Not Convinced

[cora_cobb]

I know that my faith has been completed and is stronger that ever before. I attend Mass and hear the word, I recieve the Body and Blood of Jesus Christ and know that it is right.

I don’t know how to explain it to someone who doesn’t understand the peace one can experience once they have found where they belong. I have also struggled with questions like not convinced and now know that truth is found everywhere. I’ve had to accept some things and as a result the answere came to me when God wanted me to have it.

Cora

 

[brycelaliberte]

Hmmm…I don’t see how evolution is related to the thread topic…


The scriptures are in agreement that the various universes were created.

The Srimad Bhagavata Mahapurana goes into that subject in great detail.

Where is the conflict between this view and the Catholic view?

Doesn’t Catholicism say that the univerce(s) was/were created?

As stated before, there can be truth in other religions; just that Catholicism has the full truth. (Assuming in the word universes, heaven and earth) As far as I can see, there is no conflict between Catholics and those who say the universe was created; as to how, why, or what, that may differ for obvious reasons.

 

[Lion_of_Narnia]

If you take a Western, linear approach to History…

I thought Catholics didn’t agree with modern science?

Agree when it supports your conclusions, disagree when it doesn’t.

And besides - who wrote the supposed “history” you’re claiming is the “truth?”

Ahhh!!! WESTERN (Euro-American CHRISTIAN) people who are COMMITTED to DESTROYING any other religion other than Christianity!!!

Seems rather suspect to me!!!

The Muslims came into Bharatavarsha intent on destroying Vedic culture, the British came into Bharatavarsha intent on destroying Vedic culture and modern consumer culture seems intent on destroying Vedic culture. But that’s ok!

God has promised (and shown) that he will incarnate again and again to renew and refresh the Eternal Truth.

The Vedic timeframe is MUCH vaster than anything western science of religion or philosophy has been able to concieve of.

I’m sorry you still insist on placing the unlimited God into your own limited frame of reference.

A God of Infinite power is not a God of contradiction. To say otherwise is to speak semantic nonsense–statments with no meaning-- or in communications theory jargon: noise.

God either IS a person (actually three persons) who is utterly distinct from creation (everything else that is not the uncreated Creator), or he is not. To say he is both is meaningless noise–an assertion you would not waste one moment in any application in the “real world” (oh yeah, Hinduism (and Buddhism) has to claim the ‘real world’ is maya (illusion) so they can swallow that huge pill.

Most Catholics have no problems with science (not the materialistic philosophy of “scientism”). Despite his issues, Galileo remained a faithfull Catholic. Then there’s Copernicus, Blaise Pascal, Louis Pastuer, etc… The modern scientific method was first born in Europe out of the CATHOLIC tradition of Scholasticism–that posited the Universe is real and predicatable and operates under laws that God mantains–and unlike Islam, God will NOT change the rules. Science could and did arise under such conditions–it did NOT arise in the East or is it likely it ever could have.

Hinduism HAS to decry history because History dosnt support It. History DOES support Christianity. Hinduism LOVES to play with numbers (vastness), but throws those numbers around with wild abandon–hence the multi-million man armies of the Mahabarata

Well, in number crunching you did invent “Zero”–that is so much nicer than doing long division with roman numerals

 

[Neil_LA]

How did you come across Hinduism, the site you gave does not seem to espouse the mainstream/traditional Hinduism (or what little I have learned of it.

'Hinduism" is a misnomer. The vedic religion is actually called Sanatana Dharma - Eternal truth.

Sanatana Dharma is vast and all encompasing…there is no such thing as “mainstream” Hinduism.

Please clarify what you mean and I will gladly help.

I believe that the Lord God lead me to His eternal truth. God has many forms and abodes, they are all absolute. A devotee of whichever form of God will go to God’s abode in that form. Devotees of Jesus will go to the “Heavenly Jerusalem.”

