Not Convinced

[Neil_LA]

Jainism is a Vedic religion to the best of my knowledge. And as Hinduism is merely the Western name given to the various ancient philosophical and theological traditions originating in South Asia I believe it is appropriate to address Jainism alongside Hindu thought. Their vegetarianism is restricted to only fruit and vegetables which are not killed in the picking (no potatoes or carrots).

And as for your ‘‘Thou shalt not kill’’, that is a woefully innacurate translation. The word there is murder.

Oh…ok…killing children is murder as well…so is killing Amorites, Perezites, Hittites, Jebusites, Philistines, Og King of Bashan, etc…I think that the “chosen people” and Catholics have murdered uncountable people over the years…seem rather inconsistant…

I’m not as extreme as the Jains are…I eat potatoes and carrots.

 

[LDNCatholic]

Oh…ok…killing children is murder as well…so is killing Amorites, Perezites, Hittites, Jebusites, Philistines, Og King of Bashan, etc…I think that the “chosen people” and Catholics have murdered uncountable people over the years…seem rather inconsistant…

I’m not as extreme as the Jains are…I eat potatoes and carrots.

Hindus have murdered too. The fact is there that if the religion is followed, Catholics do not murder. If the religion is followed Hindus are permitted to kill in some cases(unless your interpretation does not allow for the caste system).

I do not claim to be a Biblical scholar, however YHWH never claimed to play nice. There are some unnattractive stories in the Bible, however, with study, I have faith it will become clear. If not, there’s always Sikhism

 

[Lion_of_Narnia]

I’m surprised that a Catholic would take a sola-scriptura approach to the Indic traditions. Devotion to Krishna need not be based on a literalistic reading of any Hindu text. Indeed, it’s the living example of the Sat-Guru, the Jivanmukta, or the Paramahansa who verify the reality that Avatars such as Krishna or Rama embody.

I’m quite aware of many Hindu scholars having the “fall back position” that the events in the Vedic texts do not have to have happened to be spiritually valid. In doing so they abandon any verification of the validity of these spiritual truths from anything outside the texts. In other words, these “spiritual truths” of karma, reincarnation, atman, etc are just assertions–unsupported assertions.

Christianity doesnt have that luxury. Christ lived, died and was resurrected and it matters more than anything else–or else He didnt and nothing in the New Testament matters

 

[Neil_LA]

Hindus have murdered too. The fact is there that if the religion is followed, Catholics do not murder. If the religion is followed Hindus are permitted to kill in some cases(unless your interpretation does not allow for the caste system).

I do not claim to be a Biblical scholar, however YHWH never claimed to play nice. There are some unnattractive stories in the Bible, however, with study, I have faith it will become clear. If not, there’s always Sikhism

Fair points.

I guess I want to bring back the conversation to my original point.

I don’t understand why Catholics (and other Christians) arrogantly persist in saying that the “fullness of truth” is found only in their respective sects.

Everybody says their sect has the fullness of truth. Isn’t that funny?

Maybe the fullness of truth is within all sects and traditions.

 

[LDNCatholic]

Fair points.

I guess I want to bring back the conversation to my original point.

I don’t understand why Catholics (and other Christians) arrogantly persist in saying that the “fullness of truth” is found only in their respective sects.

Everybody says their sect has the fullness of truth. Isn’t that funny?

Yeah, equally arrogantly. For example your belief system ‘‘Sanata Dharma’’ has arrogantly been named ‘‘Eternal Truth’’.

We don’t go around calling ourselves Thruth-itarians

 

[Neil_LA]

Yeah, equally arrogantly. For example your belief system ‘‘Sanata Dharma’’ has arrogantly been named ‘‘Eternal Truth’’.

We don’t go around calling ourselves Thruth-itarians

Well actually…the Vedas have no starting point. They ARE eternal.

Judeo-Christian traditions do have a starting point. Therefore they are NOT eternal.

 

[LDNCatholic]

Well actually…the Vedas have no starting point. They ARE eternal.

Judeo-Christian traditions do have a starting point. Therefore they are NOT eternal.

