but you’re inaccurately representing Catholicism if you claim that the Catholic Church taught yoo how to earn your way into heaven.

Craig, do you believe that the Catholic Church is even a legitimate Christian church? Do you believe that there are Christians in the Catholic Church in spite of her teachings, or because of them? Do I have to apostasize from the Catholic Church to be a true Christian?

 

[Linkowski]

For once saved always saved…you must be saved in this case.
For assurance of salvation…You could be saved or not saved…some have “assurance” (so-to-speak) and are not saved and some have assurance that are saved. This makes perfect logic. And those who are truly saved are always saved according to scripture. Just because your Pastor said they were the same thing does not mean they are the same thing. They are clearly not the same.

You question my assurance…You deny the ministry of the Holy Spirit if you get rid of assurance.

Romans 8:16 KJV 16 The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:

1 John 4:13 KJV 13 Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.

ARE YOU THROWING OUT THOSE SCRIPTURES?
**
God saved me, Dan. All glory goes to Him.**

If you trust in Christ AND works for your salvation…you do not trust Christ. All of our good works flow from living faith. If they do not, then they are not pleasing to God. Faith is the root and the works are the fruit.

I sum it up in this saying…We are saved through faith THAT works…not faith AND works. But, in order to have faith THAT works, you need to get rid of your AND so that you can get the THAT.

ALSO…

Continued repentance and seeking of regularly forgiveness is for the purpose of keeping a close relationship with the Father and have one on one communion with Him. We must come to him and put off our sandles (dirty feet) as we come into the Most Holy Place by the blood of our High Priest, Jesus Christ. We need foot washings regularly but are clean every whit (justfied) - but as we are being sanctifiied, he is purifying us and part of that purification is going to Him for forgiveness.

1 John 2:1 KJV 1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

John 13:10 NAS95 10 Jesus *said to him, “He who has bathed needs only to wash his feet, but is completely clean; and you are clean, but not all of you.”

 

[Odell]

There are plenty of passages in the bible that speak of knowing that we have eternal life. But as I mentioned before, there are also passages that call for us to examine ourselves and I do not take these lightly.

neither do Catholics

I will not share a testimony with you but can tell you that I was born again at a later age when I left the Catholic Church. I went from trusting in my own works for my salvation and put my faith fully in Christ and His work on the cross for my salvation.

Sorry Im not buying that for a min. Are you telling us that as a Catholic you only trusted in yourself in your works and nothing else? I bet if you look back deeply that was not the case. Ill call you out on this but your lying, God know it too. I have never heard the sermon you have to trust in your own works for your salvation and only put your faith partially in Christ and the work on the cross. There would be no need for a crusifix in the Church it would contradict the sermon. Have you heard this sermon at mass?

the truth is…Christ is the way to Holiness…Holiness is not the way to Christ.

Learn something every day on these forums. You know you cant prove your self right when you preach something Catholic are one with you on.

Catholicism DOES NOT TEACH THAT YOU CAN WORK YOUR WAY INTO HEAVEN! It teaches that you evidence sincere faith by choosing to submit yourself to the will of God, and to accept what he commands

I would really like to know his problem with this.

Kowski
When you believed that as a Catholic, you were WRONG, and whoever taught that was the case, was also WRONG.

I dont think he ever belived that as a Catholic. I think he knew very little of what we teach it is evedent by his postings. Why did he leave when he dont even know what he left?

Kowski
If good works are automatic upon receiving Christ as personal Lord and Savior, then why does Jesus command us to obey? Why would he command us to do something that would come naturally in your theology?

Good question.
.

posted by Kowski
Your testimony is nice, but you’re inaccurately representing Catholicism if you claim that the Catholic Church taught yoo how to earn your way into heaven.

yet he will continue to bare false witness

Linkowski
You question my assurance…You deny the ministry of the Holy Spirit if you get rid of assurance.

(1 Cor 9:27) “No, **I **drive my body and train it, for fear that, after having preached to others, I myself should be disqualified.”

sounds to me you are more assured that Paul

Paul tells people like you in (1Cor 10:11-12)
“Therefore whoever thinks he is standing secure take care not to fall.”

ARE YOU THROWING OUT THOSE SCRIPTURES?
**
God saved me, Linkowski. All glory goes to Him.**

 

[Linkowski]

I will go ahead and forgive you for your false accusations.

I was born again after leaving the Catholic Church…by the power of the Word of God - the gospel of Christ. I was justified by faith, born of God, passed from death unto life…

1 Peter 1:23 KJV 23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
Luke 8:5 KJV 5 A sower went out to sow his seed…
John 15:3 KJV 3 Now ye are clean **through the word **which I have spoken unto you.
Psalms 119:9 Wherewithal shall a young man cleanse his way? by taking heed thereto according to thy word.

