Not the same God?

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And they reject the Triune God…so they are not worshipping the God of Abraham.
It seems the blind will remain blind until they discide to use their ‘free will’ to ‘not judge lest you be judged’…and open their ears to the loving voice of the Holy Spirit who proceedth from & with the son from the Father THE ONE GOD. With your reasoning Mickey, the Jews were worshiping a false god until Jesus came. This is NOT true. THINK! about it…
 
A valid marriage, perhaps. But one that is unconsummated.

Would you like to be in a marriage like that? Especially when it’s entirely possible for you to enjoy the marital embrace if you only made it covenantal?
I believe the covenants with God are made in the HEART.
 
If I may, the defining characteristics would be of course the Trinity? Correct?
No, actually in my earlier offering (see Post #838) the trinitarian nature of God is not something to which I alluded. Rather, I made reference to a number of Biblical characteristics that, I suppose, Jews also would recognize as legitimate descriptions of the God of Abraham.

When it comes to the Jewish people, there are some obvious conflicts. They are still looking for the Messiah, and I think it will be an amazing experience when Jesus comes as the Conquering King that they’ve been expecting for so long, and they discover He’s been here before!

Paul was pretty clear that Christianity is no new religion, but the natural development of the ancient Judaic faith, prophesied from ancient times … a New Covenant relationship with God that replaces the Old Covenant.
 
Wow, so then it would be fair for me to assume you are saying there are 2 Gods of Abraham.
Not at all. I contend there is one, true God, known to us by many names but including “the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob” (one of the ways He identified Himself in Scripture). The object of Muslim worship is, however, no god at all, but one of two things: either the pure figment of a 7th-century soldier’s imagination, or the result of an actual series of visitations – not of God’s messenger, Gabriel, as Mohammad was led to believe, but an impersonating demonic force having satanic power to deceive people and lead them away from God.

Mohammad hoped Jews and Christians, as “People of the Book”, would join his campaign. Claiming that he, too, worshipped “the God of Abraham” was a necessary element of persuasion, without a shred of truth. The deception has continued.
 
Jews - no
Sikhs - I do not know enough about their beliefs to comment either way
other monotheists - too general to know. Which other monotheists?
 
I have to ask this, Only because I truly do not know the answer to this. This is how we learn!😃

Okat here is the question, is this the teaching of your Church?
Sorry, rinnie, I cannot answer your question, because – now attending church in North America – the topic of the object of Muslim worship has not come up for discussion, so far as I am aware. Not being confronted with the issue, perhaps there is no official teaching on this subject.
 
I suppose I will not be allowed to bow out of this thread in peace. I suppose I will have defend myself from accusations of blindness and deafness until the thread reaches 1000 and is closed down. Good enough.
It seems the blind will remain blind until they discide to use their ‘free will’ to ‘not judge lest you be judged’…and open their ears to the loving voice of the Holy Spirit who proceedth from & with the son from the Father THE ONE GOD.
The one God is the Holy Trinity. The God of Abraham is the Trinitarian God. The Muslims do not worship the Trinitarian God.

illusion buster;8934640With your reasoning Mickey said:
There are numerous instances where God the Son and God the Holy Spirit were revealed in the Old Testament. When the Word was made flesh, the Jews rejected Him. Today, the Jews do not recognize Christ…they do not worship the Triune God.
 
I suppose I will not be allowed to bow out of this thread in peace. I suppose I will have defend myself from accusations of blindness and deafness until the thread reaches 1000 and is closed down.
Mickey!

Just when we thought you were out, they pulled you back in!

1,000 posts or bust!
 
Perhaps another approach …

Pretty clear by now what we disagree on.

Have we agreed on anything?

I would say that it would likely be conceded at this point that Christians, Jews and Muslims are monotheists (provided I didn’t miss any Muslim contributors who may be challenged w/r/t the Triune God) . Agreed?
 
Perhaps another approach …

Pretty clear by now what we disagree on.

Have we agreed on anything?