After careful investigation into various religious paths, I have been lead by God to realize that the most blissful, beautiful, sweet and loving form of God is Sri Krishna and His Eternal Divine Love Power, Sri Radharani. Sri Krishna worships Sri Radharani, so since Sri Krishna is the Supreme God and Sri Radharani is what the Supreme God worships, Sri Radharani is the Absolute manifistation of Divine Love - the highest of heights.

But again, since each form of God is absolute and I am sure you are all devotees of Lord Jesus, I’m sure you wont accept what I am saying.

My motivation in starting this thread is to maybe help plant a seed so that the devotees of Lord Jesus would stop being so rigid and harsh and causing so much strife in the world. But again, that probably won’t happen because Lord Jesus said Himself that he came to cause strife and division. That doesn’t seem very loving to me.

Chrisitanity is a path that had itsvery start in an act of the most unprecedented violence. We can’t excpect it to not be violent itself. Same with Judaism, look what a violent and blood thirsty form of God they are devotees of…all the animal sacrifices. At least Lord Jesus put an end to that!

 

[Neil_LA]

As stated before, there can be truth in other religions; just that** Catholicism has the full truth**. .

Once again, another example of Catholic arrogence in making a statement that isn’t supported by anything else other than itself.

If you can say that, I can say that Lord Krishna is the true God and Jesus is a pretender.

How do you know he rose from the dead? You just take other’s word…Trust…

I don’t believe Jesus was a pretender. I just don’t see any problem with contridiction like all of you seem to.

The Bible and the Catholic Church are FULL of contradictions!!!

Sheesh!!! Look to the plank in your own eye before looking to the speck in your brother’s eye.

Jesus was humble and meek. Saying that the Catholic Church is full and everything else is empty or mostly empty is neither humble nor meek.

Why can’t “fullness” exist everywhere at once? Once again you seem to be putting limits on God.

This conversation is getting very repetative!

 

[DCD]

I want to make sure I understand you correctly. You claim to believe in GOD. Yet animal sacrifices by the Hebrews is scandolus to you?

Peace,
DCD

 

[Neil_LA]

I want to make sure I understand you correctly. You claim to believe in GOD. Yet animal sacrifices by the Hebrews is scandolus to you?

Peace,
DCD

Yes…I thought God said not to kill…I think killing of animals is evil…

 

[po18guy]

Um…that seems to be avoiding the question. How do you KNOW?

I believe that Hindu worship and faith is more meaningful and more of a direct way of talking with God than Catholic worship.

How can you convince me otherwise? Come on…If you REALLY know that the Catholic Chuch is the TRUTH you must have a reason. What is the reason that the Catholic Church is the Absolute Truth?

The Real Presence of Jesus Christ in the Tabernacle. The blood of the martyrs. He was wiling to die for us. They were willing to die for him. He is the truth. They gave their lives for the revealed truth.

Eastern mysticism in all of its forms is very attractive. It tends to emphasize the self, whereas Christianity emphasizes the denial of self for a greater, unseen good.

However, you realize that nothing anyone on earth says to you, no matter how cogent the argument, will convince your heart. Only the Holy Spirit does that.

The best advice I can give you at your point of spirituality is to constantly question and seek the truth.

Peace be to you.

 

[DCD]

Yes…I thought God said not to kill…I think killing of animals is evil…

In what sense? Are you a vegeterian?

God Bless,
DCD

 

[IvanKaramozov]

keep in mind also that most of the great world religions hold core beliefs that are contradictory to each other, making a position of religious relativism (if that is indeed what you are proposing or sympathetic to) problematic. to quote from page 14 of Michael Green’s book “But Don’t All Religions Lead to God?” (published by Baker Books in 2002):

*This sort of syncretism (blending the different religions together to create a composite picture of god) is very attractive, but it will not do. Why not?

First, because if you ask the actual worshipers within different faiths whether all religions are the same, you will get an emphatic denial. They know very well that Christians are different from Muslims and Hindus, and often they are so persuaded of the rightness of their own religion that they slaughter members of other religions or burn their mosques or churches … It is the academics sitting in their studies who write books saying that all religions are the same: the practitioners on the ground think differently.