You believe they are eternal. History has taught me they only go back as far as Man, the oral tradition and the written word.

 

[Neil_LA]

You believe they are eternal. History has taught me they only go back as far as Man, the oral tradition and the written word.

Just as you take your scriptures at their word, I take my scriptures at their word. Who is to say that science at one point won’t vindicate the Vedic cosmic time frame?

 

[DCD]

Yes…vegetarianism is a primary tenent of Sanatana Dharma.

Violence and killing is an obstacle to spiritual growth.

God has given man dominion over all the animals. So killing animals to provide for mans needs could in no way be an obstacle to spiritual growth.

Pece,
DCD

 

[LDNCatholic]

Just as you take your scriptures at their word, I take my scriptures at their word. Who is to say that science at one point won’t vindicate the Vedic cosmic time frame?

Didn’t you accuse me of ignorance because I took scripture at it’s word?

Besides, end of the day, I follow Catholicism. If I don’t follow Hinduism and it turns out to be true, what does that mean? My Samsara takes a couple extra turns before I reach Moksha? I think I could deal with that.

 

[Ahimsa]

Do I see anything beautiful about an Avatar. Hmm. Considering my hippie parents followed an Avatar named Meher Baba when I was a baby in the early-mid seventies, I would have to say I certainly understand Eastern mysticism. The draw is- as you say-the beauty of wisdom and the removal of the concept of sin/redemption from spiritual language.

I think you have me confused with Neil LA.

Do your parents still follow Meher Baba?

 

[Ahimsa]

Is that Vegetarianism in the strictest Vedic sense, as followed by the Jain sect?

Jainism isn’t Vedic. That is, Jains do not see the Vedas as sacred scripture, because the Vedas were not written by the Tirthankaras. However, the Jains do believe that the Vedas contain wisdom derived from the Tirthankaras, and that the Vedas even mention several Tirthankaras.

In fact, the Jains claim that the Jainism existed before the Vedas.

 

[LDNCatholic]

Jainism isn’t Vedic. That is, Jains do not see the Vedas as sacred scripture, because the Vedas were not written by the Tirthankaras. However, the Jains do believe that the Vedas contain wisdom derived from the Tirthankaras, and that the Vedas even mention several Tirthankaras.

In fact, the Jains claim that the Jainism existed before the Vedas.

Ah my mistake. Sorry I made an assumption there.

 

[Ahimsa]

I’m quite aware of many Hindu scholars having the “fall back position” that the events in the Vedic texts do not have to have happened to be spiritually valid. In doing so they abandon any verification of the validity of these spiritual truths from anything outside the texts. In other words, these “spiritual truths” of karma, reincarnation, atman, etc are just assertions–unsupported assertions.

Christianity doesnt have that luxury. Christ lived, died and was resurrected and it matters more than anything else–or else He didnt and nothing in the New Testament matters

I think it would be more accurate to say that not just some Hindu “scholars” but some actual Hindu God-Realizers say that the processes described in the Vedas have a historical side, but the primary function of the Vedas is the communication of Truth, Reality, God.

The verification of the Vedas occurs when one practices what the Vedas teach.

 

[Ahimsa]

Didn’t you accuse me of ignorance because I took scripture at it’s word?

Besides, end of the day, I follow Catholicism. If I don’t follow Hinduism and it turns out to be true, what does that mean? My Samsara takes a couple extra turns before I reach Moksha? I think I could deal with that.

Many Hindus would say that if you follow Catholicism, then you need not return to samsara, and that Christianity can be a path to moksha.

 

[LDNCatholic]

Many Hindus would say that if you follow Catholicism, then you need not return to samsara, and that Christianity can be a path to moksha.

Well then I’m in the clear . Unless the Muslims turn out to be right

 

[Gabriel_of_12]

Um…that seems to be avoiding the question. How do you KNOW?

I believe that Hindu worship and faith is more meaningful and more of a direct way of talking with God than Catholic worship.