I would say that it would likely be conceded at this point that Christians, Jews and Muslims are monotheists (provided I didn’t miss any Muslim contributors who may be challenged w/r/t the Triune God) . Agreed?
I find it interesting that I have not seen one Muslim poster in multiple threads on this subject covering thousands of posts…who say that they agree that the god they worship, is the same as the God of the Christians.
 
I suppose I will not be allowed to bow out of this thread in peace.
LOL!

When someone bows out of a thread he leaves and does not come back to check whether his name has been mentioned after he has left.

Otherwise, that’s not called bowing out. :o
 
I find it interesting that I have not seen one Muslim poster in multiple threads on this subject covering thousands of posts…who say that they agree that the god they worship, is the same as the God of the Christians.
I haven’t seen them around much at all. I guess with the slaughter taking place in the middle east its hard to promote Love and Peace in God?
 
Perhaps another approach …

Pretty clear by now what we disagree on.

Have we agreed on anything?

I would say that it would likely be conceded at this point that Christians, Jews and Muslims are monotheists (provided I didn’t miss any Muslim contributors who may be challenged w/r/t the Triune God) . Agreed?
Sounds about right so far. 👍
 
now attending church in North America – the topic of the object of Muslim worship has not come up for discussion, so far as I am aware. Not being confronted with the issue, perhaps there is no official teaching on this subject.
The Bishop of Canterbury was at Assisi though. He gave a wonderful speech. Just Saying.

Exploring the common religious values and respecting the differences is really the only way foward.
 
I find it interesting that I have not seen one Muslim poster in multiple threads on this subject covering thousands of posts…who say that they agree that the god they worship, is the same as the God of the Christians.
I’m not surprised, Mickey … and it makes me wonder all the more why Christians are so anxious to promote this doctrine … to shove it down Muslim throats, so to speak.

It reminds me of a circumstance I have read about recently … the determination of the Episcopal Church in the USA to be so “indiscriminately inclusive” that virtually anything goes, and doctrine doesn’t matter anymore.

One of my favorite preachers has referred to this as ‘sacrificing Truth on the altar of Tolerance’. I fear many of us are all too willing to engage in that endeavor.
 
I’m not surprised, Mickey … and it makes me wonder all the more why Christians are so anxious to promote this doctrine … to shove it down Muslim throats, so to speak.

It reminds me of a circumstance I have read about recently … the determination of the Episcopal Church in the USA to be so “indiscriminately inclusive” that virtually anything goes, and doctrine doesn’t matter anymore.

One of my favorite preachers has referred to this as ‘sacrificing Truth on the altar of Tolerance’. I fear many of us are all too willing to engage in that endeavor.
Respectfully, I do not think that is the Catholic Church’s position - unrestrained tolerance, if you will. Nor do I think it would be prudent (or sane, for that matter) in this day and for a Catholic, in light of the Church’s stated position, to simply walk up to a Muslim, hug him or her and say “I love you because you and I believe in the same God! We are family!” I have yet to hear the Pope or the Magisterium take such a view or approach.

It is one thing to hold out hope, reinforced by a rational analysis which indicates elements of commonality, that reconciliation (and thus salvation) may be possible for those who have an imperfect understanding of God. Focusing on that which separates us will always keep us apart. Honest mutual recognition of that which we share in common leaves the door open for the Truth to be exposed. That is the goal, consistent with our Christian vocation.

It is another thing to say, for example that “we’re all just the same, and we’re all entitled, so it’s perfectly OK for a Muslim or anyone else for that matter to come and worship in our Church and receive the sacraments because, after all, we believe in the same God, and we’re all God’s children.” This is what has happened within churches that have suffered great harm by deviating from long-standing tradition of the church. And as soon as the priesthood is diluted, for example, its only a matter of time before everything else breaks down.

The former is an example of tolerance that both exemplifies the dignity that our Lord showed for all peoples and which is the result of honest consideration and respect for all God’s people. It is a position of strength that allows charitable dialogue and discourse instead of promoting and propagating hateful distrust, while never sacrificing the Truth.

The latter is exemplary of the model of tolerance to which you refer, which erodes the Truth within the very churches that should be promoting and preserving the Truth, as quickly as a hot knife travels through butter.