Moreover, even the most cursory examination of the world religions will show that there is no way they can all be explained as the same. For one thing, they hold diametrically opposed views of what God is like. The divine in Hinduism is impersonal, though approached through countless deities and statues. The Muslim Allah is personal, with no subordinate deities and an absolute prohibition of idols or an other way of representing God. Buddhism is a religion without God, and without even a final existence. Christianity teaches that God both forgives a person and also offers supernatural aid. In Buddhism and Hinduism there is no forgiveness, only ruthless karma*, and no supernatural aid.

And what, according to the different religions, is the goal of our lives? Where are we heading after this life on earth? The goal of all existence in Buddhism is nirvana, extinction or “the complete cessation of both desire and personality” - attained by the Buddha after no less than 547 births. Muslims look forward to a sensual paradise with wine, women and song. The goal of all existence in Christianity is to know God and enjoy Him forever in the company of His redeemed people. So, what the religions teach differs enormously.

Simply because they differ dosen’t mean they arn’t all paths to God.

This stark either/or scinario presuppose that one religion is absolutly true in all respects, that it is the absolute correct option, in that case

p&-p

p=Absolutly true religion
-p=Any religion not p

is absolutly true and only one religion is the right path, if no religion is absolutly true, or all reflect that same truth differently then the contradiction ceases to be a contradiction.

 

[The_GreyPilgrim]

The Bible and the Catholic Church are FULL of contradictions!!!

This begs the question where are these supposed contradictions that you claim the Bible AND the Church are full of?

Although many in the flock fail to live up to their Master’s example does not negate the Master nor His message.

Where is your factual and historical evidence that proves that the Church is just another human insititution?

How do you know he rose from the dead? You just take other’s word…Trust…

How do you know that a dog is a dog?

How do you know that the Holocaust happened?

Almost everything we know as humans is based on information that is fiduciary-based in faith.

When you read a newspaper or a textbook the information you take from it is faith based-you’re putting your trust in the person who is telling the story and you are accepting that what that person is saying is true.

The difference between the newspaper and the Bible is the source: God who is the Source and who is Truth Himself cannot lie.

The events of the life of Jesus of Nazareth, the instructions that He gave to those who followed Him, and the witness that they bore to His resurrection are no different.

Jesus was humble and meek. Saying that the Catholic Church is full and everything else is empty or mostly empty is neither humble nor meek.

Why can’t “fullness” exist everywhere at once? Once again you seem to be putting limits on God.

One: I beg your pardon but YOU are implying that “everything else is empty or mostly empty.”

When we say that the Catholic Church has the fullness of Truth does not limit nor negate other areas or ideas where truth exists. We are saying that while other traditions- because we believe that God has written His law on the hearts of all, and it is only that because of man’s failure of intellect, weakness of will, hardening of his heart, and tendency to follow his own passions, that man cannot see or understand fully what God wants-may possess certain seeds of truth, and some more than others, that because God definitively revealed HImself in the person of His Son to those men who formed the Catholic Church.

To not mention this would to us mean that what we are giving you is a lie. To not inform you or anyone else of the Truth would in our eyes be a failure on our part to love you as He loves us.

Two: Of course “fullness”, by “fullness” I guess you mean God, can exist everywhere at once. By “fullness” or “presence” we have never negated other types of “fullness” or “presence”.

My question to you is by what authority do you hold that what you believe to be the “fullness” of truth?

 

[living_water]

You don’t see anything beautiful about an Avatar?

Do I see anything beautiful about an Avatar. Hmm. Considering my hippie parents followed an Avatar named Meher Baba when I was a baby in the early-mid seventies, I would have to say I certainly understand Eastern mysticism. The draw is- as you say-the beauty of wisdom and the removal of the concept of sin/redemption from spiritual language.

I asked you before if wisdom can save you. That’s the question I will put before you as you begin this journey into Hinduism, as this is what you have embraced, and you are not here to truly contemplate the differences between Christianity and Hinduism. As you move forward, keep this question in your mind. What does it mean to be whole spiritually and at peace spiritually, and can you accomplish those things through wisdom alone?