How can you convince me otherwise? Come on…If you REALLY know that the Catholic Chuch is the TRUTH you must have a reason. What is the reason that the Catholic Church is the Absolute Truth?

Because all Christians believe that in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God. And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us. The Word of God is the truth the way and the life.Jesus is the life and the Truth. The reason you asked is because the Word of God say’s that Jesus is the Truth and nobody goes to the Father except through him. The Roman Catholic church was instituted by Jesus himself the Word of God made flesh. On the “Rock” of St. Peter, to which all the apostles and early church fathers and successors of the apostles and martyrs have attested to this fact.

Secondly, The creator is believed in by many cultures and peoples. The Word of God made flesh has revealed the mystery of God to humanity and built his Church upon Peter (Kephas) in order for his body on earth the Roman Catholic church has been given the command to go out and baptise, teach and feed every tongue and nation what Jesus has revealed to the Catholic church. This is the mission of the Roman Catholic church. And many a Pope, Bishops, and Catholilc christian have layed down their lives for this testament, not with anger, not with strife, not for the purpose of self gain, but for the Truth to be revealed in his body on earth the Roman Catholic church so as to proclaim Jesus lives. This Jesus the Word of God resurrected will come soon for his bride the Catholic church.

Thirdly, man has always sought out God the creator , In many ways by sacrificial victims, through nature, through mans own intelligence. But these although seek the creator and God knows his creation. That is why by his love and mercy, God sent his only begotten Son Jesus to bring back to the True worship and to come to the revealed mystery of the Father through his Son Jesus Christ. God has granted man his mercy through his Son to reconcile humanity to himself.

This is why when Jesus was crucified he went down to sheol to preach to the prisoners of death, and set the captives free. Jesus now resurrected who lives in his body on earth the Roman Catholic church issues the command for the living to repent and b e baptised in the revealed name Father,Son and Holy Spirit. And as new created Children of the living God, in order to have eternal life, those his children must eat his body and drink his blood in order to have eternal life, that is why death has lost its sting to the baptised children of God.

This is the Fullness of Truth proclaimed for the last 2000 years with the testimonies, witnesses, and martyrs that have lived who seen and witnessed with their own eyes and lives that Jesus is the Truth and the life.

When one from other religions learn of this Truth, they will find that through the blessed Trinity, their way of worship and religion is fulfilled in the Sacraments that Jesus instituted in his Catholic church. This is the fullness of Truth revealed in the Roman Catholic church. For when one comes to meet our creator in the sacrificial body,blood, soul and divinity of our Lord Jesus Christ. The thirst for God is made full and yet overfilleth the soul, that one does not thirst anymore. One is made perfect before God who consumes the body and blood of Jesus christ in the blessed Sacrament of the Eucahrist.

The mercy of God is this, seek him and you will find him, knock and the door will be opened.

Peace be with you

 

[Neil_LA]

God has given man dominion over all the animals. So killing animals to provide for mans needs could in no way be an obstacle to spiritual growth.

Pece,
DCD

That’s what YOUR scriptures say…Not what MY scriptures say.

In fact, it seems to me that God wanted people to be vegatarian according to the Bible:

And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat
Genesis 1:29

Doesn’t sound to ME that God is telling Adam and Eve to eat animals…

 

[LDNCatholic]

That’s what YOUR scriptures say…Not what MY scriptures say.

In fact, it seems to me that God wanted people to be vegatarian according to the Bible:

And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat
Genesis 1:29

Doesn’t sound to ME that God is telling Adam and Eve to eat animals…

Read what happened after the flood. God gave Noah and his family permission to eat animal flesh, whereas before it wasn’t done.

 

[Ahimsa]

That’s what YOUR scriptures say…Not what MY scriptures say.

In fact, it seems to me that God wanted people to be vegatarian according to the Bible:

And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat
Genesis 1:29

Doesn’t sound to ME that God is telling Adam and Eve to eat animals…

Yes, vegetarianism is God’s original plan for mankind. Many Jews are vegetarian for that reason.

But we humans are imperfect, so God has to “modify” his original plan now and then.