And once saved - always saved…

Hebrews 3:6 NAS95 6 but Christ was faithful as a Son over His house–whose house we are, if we hold fast our confidence and the boast of our hope firm until the end.

Hebrews 3:14 NAS95 14 For **we have become **partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end,

John 8:31 NAS95 31 So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, "If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine;

What these scriptures say is that - if we are in Christ/**have become **partakers with Christ, we will persevere. Notice - it does not say that we will become IF…

1 John 5:4 NAS95 4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world–our faith.

Yes, we are commanded to be certain of our election and we are commanded to keep the faith/examine ourselves (which I have explained that I do) but then God prophetically speaks and says that those who have been born of God **will overcome **and persevere.

Trust Christ alone today for your salvation.

I will pray for you.

 

[water]

And once saved - always saved…

are you sure once saved, always saved?

here is your answer:

Hebrews 3:14 NAS95 14 For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end,

How do you hold fast to it? Once saved, it does not mean you will be saved for sure. – Faith without works is dead, my friend. Doesn’t it say enough in the Bible???

I pray that you will some day return to the Truth church again.

 

[Randy_Carson]

I will go ahead and forgive you for your false accusations.

I was born again after leaving the Catholic Church…by the power of the Word of God - the gospel of Christ. I was justified by faith, born of God, passed from death unto life…

1 Peter 1:23 KJV 23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.
Luke 8:5 KJV 5 A sower went out to sow his seed…
John 15:3 KJV 3 Now ye are clean **through the word **which I have spoken unto you.
Psalms 119:9 Wherewithal shall a young man cleanse his way? by taking heed thereto according to thy word.

And once saved - always saved…

Hebrews 3:6 NAS95 6 but Christ was faithful as a Son over His house–whose house we are, if we hold fast our confidence and the boast of our hope firm until the end.

Hebrews 3:14 NAS95 14 For **we have become **partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end,

John 8:31 NAS95 31 So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, "If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine;

What these scriptures say is that - if we are in Christ/**have become **partakers with Christ, we will persevere. Notice - it does not say that we will become IF…

1 John 5:4 NAS95 4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world–our faith.

Yes, we are commanded to be certain of our election and we are commanded to keep the faith/examine ourselves (which I have explained that I do) but then God prophetically speaks and says that those who have been born of God **will overcome **and persevere.

Trust Christ alone today for your salvation.

I will pray for you.

Thanks.

But you might want to pray about a few verses instead.

“If you hold to my teaching, you are really my disciples. Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free.” (John 8:31)

If, then. What happens **if not? **If you don’t manage to hold on to his teaching, then you are not really his disciple and you will not know the truth and the truth will not set you free.

Salvation as a FUTURE event for the JUSTIFIED:

“Since, therefore, we are now justified by his blood, much more shall we be saved by him from the wrath of God. For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, now that we are reconciled, shall we be saved by his life” (Rom. 5:9-10).

Salvation is getting closer, but not yet here:

“Besides this you know what hour it is, how it is full time now for you to wake from sleep. For salvation is nearer to us now than when we first believed” (Rom. 13:11).

Salvation through the fire of Purgatory (fire, Link, fire)

“If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss, though he himself will be saved, but only as through fire” (1 Cor. 3:15).

Paul prays that a fallen believer (already saved) might still be saved from Mortal Sin:

“[Y]ou are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus” (1 Cor. 5:5).

+++

We shall pray that God may deliver you from the false teachings of a theological system that is incomplete, insufficient and incoherent.

 

[Linkowski]

You are reading the scripture wrong…I tried to explain it the best that I can…

Hebrews 3:14 NAS95 14 For we have become partakers of Christ, if we hold fast the beginning of our assurance firm until the end,

Please note the past tense…have become. Not will become, have become. It is at justification that we are made to be in Christ. This is the idea of passing from death to life…

John 5:24 NAS95 24 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.

Your references to have been saved, are being saved, and will be saved refer to 1) justification…

Hebrews 10:14 KJV 14 For by one offering he **hath perfected for ever **them that are sanctified.

2) Sanctification…
2 Corinthians 3:18 NAS95 18 But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, ****are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.

**3) **Glorification…
1 John 3:2 NAS95 2 Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, **we will **be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is.

But, once justified…we HAVE eternal life which is forever by its definition and is irrevocable. The repentant faith is not even of the believer but a gift of God…

Romans 11:29 NAS95 29 for the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.

1 John 5:4 NAS95 4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world–our faith.

Once saved always saved.

Praying for you to see the truth…

We are saved through faith THAT works…not faith AND works. But, in order to have faith THAT works, you need to get rid of your AND so that you can get the THAT. Justification leads to sanctification and culminates in our blessed glorfication.

 

[Linkowski]

are you sure once saved, always saved?

How do you hold fast to it? Once saved, it does not mean you will be saved for sure. – Faith without works is dead, my friend. Doesn’t it say enough in the Bible???