I will also ask if you are willing to endure the burden of your karma. Once again, this is what you are embracing. You have decided you are strong enough and good enough and intelligent enough to live your karma. May your road to the place where karma is overcome be smooth.

And lastly, I will ask you a third time, because you have not answered me. Why did they crucify Jesus? Why? What did he reveal in the hearts of men? Just remember the question as you embrace this spiritual path.

As for beauty, it is an interesting thing. When I was at a very low point in my life, and I was on the spiritual path that you were on, I thought about the cruelty of life, and about beauty, and the lack of it in my life. I was never Catholic, and yet in my heart I suddenly felt the presence of our Blessed Mother. She spoke to my mind and my heart with a quiet voice and showed me an image of Mother Teresa. This, she said, is the greatest beauty in the world. This is how I began the journey to the Catholic church.

What is beauty? I think Jesus touching the lepers and healing them is great, profound beauty. I think the humility of a man who created the universe and yet wore rags and had no home is great beauty.

But we differ in our tastes. Good luck to you.

 

[LDNCatholic]

'Hinduism" is a misnomer. The vedic religion is actually called Sanatana Dharma - Eternal truth.

Sanatana Dharma is vast and all encompasing…there is no such thing as “mainstream” Hinduism.

Please clarify what you mean and I will gladly help.

By Mainstream Hinduism I meant the collection of beliefs that are followed in India by those of the Hindu religion, and also by members of the worldwide Indian diaspora.

Again I realise that there are vast differences in the Hinduism as followed by Tamils when compared to the Hinduism of say, Gujuratis or Punjabis, but this seems entirely unlike those.

 

[LDNCatholic]

Yes…I thought God said not to kill…I think killing of animals is evil…

Certain followers of Kali would disagree with you.

 

[LDNCatholic]

The Bible and the Catholic Church are FULL of contradictions!!!

Lets have them then mate, otherwise your first sentence becomes applicable to you:

Once again, another example of ***Hindu ***arrogence in making a statement that isn’t supported by anything else other than itself.

 

[Neil_LA]

In what sense? Are you a vegeterian?

God Bless,
DCD

Yes…vegetarianism is a primary tenent of Sanatana Dharma.

Violence and killing is an obstacle to spiritual growth.

 

[LDNCatholic]

Yes…vegetarianism is a primary tenent of Sanatana Dharma.

Violence and killing is an obstacle to spiritual growth.

Is that Vegetarianism in the strictest Vedic sense, as followed by the Jain sect?

 

[Neil_LA]

Lets have them then mate, otherwise your first sentence becomes applicable to you:

Ok…related to previous posts.

Isn’t one of the 10 commandment: thou shall not kill?

And yet the Bible is chock full of “God’s chosen people” killing HUGE numbers of people, not to mention uncountable numbers of innocent animals.

“Thou shalt not kill.” Exodus 20:13

“Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.” Psalm 137:9

Wow! That sounds like infanticide to me…that’s heavy duty. I could never follow a form of God that says that kind of thing.

 

[Neil_LA]

Is that Vegetarianism in the strictest Vedic sense, as followed by the Jain sect?

Jainism is a separate relgion…

Anyway…I’m not sure what you mean “strictest Vedic sense.”
Not killing is not killing…period.
No meat, fish or eggs…

 

[LDNCatholic]

Jainism is a separate relgion…

Anyway…I’m not sure what you mean “strictest Vedic sense.”
Not killing is not killing…period.
No meat, fish or eggs…

Jainism is a Vedic religion to the best of my knowledge. And as Hinduism is merely the Western name given to the various ancient philosophical and theological traditions originating in South Asia I believe it is appropriate to address Jainism alongside Hindu thought. Their vegetarianism is restricted to only fruit and vegetables which are not killed in the picking (no potatoes or carrots).

And as for your ‘‘Thou shalt not kill’’, that is a woefully innacurate translation. The word there is murder.