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corsair
Guest
I’ll just bag the OF and stick with the EF, That way I don’t have to involve myself with this “controversy” any more.
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Vince1022
Guest
I am sorry, I don’t understand. My pastor showed me the “GIRM” (I think that’s how it’s called) and it clearly indicates that those of us in the U.S. are allowed to receive either in the hand or on the tongue. Are you saying that is not right? I mean, as I understand it, what the Vatican approved for us in the U.S. is the option to receive either way. I don’t need any other hoops to jump through, do I, to legimately receive communion in the hand? Thanks for any help.
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choy
Guest
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choy
Guest
again, another false assumption
there’s no spiritual benefits to be gained. the spiritual benefits are just the same as COTT. because the spiritual benefits doesn’t come from COTT or CITH, but from receiving the Eucharist
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Layman
Guest
Sure it is. In the N.O. masses in four different dioceses across two countries which I’ve been to, it’s the de-facto norm, whatever the GIRM or Rome says. “Stand and stick out your hand”.
Crazy, really, to change to this, when you consider the Matter involved.
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Layman
Guest
Heh, heh, so:
Deliberately changing to standing up to receive your God,
From the hands of a laywoman,
Into your hand,
from …
Kneeling and receiving on the tongue, from a consecrated priest (a physical act of reverence in a public rite of worship towards the physical Presence of your God, especially at a time when pride and self-centredness are lauded as worthy traits in the wider society) …
is just as good for you spiritually?
We lost a chance to show humility before Jesus and beat down our own Pride, chief of all to Deadly Sins. And I could care two beans about what other attendees are feeling, internally. I can’t see that. It can’t influence me. I can only see what’s occuring outwardly. And the difference between the average TLM and average N.O. is pronounced.
What’s the point of going to a public, ordered, mystical ritual, to have an encounter with the Divine, if it’s slowly turning into a recital where the participants are more and more to the fore and doing ‘turns’?
It’s become a terrible thing for a mystical rite to be: mundane.
Recently went to a sung TLM where I realised why Peter said on Mount Tabor “Lord, it is good for us to be here”, when Jesus revealed more of his true Nature to them: they wanted to stay and never leave.
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AlanFromWichita
Guest
Why don’t we lie prone before the Eucharist for an hour before receiving it? Would that not be even more respectable? When is enough, enough? If the theory is not to miss an opportunity to show respect and humiliate ourselves, we can do that in excess even to the exclusion of ever getting to reach the Sacrament. Maybe we can fast for 40 days while lying prone; that would even make us more worthy, right? Uhh, then again maybe it doesn’t work that way. Maybe we can go through respectful and self-diminishing behavior until the cows come home and we are no more worthy anyway except through the love of Jesus.
A respectful sign, such as a deep bow. A respectful sign, such as kneeling. A respectful sign, such as lying prone. How about a respectful sign, such as working on our internals until the point we no longer have a desire to negatively judge others’ externals? Not saying that’s a “good thing,” just thinkin’ out loud … “what if?”
Alan
A respectful sign, such as a deep bow. A respectful sign, such as kneeling. A respectful sign, such as lying prone. How about a respectful sign, such as working on our internals until the point we no longer have a desire to negatively judge others’ externals? Not saying that’s a “good thing,” just thinkin’ out loud … “what if?”
Alan
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AlanFromWichita
Guest
How can we “earn” our worthiness to receive Communion? How many gestures do we need until God goes from being displeased at our unworthiness to pleased at our worthiness?
If it doesn’t work that way, then how can we say that one method of receiving is “spiritually” better than another. Emotionally, maybe. Spiritually? Maybe not.
How many man-made rules must we follow, until we “earn” our way into heaven? (Or does it not work that way, spiritually?)
And thank you, for starting a “not just another CITH thread.”
Alan
If it doesn’t work that way, then how can we say that one method of receiving is “spiritually” better than another. Emotionally, maybe. Spiritually? Maybe not.
How many man-made rules must we follow, until we “earn” our way into heaven? (Or does it not work that way, spiritually?)
And thank you, for starting a “not just another CITH thread.”
Alan
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Layman
Guest
Heh. Again, argument by exaggerating your opponent’s position. Nothing we can do is truly enough. We can only do our best. The problem is that we are doing less and less.
Changing over to CITH is just one more mundane addition to a rite gaining more and more mundane additions and subtractions as the years go by.
Work on our internals? My guts are fine. I want to go to a Holy Mass.
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paperwight
Guest
I’d just like to say, Alan, what a brilliant post that was. I agree with every word.
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AlanFromWichita
Guest
Yes, I like to examine validity of ostensible “absolute” logic by taking it to extremes.
Would you say, then, that your greatest concern is that further changes may drive behavior farther away from the COTT procedures?
Nice. I do, too. In fact, I get to go play piano for Mass in just over an hour, so just for you I’ll play “Holy, Holy, Holy, Lord God Almighty” before Mass – I don’t get to choose the hymns but if I play it before Mass maybe it’ll set the stage.
Alan
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momor
Guest
You could care two beans about what other people are feeling internally but you care a whole lot about what they are doing. Please explain the Christian principle(s) upon which you base your comments.
I don’t know what you ‘feel’ internally but I can state that what you are saying has the ‘outward appearance’ to me of the same thing that Jesus accused the Pharisees of ‘doing’.
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Layman
Guest
It’s simple, really. I’m not psychic. The people around me could internally be saints or sinners. How do I know? I want to attend a rite where everything possible is done outwardly to help me to sanctification. And changing over from COTT to CITH ain’t helping.
And once again, the regular recurrence of the Pharisee remark in the Traditional Catholicism sub-forum.
To Alan: A piano at Mass? I’m already out of the room, mate. Get an organ!
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AlanFromWichita
Guest
We have one, but it doesn’t get much use. I used to play it at our parish and one other parish, but when I got really sick I got so bad at organ I lost the job at the other parish and am lucky to have stayed on piano. I am trying to get back into it, though… At Christmas I got brave and played Joy to the World reasonably well (good enough to fool the non-musicians anyway).
You are right, though. I need to step up to the task. I will start practicing more. Maybe I’ll play at least the Mass parts, if not the (sometimes yucky) hymns on it.
Alan
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momor
Guest
So are you saying the Mass is about you and what you can get out of it?
If an observation is made often there just might be some merit to it.
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estesbob
Guest
If you heard my wife play Piano at Mass you’d never want the organ again
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ProVobis
Guest
How about a “respectful” one, such as “just give it to me right here in the hand, Lord. I don’t need you to feed me, I can do it myself.”
Isn’t that what you’re essentially saying when offered the option of either CITH or COTT?
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ProVobis
Guest
No offense to your wife but no thanks, I’ll take the organ at Mass. But I’ll gladly listen to her play outside of church.
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MarkThompson
Guest
Did Jesus feed the five thousand with loaves and fishes? Yes.How about a “respectful” one, such as “just give it to me right here in the hand, Lord. I don’t need you to feed me, I can do it myself.”
Isn’t that what you’re essentially saying when offered the option of either CITH or COTT?
Did Jesus personally shove the food into their mouths? No, I don’t think so.
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estesbob
Guest
Good point. I always stick my tongue out at someone as a sign of respect…How about a “respectful” one, such as “just give it to me right here in the hand, Lord. I don’t need you to feed me, I can do it myself.”
Isn’t that what you’re essentially saying when offered the option of either CITH or COTT?
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