I pray that you will some day return to the Truth church again.

Faith without works is dead…and “once saved always saved” are not the same thing but they are.

Dead faith does not save. You must receive Chirst as Lord before receving Him as Savior which is documented in the parable of the sower…

Luke 8:11-15 NAS95 11 "Now the parable is this: the seed is the word of God. 12 "Those beside the road are those who have heard; then the devil comes and takes away the word from their heart, so that they will not believe and be saved. 13 "Those on the rocky soil are those who, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no firm root; they believe for a while, and in time of temptation fall away. 14 "The seed which fell among the thorns, these are the ones who have heard, and as they go on their way they are choked with worries and riches and pleasures of this life, and bring no fruit to maturity. 15 "But the seed in the good soil, these are the ones who have heard the word in an honest and good heart, and hold it fast, and bear fruit with perseverance.

There are people that have been enlightened but, then, at a later date fall away. These are people that were not saved. James exhorts this group of people in James 1:21:

James 1:21 NAS95 21 Therefore, putting aside all filthiness and all that remains of wickedness, in humility receive the word implanted, which is able to save your souls.

1 John 2:19 NAS95 19 They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us.

True faith works…a faith that repents, emptying itself of human merit and relying solely upon Christ and Him alone for our salvation. Only then can you truly do the works of God…

John 6:28-29 NAS95 28 Therefore they said to Him, “What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?” 29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”

John 14:12 NAS95 12 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do, he will do also; and greater works than these he will do; because I go to the Father.

And once saved always saved…

1 John 5:4 NAS95 4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world; and this is the victory that has overcome the world–our faith.

We are saved through faith THAT works…not faith AND works. But, in order to have faith THAT works, you need to get rid of your AND so that you can get the THAT.

I cannot go back to a church that teaches one can lose their salvation…this type of teaching is not scriptural as I have showed you.

 

[TriLogic]

We I consider post # 14, I believe that love is first. It is first in a cardinal sense and not in a ordinal sense. I borrowed the idea of cardinal and ordinal sense from Saints Basil and Augustine. They used it on the One Day of creation and not the first day of creation. One Day is cardinal. First day is ordinal.

Love is the greatest. Faith is ordered by His love in our heart.

Or, love is superior and in control of faith.

Hmmm. Consider Hebrews 11:6 which states “But without faith it is impossible to please God. For he that cometh to God, must believe that he is, and is a rewarder to them that seek him.”

I’d say that without faith there is no charity, and certainly no hope. Who can hope in salvation that does not first believe? Does not love please God? How then can anyone posess love who does not first have faith?

 

[Linkowski]

Excellent TriLogic…

True love that even loves its enemies cannot come about without the transformation that takes place at the new birth…by the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit.

Whatever is not of faith is sin.

God Bless and Merry Christmas

 

[water]

2 Thess 2:15: hold fast to traditions, whether oral or by letter

Rom 10:17 Faith comes from what is heard.

1 Cor 10:11:12 Those thinking they are secure, may fall

Jam 2:24: a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

2 Thess 2:15:commands them to keep traditions

These are enough for me to see Protestant’s interpretation of the Bible is flaw and their belief is half truth.

Thank God for allowing me to see your Truth of Catholic.

 

[Linkowski]

2 Thess 2:15: hold fast to traditions, whether oral or by letter

Rom 10:17 Faith comes from what is heard.

1 Cor 10:11:12 Those thinking they are secure, may fall

Jam 2:24: a man is justified by works and not by faith alone.

2 Thess 2:15:commands them to keep traditions

These are enough for me to see Protestant’s interpretation of the Bible is flaw and their belief is half truth.

Thank God for allowing me to see your Truth of Catholic.

Faith comes through hearing the gospel, not tradition…

Romans 10:15-17 KJV 15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, **How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things! **16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report? 17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Romans 1:16 KJV 16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
1 Corinthians 15:1-2 KJV 1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2 By which also ye are saved…

Yes…there are those that say they are born again and are not…Christ said himself…

Matthew 7:21-23 KJV 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

We are to examine ourselves…
2 Corinthians 13:5 KJV 5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

Hebrews 3:12 KJV 12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.

We are saved by faith alone but not by faith that is alone. The body without the spririt is dead…so faith without works is dead. We are not saved by faith and works…but by faith that works…

Galatians 5:6 KJV 6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

We are saved through faith THAT works…not faith AND works. But, in order to have faith THAT works, you need to get rid of your AND so that you can get the THAT.

You must empty yourself of all want of mertiing heaven and put your faith in Christ alone for salvation. Holiness is not the way to Christ, Christ is the way to holiness.

May God Show You,

Craig L.

 

[djrakowski]

Craig, if you insist on holding to the view of “once-saved-always-saved,” and nothing has convinced you, and nothing will convince you, then at least be honest and remove the bit about being willing to change to Catholic.