And yes, unrestrained tolerance will always erode any system of belief. By definition, religious belief is just that - adherence to a common set of truths held by many over time. The Catholic Church is no exception. One could easily argue and see that its implicit tolerance (via silence, etc.) of the behavior of certain priests in general (and specifically, in cases of child abuse) has eroded the reputation and credibility of the Church with respect to moral teaching. Yet every time, without fail, that the Church takes a firm stand against moral injustice, consistent with its teaching, the Church is attacked from all sides (and too often from within, as well).

Tolerance of others, in moderation and in light of the Truth, is not surrender of one’s belief in the Truth.
 
Sorry, rinnie, I cannot answer your question, because – now attending church in North America – the topic of the object of Muslim worship has not come up for discussion, so far as I am aware. Not being confronted with the issue, perhaps there is no official teaching on this subject.
Dear Simka,

Cordial greetings and a very good day.

When he was Archbishop of Canterbury, the late Dr. Robert Runcie, delivered the annual Sir Francis Younghusband Lecture in 1986. Whilst this could not be classified as “official teaching”, it is, nonethless, interesting to hear the views of Anglicanism’s then chief prelate. Dr. Runcie spoke of “the moments of revelation” in non-Christian religions and of “the spiritual treasures which our respective faiths have handed down to us - a spark of divine life and a vision of holiness whereby the lives of countless people in the past and present are nourished, transformed, sustained and sanctified”. Referring to the first meeting of the World *Congress of Faiths *(W.C.F.), he identified himself with Francis Younghusband’s own words :

“Religion, taken as a whole, benefited much from the variety of its different forms. All the centuries that the Spirit of God had been working in Christians, he must also have been working in Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims and others…”.

Dr. Runcie, it is quite true, denied that he was a syncretist (“I am not advocating a single-minded, synthetic model of world religion”) and he affirmed that for Christians the life, suffering, death and Resurrection of Jesus would always remain the primary source of knowledge and truth concerning God. Thus the self-giving of God in His beloved Son was “firm and fundamental” and “not negotiable”. However, he went on to declare that “other faiths reveal other aspects of God which may enrich and enlarge our Christian understanding”.

The views expressed by Dr. Runcie do not appear wholly dissimilar and chime somewhat with those those of the Catholic Church and the Second Vatican Council - “Other religions…strive variously to answer the restless strivings of the human heart by proposing ‘ways’, which consist of teachings, rules of life, and sacred ceremonies. The Catholic Church rejects nothing which is true and holy in these religions. She looks with sincere respect upon those ways of conduct and of life which…often reflect a ray of that Tru**th which enlightens all men” (Nostra Aetate). The Catholic Church, to quote the enclyclical of Pope Paul VI, “respects and esteems those non-Christian rleigions because they are the living expression of the soul of vast groups of people. They carry within in them the echo of thousands of years of searching for God, a quest which is incomplete but often made with great sincerity and righteousness of heart. They possess an impressive patrimony of deeply religious texts. They have taught generations of people how to pray. They are all impregnated with innumerable ‘seeds of the word’ and can constitute a true preparation for the Gospel, to quote the felicitous term used by the Second Vatican Councill and borrowed from Eusebius of Caesarea” (Evangelii Nuntiandi).

Granted, the views expressed by the late Dr. Runcie were his own and not those of the Anglican Church, but, in light of what he said in that lecture, I cannot imagine him denying that Allah is the same God Jews and Christians know and worship. He would have surely accepted that Islam is a Western, theistic religion, which bases itself explicitly on the historical revelation of the God of the Jews, tracing itself to Ishmael, to whom God also promised special blessings. Issac and Ishmael, Jews and Muslims, have been engaged in sibling rivalry ever since.

The theology of God the Father and the ethics of human living are essentially the same for Jews, Christians and Muslims. If that is so, then what is the missing link? What is missing is the link between the two - Christ the mediator between God and man. Mohammed and the Koran are basicly another Moses (lawgiver) and another law. Missing are grace, salvation, redemption: precisely the essential things.

God bless.

Warmest good wishes,

Portrait

Pax
 
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